Discussion
Normally so that the competition don't realise how quick they are, and then pull out the stops to find more performance themselves. I agree it's somewhat counter intuitive.
Equally sometimes people chase a lap time over race pace, so testing is hard to read. Plus it's at an odd track for BSB.
Equally sometimes people chase a lap time over race pace, so testing is hard to read. Plus it's at an odd track for BSB.
slopes said:
Couple of big offs so far but the usual suspects at the front end last time i looked.
I think the more interesting question will be, who is putting it all out there and who is sandbagging?
Leon Haslam back on a Ducati and with the first round at Oulton Park, I can see him being on the podium. I think the more interesting question will be, who is putting it all out there and who is sandbagging?
It’s such a shame not to have Brad and Kyle in the championship. Hopefully something can be sorted for them.
I think Silverstone was missing last year, Pringle doesn't really want bikes at his track I have no idea why, I think Stuart asked for the big track and Pringle said you get the triangle or nothing, so understandably they went to Assen or Navarras, although oddly I quite enjoyed the little track.
I have to admit I think they will, lose MotoGP aswell, crowds are falling every year and if this year does not work (aswell as dropping day of Champions that has been there since the early 90's in Britain) I imagine that is gone, probably to be replaced by WEC, which has history there and would get a far bigger crowd and is cars which is what Pringle wants
I have to admit I think they will, lose MotoGP aswell, crowds are falling every year and if this year does not work (aswell as dropping day of Champions that has been there since the early 90's in Britain) I imagine that is gone, probably to be replaced by WEC, which has history there and would get a far bigger crowd and is cars which is what Pringle wants
Kneedragger95 said:
Sorry if this seems like a daft question, but why would/do teams sandbag?
Surely everyone tries to make their machinery as fast as possible regardless of the competition?
As someone else said, it's to keep their hand close to their chest so to speak, if they go for the fastest possible time straight away then everyone else has a benchmark to chase.Surely everyone tries to make their machinery as fast as possible regardless of the competition?
However, if they consistently run slightly slower than they potentially could, then come the first race, hypothetically they could have quite the advantage.
It's gamesmanship and has been around in racing for donkeys years, if you read Carl Fogarty's autobiography, he points out numerous occasions when people have used gamesmanship to their advantage.
Rolling up to their grid slot and leaving about 4 feet in front of themselves so they can get a bit of a head start - granted this has all but been eradicated in BSB now - so that when the lights change they are already rolling.
bergclimber34 said:
I think Silverstone was missing last year, Pringle doesn't really want bikes at his track I have no idea why, I think Stuart asked for the big track and Pringle said you get the triangle or nothing, so understandably they went to Assen or Navarras, although oddly I quite enjoyed the little track.
I have to admit I think they will, lose MotoGP aswell, crowds are falling every year and if this year does not work (aswell as dropping day of Champions that has been there since the early 90's in Britain) I imagine that is gone, probably to be replaced by WEC, which has history there and would get a far bigger crowd and is cars which is what Pringle wants
Donnington was far better for spectators when the GPs were held there, in my opinion.I have to admit I think they will, lose MotoGP aswell, crowds are falling every year and if this year does not work (aswell as dropping day of Champions that has been there since the early 90's in Britain) I imagine that is gone, probably to be replaced by WEC, which has history there and would get a far bigger crowd and is cars which is what Pringle wants
I absolutely loved the late 80s early 90s era in particular but they were great all the way through until it was dropped from the calendar.
Personally, I dislike spectating at Silverstone for any type of racing but bike events there never floated my boat at all.
Maybe it's because it's so flat it loses something in the sense of motion? I remember going to the F1 there and being totally unimpressed by the speed.
PorkInsider said:
bergclimber34 said:
I think Silverstone was missing last year, Pringle doesn't really want bikes at his track I have no idea why, I think Stuart asked for the big track and Pringle said you get the triangle or nothing, so understandably they went to Assen or Navarras, although oddly I quite enjoyed the little track.
I have to admit I think they will, lose MotoGP aswell, crowds are falling every year and if this year does not work (aswell as dropping day of Champions that has been there since the early 90's in Britain) I imagine that is gone, probably to be replaced by WEC, which has history there and would get a far bigger crowd and is cars which is what Pringle wants
Donnington was far better for spectators when the GPs were held there, in my opinion.I have to admit I think they will, lose MotoGP aswell, crowds are falling every year and if this year does not work (aswell as dropping day of Champions that has been there since the early 90's in Britain) I imagine that is gone, probably to be replaced by WEC, which has history there and would get a far bigger crowd and is cars which is what Pringle wants
I absolutely loved the late 80s early 90s era in particular but they were great all the way through until it was dropped from the calendar.
Personally, I dislike spectating at Silverstone for any type of racing but bike events there never floated my boat at all.
Maybe it's because it's so flat it loses something in the sense of motion? I remember going to the F1 there and being totally unimpressed by the speed.
Silverstone just feels too 'big' for BSB and even BTCC really. Go to any other track and all the viewing locations, the paddock etc just feel accessible, whereas when I went to Silverstone for BSB everywhere just felt remote. Coupled with the poor viewing, I only did BSB once at Silverstone and never returned. The only reason it's a 'miss' from the calendar is that it adds that little extra variety of another track, seeing as places like Croft, Mallory and Mondello Park have also disappeared over the years.
You could get reasonably close at the triangle, not as you could elsewhere, but Woodcote was a great place to watch guys sliding, it is just a shame that the management team there only see cars as a way to make money, I guess they realise what bike fans know, that they dont like the place.
Agreed, I would imagine the costs to hire it for BSB would be staggering and why have it there when they can simply add another track from their stable (MSV)., business wise it makes no sense.
The triangle was all they were offered, I gather BSB asked the question and were told no, which affirms the rather odd view that the venue hosting the motorcycle GP in our country does not want the British series at its track, which also supports the view in a way that Pringle will be quite happy to lose MotoGP from there. And Dorna will also be happy to take it somewhere that gets a bigger crowd, the venue fell out with WEC when crowds dropped so they have form for it I'm afraid.
The triangle was all they were offered, I gather BSB asked the question and were told no, which affirms the rather odd view that the venue hosting the motorcycle GP in our country does not want the British series at its track, which also supports the view in a way that Pringle will be quite happy to lose MotoGP from there. And Dorna will also be happy to take it somewhere that gets a bigger crowd, the venue fell out with WEC when crowds dropped so they have form for it I'm afraid.
bergclimber34 said:
Agreed, I would imagine the costs to hire it for BSB would be staggering and why have it there when they can simply add another track from their stable (MSV)., business wise it makes no sense.
The triangle was all they were offered, I gather BSB asked the question and were told no, which affirms the rather odd view that the venue hosting the motorcycle GP in our country does not want the British series at its track, which also supports the view in a way that Pringle will be quite happy to lose MotoGP from there. And Dorna will also be happy to take it somewhere that gets a bigger crowd, the venue fell out with WEC when crowds dropped so they have form for it I'm afraid.
That's not all true. The triangle was all they were offered, I gather BSB asked the question and were told no, which affirms the rather odd view that the venue hosting the motorcycle GP in our country does not want the British series at its track, which also supports the view in a way that Pringle will be quite happy to lose MotoGP from there. And Dorna will also be happy to take it somewhere that gets a bigger crowd, the venue fell out with WEC when crowds dropped so they have form for it I'm afraid.
BSB moved from the full circuit as a result of the surface issues after the rain soaked GP left that half of a track risky if it was wet. The whole track was resurfaced the following year, but BSB remained on the National circuit as A) it was cheaper for BSB, and B) it just doesn't draw a big enough crowd for that size of track.
The GP track was offered back to BSB/MSVR, but was declined
It's a layout that's super popular with Riders, but understandably not popular with Fans as you just have to sit so far away
Silverstone is expensive to get into for F1, GP and racing in general, and most of the reason for this is because Liberty Media and Dorna have excessive hosting fees. For most countries, the local government help fund these as they recognise the tourism benefit, but UKGov don't
Subsequently, Silverstone have to fund the hosting fee (think Circa Eu5m to Dorna for GP) via ticket sales
Stuart Pringle is a big bike fan, and does the Silverstone trackdays himself, but equally, he's got a responsibility to the Board to not throw money down the drain. Bikes just don't bring the cash in that cars do, and is generally a working class sport, whereas car racing is far from it
Some of that is a conflict to what I have heard, they stopped track days for bikes and they stopped club racing for bikes, I would not think club racing for bikes or cars bought in ANY more attendance for each other to be quite honest, so that is a slight misnomer.
I am fully aware of the hosting fees issue, it is an issue with all high level Motorsport, I am of the opinion that no matter what SIlverstone do GP attendance will fall, people just dont like the place that much. I dont think ticket prices are that high, maybe in comparison to some venues, but they might be local govt funded as you say.
I think they make more than enough from F1 to pretty much not bother with anything else is the real reason, especially if it is not making them a bunch, they have plenty of other revenue streams, rents, hotels, venue hire.
But maybe stop calling yourself the home of British Motorsport if you are turning your back on most it!!
I am fully aware of the hosting fees issue, it is an issue with all high level Motorsport, I am of the opinion that no matter what SIlverstone do GP attendance will fall, people just dont like the place that much. I dont think ticket prices are that high, maybe in comparison to some venues, but they might be local govt funded as you say.
I think they make more than enough from F1 to pretty much not bother with anything else is the real reason, especially if it is not making them a bunch, they have plenty of other revenue streams, rents, hotels, venue hire.
But maybe stop calling yourself the home of British Motorsport if you are turning your back on most it!!
I think Graeme's understanding is fairly spot on.
The 3 days they've allowed for bike trackdays is dipping a toe back into the market and see whether the hassle of bike trackdays is worth it financially - even if it just covers costs.
Not mentioned so far is their lovely gazillion pound racing surface that's great for F1 & MotoGP. Bike events harm this when crashing way more than a spinning car ever does.
Baines Racing used to be based at Silverstone and when I took my Ducati 900 SL there for a service in mid 90's they always said that the dozen little engineering shops in their area pays less in rent than it was bulldozing it, tarmaccing it & have the F1 punters pay to park on it for one weekend a year. Utter madness.
The 3 days they've allowed for bike trackdays is dipping a toe back into the market and see whether the hassle of bike trackdays is worth it financially - even if it just covers costs.
Not mentioned so far is their lovely gazillion pound racing surface that's great for F1 & MotoGP. Bike events harm this when crashing way more than a spinning car ever does.
Baines Racing used to be based at Silverstone and when I took my Ducati 900 SL there for a service in mid 90's they always said that the dozen little engineering shops in their area pays less in rent than it was bulldozing it, tarmaccing it & have the F1 punters pay to park on it for one weekend a year. Utter madness.
I hate Silverstone with a passion, i've been there 4 times and it has clagged it down each and every time i've been there.
I know it's coincidence but it put me off, the last time i watched bike racing there was back in '86, the year when Alan Carter thumped that marshall - i think - and Paul Lewis was right at the front of the 500 race, until the first corner.
I know it's coincidence but it put me off, the last time i watched bike racing there was back in '86, the year when Alan Carter thumped that marshall - i think - and Paul Lewis was right at the front of the 500 race, until the first corner.
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