1999 CBR 900RR suspension / handling help needed

[TorqueDirty]

Hi folks, I'd appreciate some expert input.

I bought a nice 20k miles, one owner 1999 Fireblade last year. All in all it is great but I'm struggling with the handling. This is my second Blade (had a '96 many years ago) so I'm not new to the 16 inch front wheel experience.

However I'm finding the bike really nervous when cornering on anything other than perfect road surfaces - and there is precious little of that around here.

The bike is very eager to tip in to corners but if the road surface is even slightly imperfect it feels like the front is juddering badly and the suspension does very little to soak up any chattery little bumps. That inevitably makes me tense up, back off the throttle mid corner and the whole thing becomes no fun at all.

The suspension copes OK with bigger compressions but the fast small road imperfections really unsettle it. The rear is not a lot better either. I live down a quite rough dirt track and riding slowly along that makes the whole bike shudder and rattle.

On the road I'm no Valentino Rossi so maybe it is just me, but I'm not really enjoying the experience and it feels like the front end is going to wash out all the time. I have been riding for 35 years and I reckon I’m an OK rider but probably nothing special these days.

Given that the bike is 25 yrs old and it is on the original suspension it is probably that the suspension is shot, but before I drop a ton of cash on getting the suspension refreshed / replaced / getting a new bike is there anything I should try? I did get it looked over after I bought it and the mechanic said he though the suspension was OK - but I'm not sure if he rode it.

Worth adding that the bike does feel better if I really make an effort to put my weight over the front wheel - but then I'm riding like a wannabe track hero and I'd prefer the bike to be more supple and forgiving when I'm riding it normally.

I'm 11 stone so no heavy weight. Maybe the std settings are all wrong for my weight?

The bike is on factory recommended settings from what I can see in terms of preload and damping. I have never really played around with suspension settings on any of my previous bikes but I’m keen to adjusting a few things to see if it helps.

Or maybe I should just accept that I'm a pussy these days and just buy a KTM 690 Enduro or something. That idea quite appeals to be honest!

All thoughts / suggestions greatly appreciated.

[richhead]

At that age i would just get the forks and shock rebuilt, it probably wont cost as much as you think, K-TEC are the goto people, and they can pick springs/valves to suit you. I had one back in the day and could never get on with it, had the suspension done and it was great.

[trickywoo]

Worth making sure the headstock bearing is in good condition and well adjusted.

What front tyre are you running and at what pressure?

Check the sag, static and with you on it in riding position.

If those are ok it would then be worth digging a bit deeper with a fork service.

[TorqueDirty]

trickywoo said:

Worth making sure the headstock bearing is in good condition and well adjusted.

What front tyre are you running and at what pressure?

Check the sag, static and with you on it in riding position.

If those are ok it would then be worth digging a bit deeper with a fork service.

New headstock bearing a few hundred miles ago.

Front tyre is a Bridgestone Battlax Hypersport at recommended pressure.

Will need to get back you on the sag, but the front doesn't drop much from having no weight on it vs me on it. Maybe 20mm just by eye.

[wc98]

TorqueDirty said:

New headstock bearing a few hundred miles ago.

Front tyre is a Bridgestone Battlax Hypersport at recommended pressure.

Will need to get back you on the sag, but the front doesn't drop much from having no weight on it vs me on it. Maybe 20mm just by eye.

What is the rear tyre like, same make and similar condition ? A well worn rear and new front wont be doing you any favours if the rear tyre is squared off. You may well be spending a lot of time on the worst part of the tyre where the flat transitions to the more rounded part. With 20k miles on standard suspension and possibly original oil it will definitely be needing a refresh although i wouldn't expect it to be as bad as you are saying on modern tyres.

How many miles have you done on it since you got it ? Older sports bikes in particular can be a bit funny if ridden in a half hearted way where you are cornering on a steady or neutral throttle and a lot of the times what seems like a stretch or corner so bumpy you couldn't ride it any faster can be smoothed out just by starting a bit slower before the bumps and riding them with a positive throttle.

Back in the day on my first "big" bike (96 wt gsxr 750) i can remember a bit of road that i really struggled with until i saw a (much) faster mate go through it at twice the speed i was attempting it at. When i asked him about the harsh rapid bumps i got a funny look followed by "what bumps". Sports bike suspension generally works best when under load and that was a good example. I'm not saying go nuts but just try riding one of the corners you think is bad by approaching it slowly and accelerating all the way through it to see if it is any better.

Ps, for the avoidance of doubt i am no where near an expert but luckily for you there are a few on here. The above is just my experience of a similar situation though it might be of no use to you

[TorqueDirty]

wc98 said:

What is the rear tyre like, same make and similar condition ? A well worn rear and new front wont be doing you any favours if the rear tyre is squared off. You may well be spending a lot of time on the worst part of the tyre where the flat transitions to the more rounded part. With 20k miles on standard suspension and possibly original oil it will definitely be needing a refresh although i wouldn't expect it to be as bad as you are saying on modern tyres.

How many miles have you done on it since you got it ? Older sports bikes in particular can be a bit funny if ridden in a half hearted way where you are cornering on a steady or neutral throttle and a lot of the times what seems like a stretch or corner so bumpy you couldn't ride it any faster can be smoothed out just by starting a bit slower before the bumps and riding them with a positive throttle.

Back in the day on my first "big" bike (96 wt gsxr 750) i can remember a bit of road that i really struggled with until i saw a (much) faster mate go through it at twice the speed i was attempting it at. When i asked him about the harsh rapid bumps i got a funny look followed by "what bumps". Sports bike suspension generally works best when under load and that was a good example. I'm not saying go nuts but just try riding one of the corners you think is bad by approaching it slowly and accelerating all the way through it to see if it is any better.

Ps, for the avoidance of doubt i am no where near an expert but luckily for you there are a few on here. The above is just my experience of a similar situation though it might be of no use to you

Thanks for the useful tips. I think you may have some valid points here.

The rear is int he same condition as the front and is not squared off so I don't think it is that. However the riding style is certainly a possibility. I'm in Scotland and out in the sticks so the roads are usually either wet or covered in gravel / mud and the surface is often terrible. I bring this up because this has meant that over the years I have got more and more cautious going through corners and as a result I'm probably not being positive enough.

On one of the three days were we had sunshine last year I did manage to get fully leant over on a nice smooth cornered on ramp to the motorway and the bike felt great so I know the bike and I can do it, but it is rare.

Also I'm not riding nearly as much these days so I will admit that I'm out of the groove so to speak. I reckon I have done less than 1k miles on the bike since I got it so I'm not fully at one with it yet for sure.

[Marquezs Stabilisers]

I also live in Scotland and have a FireBlade, albeit a 2002 954. I recently had it over in Germany. Warm weather, smooth roads, no traffic and the handling was superb. Even with luggage.

Back home and I was out last night. First few miles with no luggage felt odd, until I remember I had to ride the thing, rather than just enjoy the views. As you say, road surfaces are awful in places, and things were noticeably better when surfaces improved and I could force things a bit.

Mine is also on 47k, so a refresh of the suspension this winter. There's a lad based at Knockhill who seems well regarded.

[richhead]

TorqueDirty said:

New headstock bearing a few hundred miles ago.

that could well be the problem then, overly tight will cause problems, as will overly loose, worth a first check.

[J__Wood]

richhead said:

TorqueDirty said:

New headstock bearing a few hundred miles ago.

that could well be the problem then, overly tight will cause problems, as will overly loose, worth a first check.

I guess if you've had headstock bearing replaced you've checked front (and rear) wheel bearings? If worn they can amplify issues going over poor surfaces.

[Farky]

Marquezs Stabilisers said:

I also live in Scotland and have a FireBlade, albeit a 2002 954. I recently had it over in Germany. Warm weather, smooth roads, no traffic and the handling was superb. Even with luggage.

Back home and I was out last night. First few miles with no luggage felt odd, until I remember I had to ride the thing, rather than just enjoy the views. As you say, road surfaces are awful in places, and things were noticeably better when surfaces improved and I could force things a bit.

Mine is also on 47k, so a refresh of the suspension this winter. There's a lad based at Knockhill who seems well regarded.

Sean at GSG Performance knockhill, done the suspension on our Zzr1400, what a transformation :-)

[SS427 Camaro]

TorqueDirty said:

Hi folks, I'd appreciate some expert input.

I bought a nice 20k miles, one owner 1999 Fireblade last year. All in all it is great but I'm struggling with the handling. This is my second Blade (had a '96 many years ago) so I'm not new to the 16 inch front wheel experience.

However I'm finding the bike really nervous when cornering on anything other than perfect road surfaces - and there is precious little of that around here.

The bike is very eager to tip in to corners but if the road surface is even slightly imperfect it feels like the front is juddering badly and the suspension does very little to soak up any chattery little bumps. That inevitably makes me tense up, back off the throttle mid corner and the whole thing becomes no fun at all.

The suspension copes OK with bigger compressions but the fast small road imperfections really unsettle it. The rear is not a lot better either. I live down a quite rough dirt track and riding slowly along that makes the whole bike shudder and rattle.

On the road I'm no Valentino Rossi so maybe it is just me, but I'm not really enjoying the experience and it feels like the front end is going to wash out all the time. I have been riding for 35 years and I reckon I’m an OK rider but probably nothing special these days.

Given that the bike is 25 yrs old and it is on the original suspension it is probably that the suspension is shot, but before I drop a ton of cash on getting the suspension refreshed / replaced / getting a new bike is there anything I should try? I did get it looked over after I bought it and the mechanic said he though the suspension was OK - but I'm not sure if he rode it.

Worth adding that the bike does feel better if I really make an effort to put my weight over the front wheel - but then I'm riding like a wannabe track hero and I'd prefer the bike to be more supple and forgiving when I'm riding it normally.

I'm 11 stone so no heavy weight. Maybe the std settings are all wrong for my weight?

The bike is on factory recommended settings from what I can see in terms of preload and damping. I have never really played around with suspension settings on any of my previous bikes but I’m keen to adjusting a few things to see if it helps.

Or maybe I should just accept that I'm a pussy these days and just buy a KTM 690 Enduro or something. That idea quite appeals to be honest!

All thoughts / suggestions greatly appreciated.

I’ve had many early FBs, plus I restore bikes for a living. Where in the country are you loaded ? I could look at it for you.

[TorqueDirty]

Update - it was me.

Riding way too tense and not trusting to the bike to do what it was carefully designed to do.

I was fighting the handle bars, instinctively keeping my inside elbow tense during cornering and not letting the front wheel tuck in to the corner and find its way. I'm pretty sure this was also causing the vague front end feeling too.

Had a really good run yesterday and focussed on keeping my elbows down and relaxed, keeping my weight forward and allowing the handlebars and suspension to fulfil their design brief.

Admittedly the roads were bone dry and I chose a route with good tarmac but the difference was night and day.

The suspension still probably needs a refresh but it was light years better.

Summary: the bike is awesome and I need to work on my trust issues!

Thanks for all the advice.

[Farky]

TorqueDirty said:

Update - it was me.

Riding way too tense and not trusting to the bike to do what it was carefully designed to do.

I was fighting the handle bars, instinctively keeping my inside elbow tense during cornering and not letting the front wheel tuck in to the corner and find its way. I'm pretty sure this was also causing the vague front end feeling too.

Had a really good run yesterday and focussed on keeping my elbows down and relaxed, keeping my weight forward and allowing the handlebars and suspension to fulfil their design brief.

Admittedly the roads were bone dry and I chose a route with good tarmac but the difference was night and day.

The suspension still probably needs a refresh but it was light years better.

Summary: the bike is awesome and I need to work on my trust issues!

Thanks for all the advice.

Good to hear you’ve found more confidence
If your local to us in Central Scotland, we can organise rideouts if you’d be up for it

[wc98]

TorqueDirty said:

Update - it was me.

Riding way too tense and not trusting to the bike to do what it was carefully designed to do.

I was fighting the handle bars, instinctively keeping my inside elbow tense during cornering and not letting the front wheel tuck in to the corner and find its way. I'm pretty sure this was also causing the vague front end feeling too.

Had a really good run yesterday and focussed on keeping my elbows down and relaxed, keeping my weight forward and allowing the handlebars and suspension to fulfil their design brief.

Admittedly the roads were bone dry and I chose a route with good tarmac but the difference was night and day.

The suspension still probably needs a refresh but it was light years better.

Summary: the bike is awesome and I need to work on my trust issues!

Thanks for all the advice.

That's great to hear. I also live in Scotland so know what you mean about the state of the roads these days. I don't have a bike at the moment but when i was riding regular ,not being blessed with anything in the way of natural talent i would have off days where i never felt "it" whatever "it" was and would ride like that and it had a major negative effect. Once you recognise it it's a lot easier to fix.