Bikers of the 60s and 70s can you tell me...
Discussion
Just a quick question about something ive been wondering about for a while
Roughly what year would you say that Japanese bikes became more commonplace on our roads than British bikes?
The Japanese manufacturers started to get a foothold in the UK market in the early to mid 60's just as the British bike industry was starting to collapse with many manufacturers closing down,with only BSA Norton and Triumph surviving and still producing large numbers of road going models by the early 70's.
By the time i got into motorcycles in my mid teens in the late 70s Japanese bikes had for quite a few years already greatly outnumbered British but some riders would still be using British bikes from the late 50s and 60's well into the 80's.
I dont mean the year that Japanese bike sales figures overtook British bikes (which i would guess to be late 60s maybe?) but just the first year that the majority of bikers owned Jap bikes.
Iam guessing probably around 1973 ish.....any thoughts?
Roughly what year would you say that Japanese bikes became more commonplace on our roads than British bikes?
The Japanese manufacturers started to get a foothold in the UK market in the early to mid 60's just as the British bike industry was starting to collapse with many manufacturers closing down,with only BSA Norton and Triumph surviving and still producing large numbers of road going models by the early 70's.
By the time i got into motorcycles in my mid teens in the late 70s Japanese bikes had for quite a few years already greatly outnumbered British but some riders would still be using British bikes from the late 50s and 60's well into the 80's.
I dont mean the year that Japanese bike sales figures overtook British bikes (which i would guess to be late 60s maybe?) but just the first year that the majority of bikers owned Jap bikes.
Iam guessing probably around 1973 ish.....any thoughts?
I was a biker in the 70's and I remember the Honda 175 being a bit of game changer.
Every motorbike seemed to be a 2 stroke in my small rural town, buzzy and unreliable things. And then the 175 arrived. Not at all glamorous, but it was a reliable 4 stroke and had (what seemed at the time) to have a decent physical size.
I bought a CB250T Dream partly on the back of the solid reputation of the 175 - and partly because it was a big bike.
Every motorbike seemed to be a 2 stroke in my small rural town, buzzy and unreliable things. And then the 175 arrived. Not at all glamorous, but it was a reliable 4 stroke and had (what seemed at the time) to have a decent physical size.
I bought a CB250T Dream partly on the back of the solid reputation of the 175 - and partly because it was a big bike.
Had my first bike at 16 in 1971 (Honda 50), passed test then every bike after that was Japanese, first British bike was a Triumph (Street triple) in 2014, never considered a British bike previously I was probably influenced at 15 by buying MCN every week, reading reviews, seeing how well the big four Jap manufacturers were doing in racing and mates who were a year older who all seemed to be into Jap two strokes which appealed to younger riders, so I would say from 1970.
I started riding bikes in 1978 and it was Jap bikes all the way until a Street Triple in 2009.
I remember as soon as a Japanese bike was bought, having to ditch the OEM teflon Bridgestones or Yokohamas and finding a set of Dunlops.
Best to change the non stopping in the wet brake pads too
I remember as soon as a Japanese bike was bought, having to ditch the OEM teflon Bridgestones or Yokohamas and finding a set of Dunlops.
Best to change the non stopping in the wet brake pads too
Early 70s British bikes still the norm, by the mid 70s still a lot of patriotism with Commandos and Tridents but denying the truth that Z1s and CB750s did things in a lot more reliable way, by the end of the 70s Japanese bikes had fully taken over.
Big shout out to Italian sports mopeds YRT192N my Fantic Chopper and UNM96R my Gitane Champion.
Big shout out to my old Kawasaki S1C JMF141N and my Triumph T160 PMP865R.
Big shout out to Italian sports mopeds YRT192N my Fantic Chopper and UNM96R my Gitane Champion.
Big shout out to my old Kawasaki S1C JMF141N and my Triumph T160 PMP865R.
When I started riding in '78 almost all of the smaller bikes (sub 650), which was most bikes on the road, were Japanese. Most riders had started on Jap mopeds, then moved to Jap 250s to pass the test, then onto a Jap 400/500. There were still some bigger British bikes, mostly Triumphs or Norton's, but there were no more of those than Ducati's or Moto Gazzi's and BMW definitely seemed even common. Just about everything being bought new was Japanese. The Sliver Jubilee specials from Triumph and Norton in '77 seemed to me to be the last hoorah from both of those manufactures and the only new British bikes that I remember seeing on the road.
I'd imagine (I wasn't about) that it was when Japanese bikes started to appear on the second hand market that the majority of the machines on the road were non-British.
I think it was also a bit of a strange era. Bikes were shifting from being cheap transport of the sixties into the seventies where cars were becoming a lot cheaper and more accessible to many, so bikes were becoming more of a hobby than a necessity for more.
I think it was also a bit of a strange era. Bikes were shifting from being cheap transport of the sixties into the seventies where cars were becoming a lot cheaper and more accessible to many, so bikes were becoming more of a hobby than a necessity for more.
I started riding early 70’s and Japanese bikes were making big headway already. Especially in the smaller capacities. Nobody I knew rode a small British bike. I had a couple of mates who rode Nortons but even then they were regarded as being the odd ones out.
Personally I started on a KH250 as that was the biggest you could ride on L plates. Mainly because I started a few years later than my mates and they had already gone though the 50/125/175 stage and I wanted to be able to keep up. If I’d started at the same time I’d have gone smaller capacity.
I started riding in 76 and as some others have said the smaller bikes were mainly jap bikes as they were ideal with the 250cc learner market. Most of the people in my circles ran Brit bikes once they’d passed the test. There was more Brit bikes on the roads that bigger hap stuff from what I recall. Come 1980 and I don’t think I knew anyone still running Brit bikes.
I started riding at 16 on a ped in 1979, the only brit bike a would regularly see was a norton 850 commando .when i started to do rallies when we went up north it was all brit bikes , the people at the rally would all stop and watch as we rode in on jap bikes , 😆
Edited by bimsb6 on Thursday 13th February 12:51
srob said:
I'd imagine (I wasn't about) that it was when Japanese bikes started to appear on the second hand market that the majority of the machines on the road were non-British.
I think it was also a bit of a strange era. Bikes were shifting from being cheap transport of the sixties into the seventies where cars were becoming a lot cheaper and more accessible to many, so bikes were becoming more of a hobby than a necessity for more.
I think the 'bikes used to be cheap transport' thing is often wrong.I think it was also a bit of a strange era. Bikes were shifting from being cheap transport of the sixties into the seventies where cars were becoming a lot cheaper and more accessible to many, so bikes were becoming more of a hobby than a necessity for more.
Big bikes were always expensive things. Some of my Dad's mates had successions of new or newish bikes through the 50s and 60s.
You didn't buy a 650 Triumph because it was cheap, you bought it because it did a ton. When most cars struggled to do 60.
Through the 70s, there were a lot of British bikes around where I lived, going into town you noticed a lot of small bikes, scooters and mopeds, which would be a whole mix of Jap, Italian and other.
In the 50s, there were lots of small cheap British bikes, BSA Bantams, all sorts of small brands using Villiers engines and the like.
In the 60s, they struggled to make money on these and Japanese or Italian bikes became dominant in the smaller sizes.
There were also significant numbers of Eastern Bloc bikes like MZ, CZ, Jawa, Cossack and so on.
I recall in the 70s fuel crisis, lots of people started riding whatever bike they could drag out of a shed or buy, because back then cars did 25mpg on a good run. I don't know if that had real influence in putting lots of small bikes on the road?
I think if you moved among urban young people who bought new bikes on HP, you'd say the Japanese took over sooner than if you moved among the kind of rural people who bought used things for cash.
With bikes, there's always been big numbers 'registered' and maybe even taxed, which are not really in regular use, certainly by the 70s, there were an awful lot of 'dormant' British bikes.
croyde said:
I started riding bikes in 1978 and it was Jap bikes all the way until a Street Triple in 2009.
I remember as soon as a Japanese bike was bought, having to ditch the OEM teflon Bridgestones or Yokohamas and finding a set of Dunlops.
Best to change the non stopping in the wet brake pads too
I started riding in 1978 on a FS1- E DX and the tyres were hopeless, we called them Yokohama no grippers and would change them for Dunlops or Avon Roadrunners, the brakes not much better with undrilled discs and that terrifying 3 second lag in the wet. Can't remember seeing any British bikes although there was a small Harley Davidson dealer in Chepstow who sold and repaired bikes, maybe the Welsh chapter?I remember as soon as a Japanese bike was bought, having to ditch the OEM teflon Bridgestones or Yokohamas and finding a set of Dunlops.
Best to change the non stopping in the wet brake pads too
The 17 year olds with jobs would buy the latest Yamaha RD250E/F model and ride on L plates, these were good for 95 mph and some did come croppers as my mate's mum who worked at the local hospital would tell us every evening after her shift.
We moved to London and there was a Yamaha dealer in Kilburn (Sanders & Lewis) where I bought a new RD250F and 40 odd Jap bikes and 5 Ducati's later there seem to be more British bikes around now.
OutInTheShed said:
srob said:
I'd imagine (I wasn't about) that it was when Japanese bikes started to appear on the second hand market that the majority of the machines on the road were non-British.
I think it was also a bit of a strange era. Bikes were shifting from being cheap transport of the sixties into the seventies where cars were becoming a lot cheaper and more accessible to many, so bikes were becoming more of a hobby than a necessity for more.
I think the 'bikes used to be cheap transport' thing is often wrong.I think it was also a bit of a strange era. Bikes were shifting from being cheap transport of the sixties into the seventies where cars were becoming a lot cheaper and more accessible to many, so bikes were becoming more of a hobby than a necessity for more.
Big bikes were always expensive things. Some of my Dad's mates had successions of new or newish bikes through the 50s and 60s.
You didn't buy a 650 Triumph because it was cheap, you bought it because it did a ton. When most cars struggled to do 60.
Through the 70s, there were a lot of British bikes around where I lived, going into town you noticed a lot of small bikes, scooters and mopeds, which would be a whole mix of Jap, Italian and other.
In the 50s, there were lots of small cheap British bikes, BSA Bantams, all sorts of small brands using Villiers engines and the like.
In the 60s, they struggled to make money on these and Japanese or Italian bikes became dominant in the smaller sizes.
There were also significant numbers of Eastern Bloc bikes like MZ, CZ, Jawa, Cossack and so on.
I recall in the 70s fuel crisis, lots of people started riding whatever bike they could drag out of a shed or buy, because back then cars did 25mpg on a good run. I don't know if that had real influence in putting lots of small bikes on the road?
I think if you moved among urban young people who bought new bikes on HP, you'd say the Japanese took over sooner than if you moved among the kind of rural people who bought used things for cash.
With bikes, there's always been big numbers 'registered' and maybe even taxed, which are not really in regular use, certainly by the 70s, there were an awful lot of 'dormant' British bikes.
In 1965:
Triumph Bonneville: £349
Triumph Speed Twin: £263
BSA A65 (1966 model): £320
Ford Anglia De Luxe: £552
Ford Cortina De Luxe: £668
Austin Mini: £496
Both the 650 bikes would be top of the range - you'd struggle to spend more on a British bike in 65. The only things that would've been more would be European imports from the likes of BMW.
The Fords would struggle to get to 70 and 80mph respectively I'd suggest, where the T120 would easily top the ton which was a big deal. Something like a BSA C15 would do 60-70mph (depending how fat the rider was
) for 250 quid new.From what I remember it was the tax that made cars so expensive in those days.
srob said:
Big bikes were more expensive than little ones, but even big bikes were way cheaper than cars.
In 1965:
Triumph Bonneville: £349
Triumph Speed Twin: £263
BSA A65 (1966 model): £320
Ford Anglia De Luxe: £552
Ford Cortina De Luxe: £668
Austin Mini: £496
Both the 650 bikes would be top of the range - you'd struggle to spend more on a British bike in 65. The only things that would've been more would be European imports from the likes of BMW.
The Fords would struggle to get to 70 and 80mph respectively I'd suggest, where the T120 would easily top the ton which was a big deal. Something like a BSA C15 would do 60-70mph (depending how fat the rider was) for 250 quid new.
From what I remember it was the tax that made cars so expensive in those days.
1965 was late in the day for British bikes.In 1965:
Triumph Bonneville: £349
Triumph Speed Twin: £263
BSA A65 (1966 model): £320
Ford Anglia De Luxe: £552
Ford Cortina De Luxe: £668
Austin Mini: £496
Both the 650 bikes would be top of the range - you'd struggle to spend more on a British bike in 65. The only things that would've been more would be European imports from the likes of BMW.
The Fords would struggle to get to 70 and 80mph respectively I'd suggest, where the T120 would easily top the ton which was a big deal. Something like a BSA C15 would do 60-70mph (depending how fat the rider was
) for 250 quid new.From what I remember it was the tax that made cars so expensive in those days.
These days you can get a lot of bike brand new for £15k, but some very ordinary cars are twice that.
People mostly go for the cars, same as in 1960
Economy motoring has surely never been entirely about 'new' prices?
Although I'm told that post war, HP was important in selling vehicles, and credit was easier to get on new ones.
In 1965 you could probably get a fairly tidy 5 year old car for the price of a new BSA 250?
This is a few years earlier:
https://www.thenostalgiashop.co.uk/products/copy-o...
£26 down and 17 shillings 8d a week in 1961 for a Lambretta.
But back then stuff often had terribly short lives.
Loads of small 70s jap bikes were scrapped before hitting 10 years old.
Different places with different bike dealers and 'cultures' may have been different, but from my perspective (in Edinburgh) the change in big bikes happened really quickly. At the time (early 70s) the law was a 16 year old could ride a 50cc 'moped', and at 17 and beyond up to 250cc on L-plates and anything once you passed your test.
The Japanese were quick to create the Sports Moped class - the Honda SS50 was pretty much the previous SS50 motorcycle, with pedals tacked on that folded forwards and acted as footrests. I don't know if the Yamaha FS1E had a non-moped predecessor and too lazy to google. But as a 16 year old in the early 70s (as I was) then you were 100% going to go down the Japanese route, unless you wanted to look a t
t on a Raleigh Wisp or similar. The Italian sports mopeds came a bit later as I remember.
Then as soon as you hit 17 you wanted a 250. Sure there were some older British 250 singles kicking about, but everyone I know went Japanese. The 4-stroke guys went Honda, and those wanting nasty smelly pring ting ting 2-strokes went Yahama, Suzuki... or Kawasaki if you were rich. But we all knew as soon as we passed our test we'd be selling our 250s and getting something bigger, so no-one wanted to spend too much on them.
BUT...I was in a couple of motorcycle clubs and I can remember in 1974 when I had my Honda 250 (and all the other 17 year olds were on Japanese too), NOT ONE of the 'big' bikes were Japanese. Primarily Triumphs and Nortons, but a smattering of older AJS and Matchless...and of course Tritons. I bought a Norton Commando 750 as soon as I passed my test, and in '75 I remember 3 of the lads in the club went out and bought brand new bikes - 2 Tridents and 1 Bonneville. But then a mate of mine got a Honda 400-4, and it could certainly keep my Commando honest (although in fairness my mate of that time is still racing bikes some 50 years on, so maybe he was just a better rider).
But come 1976 a Kawasaki dealer opened in town, and suddenly big Kawasakis were locally available. I bought a new Z900 in '76. And my mates were now all switching to Kawasakis, GS1000s (Suzuki - not BMW elephants), CB750 then CB900. I can't think of anyone that bought the big Yamaha shafty, but a few were buying Suzuki kettles and even the 500 twin thingy. So in my circle, by '77, apart from a few die-hards most folks had switched to big Japanese bikes. I also had a mate who bought a BMW R90S...had a ride on it, but didn't like it.
So yea, in terms of 500cc+ bikes, in my little circle it was all British until '75, and by '76 pretty much exclusively Japanese. And the 'wee' stuff had always been primarily Japanese in the 70s...you'd get laughed at on a Bantam!
The Japanese were quick to create the Sports Moped class - the Honda SS50 was pretty much the previous SS50 motorcycle, with pedals tacked on that folded forwards and acted as footrests. I don't know if the Yamaha FS1E had a non-moped predecessor and too lazy to google. But as a 16 year old in the early 70s (as I was) then you were 100% going to go down the Japanese route, unless you wanted to look a t
t on a Raleigh Wisp or similar. The Italian sports mopeds came a bit later as I remember. Then as soon as you hit 17 you wanted a 250. Sure there were some older British 250 singles kicking about, but everyone I know went Japanese. The 4-stroke guys went Honda, and those wanting nasty smelly pring ting ting 2-strokes went Yahama, Suzuki... or Kawasaki if you were rich. But we all knew as soon as we passed our test we'd be selling our 250s and getting something bigger, so no-one wanted to spend too much on them.
BUT...I was in a couple of motorcycle clubs and I can remember in 1974 when I had my Honda 250 (and all the other 17 year olds were on Japanese too), NOT ONE of the 'big' bikes were Japanese. Primarily Triumphs and Nortons, but a smattering of older AJS and Matchless...and of course Tritons. I bought a Norton Commando 750 as soon as I passed my test, and in '75 I remember 3 of the lads in the club went out and bought brand new bikes - 2 Tridents and 1 Bonneville. But then a mate of mine got a Honda 400-4, and it could certainly keep my Commando honest (although in fairness my mate of that time is still racing bikes some 50 years on, so maybe he was just a better rider).
But come 1976 a Kawasaki dealer opened in town, and suddenly big Kawasakis were locally available. I bought a new Z900 in '76. And my mates were now all switching to Kawasakis, GS1000s (Suzuki - not BMW elephants), CB750 then CB900. I can't think of anyone that bought the big Yamaha shafty, but a few were buying Suzuki kettles and even the 500 twin thingy. So in my circle, by '77, apart from a few die-hards most folks had switched to big Japanese bikes. I also had a mate who bought a BMW R90S...had a ride on it, but didn't like it.
So yea, in terms of 500cc+ bikes, in my little circle it was all British until '75, and by '76 pretty much exclusively Japanese. And the 'wee' stuff had always been primarily Japanese in the 70s...you'd get laughed at on a Bantam!
In 1973 I had just left school and was working full time at a small motorcycle garage in Leeds, I had already been working there on Saturdays and everyday that I could bunk off school.
Every new bike that we sold was Japanese, mainly two stroke 50cc and up to 250cc, with a few bigger capacity bikes.
They were reliable with better styling and every 16/ 17 year old wanted one, pay a small deposit and then 3 years on hire purchase.
We also sold quite a few Lambretta and Vespa scooters.
The only British bikes we sold were used, mainly to the older bikers ( 30 years old and upwards ), they would not be seen dead riding " jap crap " !
I left there after a year and went into engineering, turned up on my RD250 on my first day to find the motorcycle parking area full of 250cc Japanese bikes all with " L " plates on as just about every apprentice had one and the business took on 50 apprentices each year. At finishing time it was chaos as every one tried to be the fastest up the road outside the factory and all the bikes producing enough smoke to hide a battleship.
All the older workers on their British bikes used to moan like hell about us, but some of them could still show us up on their Triumphs, Nortons , BSAs and the occasional Vincent.
The good old days of powered two wheeled fun, because we gloss over the crap brakes and tyres etc and forget about those who never made it out of their teens due to no training and youthful immortality.
Every new bike that we sold was Japanese, mainly two stroke 50cc and up to 250cc, with a few bigger capacity bikes.
They were reliable with better styling and every 16/ 17 year old wanted one, pay a small deposit and then 3 years on hire purchase.
We also sold quite a few Lambretta and Vespa scooters.
The only British bikes we sold were used, mainly to the older bikers ( 30 years old and upwards ), they would not be seen dead riding " jap crap " !
I left there after a year and went into engineering, turned up on my RD250 on my first day to find the motorcycle parking area full of 250cc Japanese bikes all with " L " plates on as just about every apprentice had one and the business took on 50 apprentices each year. At finishing time it was chaos as every one tried to be the fastest up the road outside the factory and all the bikes producing enough smoke to hide a battleship.
All the older workers on their British bikes used to moan like hell about us, but some of them could still show us up on their Triumphs, Nortons , BSAs and the occasional Vincent.
The good old days of powered two wheeled fun, because we gloss over the crap brakes and tyres etc and forget about those who never made it out of their teens due to no training and youthful immortality.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff