How much do you hang off when riding on the road?
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I've just got back from Mallory Park with the Suzuki school. It's improved my body positioning no end. However, I'm left wondering how appropriate that is for the road. Hanging off is hardly a discrete way of riding. Nevertheless, I guess it does put more tyre footprint on the road for a given speed.
What do you do?
I've just got back from Mallory Park with the Suzuki school. It's improved my body positioning no end. However, I'm left wondering how appropriate that is for the road. Hanging off is hardly a discrete way of riding. Nevertheless, I guess it does put more tyre footprint on the road for a given speed.
What do you do?
Mark_SV said:
Hi everyone,
I've just got back from Mallory Park with the Suzuki school. It's improved my body positioning no end. However, I'm left wondering how appropriate that is for the road. Hanging off is hardly a discrete way of riding. Nevertheless, I guess it does put more tyre footprint on the road for a given speed.
What do you do?
It is important to shift your bodyweight around, but there's no need to hang off to any great degree on the road.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Hi everyone,
I've just got back from Mallory Park with the Suzuki school. It's improved my body positioning no end. However, I'm left wondering how appropriate that is for the road. Hanging off is hardly a discrete way of riding. Nevertheless, I guess it does put more tyre footprint on the road for a given speed.
What do you do?
It is important to shift your bodyweight around, but there's no need to hang off to any great degree on the road.
Agreed, save that stuff for your track days.
Thanks guys. That's what I suspected, but I couldn't figure out why it was generally wrong on the road. After all, I might move my head, drop my shoulder or stick out a knee for the same reason as I might hang off. So what's the difference?
The only reason I could think of was that it may look bad to other road users.
The only reason I could think of was that it may look bad to other road users.
Proper hanging off the bike is only required for track work.. your knee goes down as a direct result of this and the extreme lean angle all of these cannot be achieved on the public road while remaining within what the police would call legal riding.
You see so many riders on the road sticking their knee out to try and get it down hanging only slightly off the bike while pretty much bolt upright on lean angle.. LOL
Thats one good reason not to do it.. you'll look like a prat! :-)
I agree that it can be part of swifter road riding to shift your weight around but no more than that!
You see so many riders on the road sticking their knee out to try and get it down hanging only slightly off the bike while pretty much bolt upright on lean angle.. LOL
Thats one good reason not to do it.. you'll look like a prat! :-)
I agree that it can be part of swifter road riding to shift your weight around but no more than that!
Hi Dude,
Hanging off a little, or more precisely shifting your weight by tucking your head down & shifting your bum off the seat will indeed help your stability & cornering (as you learned). This is not to be confused with those people who insist on riding round a slight bend in the road with knees & elbows sticking out all over the place - that just looks tw@tty!
Hanging off a little, or more precisely shifting your weight by tucking your head down & shifting your bum off the seat will indeed help your stability & cornering (as you learned). This is not to be confused with those people who insist on riding round a slight bend in the road with knees & elbows sticking out all over the place - that just looks tw@tty!
Thanks again, everyone.
Oddly, I don't have any great knee-down fetish. (I'll leave other fetishes to those on other forums
) However, it was the improved stability and cornering that sparked my question.
Between you, you've answered my question. In remaining within what the police would call legal riding, then I don't need improved stability beyond that provided by shifting my bum, moving my head and dropping my shoulder.
I had similar difficulties resolving track techniques with advanced driving in the car (especially steering and gear changes) when I first got into circuit driving. However, the odd session with www.ridedrive.co.uk provided expert and excellent solutions. It seems I'm now suffering the same mental confusion on the bike!!
Cheers all!
Oddly, I don't have any great knee-down fetish. (I'll leave other fetishes to those on other forums
) However, it was the improved stability and cornering that sparked my question. Between you, you've answered my question. In remaining within what the police would call legal riding, then I don't need improved stability beyond that provided by shifting my bum, moving my head and dropping my shoulder.
I had similar difficulties resolving track techniques with advanced driving in the car (especially steering and gear changes) when I first got into circuit driving. However, the odd session with www.ridedrive.co.uk provided expert and excellent solutions. It seems I'm now suffering the same mental confusion on the bike!!
Cheers all!
s2rr Kitty said:
Hi Dude,
Hanging off a little, or more precisely shifting your weight by tucking your head down & shifting your bum off the seat will indeed help your stability & cornering (as you learned). This is not to be confused with those people who insist on riding round a slight bend in the road with knees & elbows sticking out all over the place - that just looks tw@tty!
You don't just need to shift your bum off the seat. This is what the 'knee down monkeys' attempt to do. All that typically happens is that you then end up twisting on the bike. You need to make sure that your whole spine moves off the centre line of the bike.
Also, with the knee down merchants, check to see which part of their sliders are touching down. It is very easy to touch down the front part of the knee as it just involves sticky your knee out at a massive angle. If someone is wearing the side of the slider (i.e. in line with the side of the boot) then they're clearly laid right over!!!
Anyway, all that's best left to the track! The bext advice I'd give for the road is to relax and look round the corner as far as possible, rather than fix your vision on the road directly ahead.
What an odd thread ? Getting your knee down on the road is one of the most exhilarating things you can possibly imagine. Hearing that skkkkkrrrsh sound as the slider starts to touch down, followed by boot, followed by footrest is fantastic.
I get the impression those who criticise it, can't actually do it.
I get the impression those who criticise it, can't actually do it.
bor said:
What an odd thread ? Getting your knee down on the road is one of the most exhilarating things you can possibly imagine. Hearing that skkkkkrrrsh sound as the slider starts to touch down, followed by boot, followed by footrest is fantastic.
I get the impression those who criticise it, can't actually do it.
Crap! & I've got the sliders, scraped pegs & tyres to prove it!
I know the feeling and the grin factor but I just happen to believe it belongs on track days not the road. I used to think it was a laugh on the road till my mate & I went out specially to do kneedowns & he lost control & ended up dying in my arms, begging for me to do something (RIP Simon mate ) - I couldn't do anything cos he'd severed an internal artery in his leg.
That was 7 years ago - it is like yesterday - I've lost several mates to bikes since then & I really think you need to focus 110% on the road & save any hooning for track.......
P.S. Ferg - from your reply I think you've misunderstood my post - I'm not a tryer nor a kneedown monkey & pretty much know what I'm doing.... I'm bored of this thread now
. I'll get off my box now
>> Edited by s2rr Kitty on Tuesday 19th July 20:43
Slightly off topic, but is wheelieing on the road tarred with the same inappropriate brush as knee down antics? In the eyes of the law both pastimes are unacceptable but are still performed. Both give high levels of gratification and are very much suited to track riding. Unfortunately at most track days, if you are caught wheelieing then you are black flagged and sent on your way.
Both of the above mentioned items are completely apart from the original post; that of body position. If you attend a Roadsafe course with the Police, you will find that they do not shift any body weight during the ride, yet they still carry a tremendous amount of corner speed. The onus being on bike position in the road and not your position on the bike. Thus, giving optimum view for anticipation of potential dangers. Somenone has already mentioned looking through the bend as a way of safe progress on road or track. I couldn't agree more. Target fixation is a big problem and if you can forget your instincts and relax, you will travel where you eyes are looking (that is without diesel spills, wet drain covers, horse manure, etc. on the road). Your body position will give you as the physics suggest, high corner speed with less lean as the COG is pushed into the bend. Go with what you feel is comfortable.
As for other road users perception of what you look like hanging off (or just shifting your centre line towards the bend) is none of their business. Some people wear Mohicans and ears on their lids!!
>> Edited by veetwin on Wednesday 20th July 08:43
Both of the above mentioned items are completely apart from the original post; that of body position. If you attend a Roadsafe course with the Police, you will find that they do not shift any body weight during the ride, yet they still carry a tremendous amount of corner speed. The onus being on bike position in the road and not your position on the bike. Thus, giving optimum view for anticipation of potential dangers. Somenone has already mentioned looking through the bend as a way of safe progress on road or track. I couldn't agree more. Target fixation is a big problem and if you can forget your instincts and relax, you will travel where you eyes are looking (that is without diesel spills, wet drain covers, horse manure, etc. on the road). Your body position will give you as the physics suggest, high corner speed with less lean as the COG is pushed into the bend. Go with what you feel is comfortable.
As for other road users perception of what you look like hanging off (or just shifting your centre line towards the bend) is none of their business. Some people wear Mohicans and ears on their lids!!
>> Edited by veetwin on Wednesday 20th July 08:43
s2rr Kitty said:
P.S. Ferg - from your reply I think you've misunderstood my post - I'm not a tryer nor a kneedown monkey & pretty much know what I'm doing....
Anna, sorry, the post wasn't as a reply to you specifically! I know you're not a "knee-down-monkey"!
Take it easy at Val.
Ferg
veetwin said:Hello mate. I think wheelying is seen as much worse than knee down. Depending upon your height, you can knee down really easily. Wheelying means you're allegedly "not in full control of your vehicle". It's funny, I would have thought it takes extreme control to wheelie really well.
Slightly off topic, but is wheelieing on the road tarred with the same inappropriate brush as knee down antics?
On the knee down thing, I did something I've wanted to do for a while the other day: on the slow down lap after a race I got my knee down whilst riding one handed and waving to the crowd. That felt good.
I hang off on the road, if I feel it necessary. It depends on all the usual riding circumstances. e.g. traffic, vision of road ahead, etc... Totally agree with Kitty on this as after spending the last 2 years on track, the road is a scary place to be!
Ben,
Hiya mate, where have you been?
Re: Wheelieing, I can understand people frowning upon yours!! It's probably through envy.
Since getting rid of the Duke, I have been trying to master the art of 4-pot wheelie control. It lifts nicely off the power in second and then a quick clutchless shift to third on the way up helps progress nicely. Bring it up in first and it is like a space shuttle launch (too fierce).
Re: Knee down, you are right about different sized people. My friend is 6ft 3" and on most bends touches down as a matter of 1)body position 2)lean angle 3) having stupidly long legs and the extra body weight is compressing the suspension more to start (Preload?). He definitely is not twisting.
I took the Blade on a Brands Indy evening and was hanging off just as much as I normally would and was having no probs scraping at Paddock, Clearways and Druids. No chance at Graham Hill though! Strange as I believe Fergus suggested the scrape position on the slider is further up than the whole of the face. By that I assume that I am twisting my body and not moving my spine as suggested. Maybe another track should sort that out.
Re: Bemsee, did you race at the full GP Brands last weekend? I think our friend Sam was in the mix (Blue SV650)
Hiya mate, where have you been?
Re: Wheelieing, I can understand people frowning upon yours!! It's probably through envy.
Since getting rid of the Duke, I have been trying to master the art of 4-pot wheelie control. It lifts nicely off the power in second and then a quick clutchless shift to third on the way up helps progress nicely. Bring it up in first and it is like a space shuttle launch (too fierce).
Re: Knee down, you are right about different sized people. My friend is 6ft 3" and on most bends touches down as a matter of 1)body position 2)lean angle 3) having stupidly long legs and the extra body weight is compressing the suspension more to start (Preload?). He definitely is not twisting.
I took the Blade on a Brands Indy evening and was hanging off just as much as I normally would and was having no probs scraping at Paddock, Clearways and Druids. No chance at Graham Hill though! Strange as I believe Fergus suggested the scrape position on the slider is further up than the whole of the face. By that I assume that I am twisting my body and not moving my spine as suggested. Maybe another track should sort that out.
Re: Bemsee, did you race at the full GP Brands last weekend? I think our friend Sam was in the mix (Blue SV650)
veetwin said:
....Fergus suggested the scrape position on the slider is further up than the whole of the face
Hi mate. All I meant to suggest is that for a given position of where you decide to stick the slider to the velcro on your leathers, you can see from where you then wear the slider, which part of you 'knee' is going down.
If you can imagining being almost bolt upright on the bike, then sticking you knee out at a 90 degree angle, the the area covering your knee cap is likely to make contact with the ground. You obviously don't need to be really cranked over to do this. However, if you imagine you are really cranked over, then you no longer have room to stick your knee out and hence tend to scrape the area just above the side of your boot, i.e. to the side of your knee cap.
Check out where the MotoGP boys wear their sliders on their leathers and you'll see what I mean. Then check out where all the boys in the pub where their sliders and think why they are in different positions!
Really sad and pedantic point I know!! have a good w/e wathing the Moto GP @ Donny!
veetwin said:Not bad at all, just been busy on the track and done very little road riding.
Hiya mate, where have you been?
Re: Bemsee, did you race at the full GP Brands last weekend? I think our friend Sam was in the mix (Blue SV650)
Yep, I was on the full GP circuit last week. Didn't see that many SV's in front since I got 2x2nds and 2x3rds.
There was a wildcard there from MRO who's only 18 and has been riding for years who took the 4 wins. Still, it was good to follow him. What number is Sam then?Fergus, GP was good, rode up to the qualifying Saturday!! After watching the race on Sunday, I conclude that Rossi is special indeed! Is there anyone who can consistently get near him? Come on there must be someone out there with the same talent level?
As for the slider position, you are correct (I noticed that Melandri and a few others use double sliders in the wet). Mine are positioned mid-way on the velcro patch and wear from the centre up towards the knee which I assume translates that possibly more lean angle could be acheived. Running on Diablo Corsas, I will experiment on our next track evening/day, although, my rear tyre is worn to the edge and the front seems to have another 4mm to go. Should I really be pushing for more lean?
Ben, I can't remember Sam's number, I do know that she crashed out, once at Druids and once at Paddock and she definitely needs a new set of leathers, consequently.
As for the slider position, you are correct (I noticed that Melandri and a few others use double sliders in the wet). Mine are positioned mid-way on the velcro patch and wear from the centre up towards the knee which I assume translates that possibly more lean angle could be acheived. Running on Diablo Corsas, I will experiment on our next track evening/day, although, my rear tyre is worn to the edge and the front seems to have another 4mm to go. Should I really be pushing for more lean?
Ben, I can't remember Sam's number, I do know that she crashed out, once at Druids and once at Paddock and she definitely needs a new set of leathers, consequently.
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