Does gear use differ from car to bike in "System"?
Discussion
A question to any advanced instructors or, better still, police Class 1 riders …
How does the use of gears differ from advanced driving to advanced riding?
For example, I generally avoid brake/gear overlap in the car. Should I do precisely the same on the bike?
Also, where appropriate in the car I normally block change (to avoid the use of intermediate gears and also keep to the one gear phase in the System). What are the best approaches on a bike? What should I do differently, and what should remain the same, on the bike?
On both car and bike I am, of course, blipping the throttle suitably to match revs to engine speed.
Many thanks for any and all advice,
Mark
How does the use of gears differ from advanced driving to advanced riding?
For example, I generally avoid brake/gear overlap in the car. Should I do precisely the same on the bike?
Also, where appropriate in the car I normally block change (to avoid the use of intermediate gears and also keep to the one gear phase in the System). What are the best approaches on a bike? What should I do differently, and what should remain the same, on the bike?
On both car and bike I am, of course, blipping the throttle suitably to match revs to engine speed.
Many thanks for any and all advice,
Mark
Block shifting on a bike isn't generally a good idea as if you drop down too many, you can lock up the rear wheel. I generally let the clutch out a little, then blip the throttle and change down again.
re Brake/Gear overlap - I often use the front brake with 2/3 fingers while blipping the throttle with my thumb and forefinger and changing down the gears.
re Brake/Gear overlap - I often use the front brake with 2/3 fingers while blipping the throttle with my thumb and forefinger and changing down the gears.
While I'm not a class one rider or driver I believe the system will still appy.
You shouldn't be doing 2 things at once riding normally.
If you find you need to, it is because you haven't planned propperly in advance re the speed and gear you need by a certain point and where to start the system to acheive that. (or at least that's what I was told when I asked the same question of a friend who was doing his advanced training)
I don't see and haven't heard of a problem with block changing by itself.
If you are blipping the throttle on downshifts whilst still covering the brake, there is no need to block shift, as you can go down through the gearbox whilst still using the engine for breaking, rather than just the brakes as per the block shifting approach.
Don't forget that 'advanced riding' is often very formulaeic and prescriptive and doesn't necesserily imply perfect machine control.
Mad Dave - I think you'll find that you need to blip the throtle BEFORE letting the cltuch out. Your method will have you trying to slightly drive the bike forwards whislst dragging the clutch. this is effectively the same as slipping the clutch. Whilst it will alleviate potential problems with rear wheel lock up (which you shouldn't get if you blip the throttle quick enough). You will just place premature wear on your clutch basket & plates!
Don't forget that 'advanced riding' is often very formulaeic and prescriptive and doesn't necesserily imply perfect machine control.
Mad Dave - I think you'll find that you need to blip the throtle BEFORE letting the cltuch out. Your method will have you trying to slightly drive the bike forwards whislst dragging the clutch. this is effectively the same as slipping the clutch. Whilst it will alleviate potential problems with rear wheel lock up (which you shouldn't get if you blip the throttle quick enough). You will just place premature wear on your clutch basket & plates!
Block shifting is possible, but I never use it as the scope for an almighty cock up is wide open.
Shifting and engaging EACH gear whilst decreasing/increasing road speed will have the bike ALWAYS in the appropriate gear for the speed.
Bikes have a much wider range of RPM over cars (generally x2) so you should change gear to suit the conditions. A 4 stroke engine is generally 'happiest' half way between idle RPM and the beginning of the redline i.e. idle = 1000RPM, Redline = 11000RPM bike loves 6000RPM (+-500). Keeping the motor around this area leaves plenty up top for whooshing past obstacles, and plenty down below for adjusting your line for bends and hazards.
This is the basics, class 1 or advanced may be slightly different but I wouldn't encourage block changes on a large capacity bike at a good pace as it could all so easily go shit shaped.
A lot of the new 1000 and 600cc bikes have standard slipper clutches fitted that could reduce the risk but they aren't infallible, if you watch Chris Walker or Craig Jones they have a very aggressive MX style for taking bends which involves 100% braking whilst throwing gears at the engine in rapid succession. Looks sublime when the rear wheel struggles for traction and steps out of line making a beautiful arc as the bike tips in... But this is on lovely grippy tyres, excellent set up, smooth surface... the list goes on.
For general road use I'd just encourage blipping and shifting as the roadspeed decreases, and ensure that you're in the appropriate gear for the bend before you tip in.
Shifting and engaging EACH gear whilst decreasing/increasing road speed will have the bike ALWAYS in the appropriate gear for the speed.
Bikes have a much wider range of RPM over cars (generally x2) so you should change gear to suit the conditions. A 4 stroke engine is generally 'happiest' half way between idle RPM and the beginning of the redline i.e. idle = 1000RPM, Redline = 11000RPM bike loves 6000RPM (+-500). Keeping the motor around this area leaves plenty up top for whooshing past obstacles, and plenty down below for adjusting your line for bends and hazards.
This is the basics, class 1 or advanced may be slightly different but I wouldn't encourage block changes on a large capacity bike at a good pace as it could all so easily go shit shaped.
A lot of the new 1000 and 600cc bikes have standard slipper clutches fitted that could reduce the risk but they aren't infallible, if you watch Chris Walker or Craig Jones they have a very aggressive MX style for taking bends which involves 100% braking whilst throwing gears at the engine in rapid succession. Looks sublime when the rear wheel struggles for traction and steps out of line making a beautiful arc as the bike tips in... But this is on lovely grippy tyres, excellent set up, smooth surface... the list goes on.
For general road use I'd just encourage blipping and shifting as the roadspeed decreases, and ensure that you're in the appropriate gear for the bend before you tip in.
Thanks everyone! Rsvmille's post reminded me to check Motorcycle Roadcraft, and compare it to (car) Roadcraft. Not surprisingly, the braking and gear changing sections are different. Also, Motorcycle Roadcraft was very flexible in its approach, citing both methods of gear changing as perfectly OK.
Some IAM Observers and their ilk can occasionally be formulaic and prescriptive. (Although thankfully my own experience of them has been very good.) However, a deep and proper understanding of advanced driving/riding is more flexible and involves excellent machine control. Hence why I was hoping police Class 1 would be able to answer my query, as opposed to a regular Observer.
Cheers,
Mark
fergus said:
Don't forget that 'advanced riding' is often very formulaeic and prescriptive and doesn't necesserily imply perfect machine control.
Some IAM Observers and their ilk can occasionally be formulaic and prescriptive. (Although thankfully my own experience of them has been very good.) However, a deep and proper understanding of advanced driving/riding is more flexible and involves excellent machine control. Hence why I was hoping police Class 1 would be able to answer my query, as opposed to a regular Observer.
Cheers,
Mark
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