Calipers,which would you choose?
Discussion
I have found standard four pot Brembo to be entirely adequate.
I have ridden various other bikes with various other brakes and not liked the feel.
What is wrong with your current brakes?
Lack of power? Too much lever travel? Not 'progressive'?
Fade?
Some years ago, I rode a mate's bike before and after a proper brake overhaul. It made a big difference to the feel and I wouldn't have said the brakes were 'wrong' to start with.
Are we talking about a bike with ABS? Is the mysterious box of gubbins the main thing in the feel of the brakes?
Before spending a lot on bling, it might be worth understanding the lever ratio, MCyl bore, caliper piston, pad material and so on.
Personally, I have fairly strong hands, so I don't mind the brake needing a firm squeeze by other people's standards, but my current bike doesn't need huge effort to lock the wheel at the MOT test.
I borrowed a (nearly new) bike somewhere hilly a while back, riding sedately downhill, two up, I was having to move all my fingers onto the brake lever to avoid them being trapped against the bar. I normally only use one or two fingers.
Goodridge hoses are essential in my view, but I believe that the characteristics of the hoses may be part of tuning the ABS response?
I have ridden various other bikes with various other brakes and not liked the feel.
What is wrong with your current brakes?
Lack of power? Too much lever travel? Not 'progressive'?
Fade?
Some years ago, I rode a mate's bike before and after a proper brake overhaul. It made a big difference to the feel and I wouldn't have said the brakes were 'wrong' to start with.
Are we talking about a bike with ABS? Is the mysterious box of gubbins the main thing in the feel of the brakes?
Before spending a lot on bling, it might be worth understanding the lever ratio, MCyl bore, caliper piston, pad material and so on.
Personally, I have fairly strong hands, so I don't mind the brake needing a firm squeeze by other people's standards, but my current bike doesn't need huge effort to lock the wheel at the MOT test.
I borrowed a (nearly new) bike somewhere hilly a while back, riding sedately downhill, two up, I was having to move all my fingers onto the brake lever to avoid them being trapped against the bar. I normally only use one or two fingers.
Goodridge hoses are essential in my view, but I believe that the characteristics of the hoses may be part of tuning the ABS response?
Standard Tokico calipers,EBC EPFA pads,Motul 660,Hel braided lines and standard lever and master cylinder with EBC disks on TL1000s.
After 4 sessions the lever is back to the bar and while it comes back a bit after lunch it doesn’t fully recover and I usually have to call it quits after the 6th session.
After 4 sessions the lever is back to the bar and while it comes back a bit after lunch it doesn’t fully recover and I usually have to call it quits after the 6th session.
smifffymoto said:
Standard Tokico calipers,EBC EPFA pads,Motul 660,Hel braided lines and standard lever and master cylinder with EBC disks on TL1000s.
After 4 sessions the lever is back to the bar and while it comes back a bit after lunch it doesn t fully recover and I usually have to call it quits after the 6th session.
Can’t help you but adding the bit about track use makes more sense.After 4 sessions the lever is back to the bar and while it comes back a bit after lunch it doesn t fully recover and I usually have to call it quits after the 6th session.
Very few modern bikes need much more than original equipment for road use.
I asked opinions on the same lines recently.
The bike is a 2002 fireblade with OEM axial calipers, hel master cylinder, updated pads/fluids/hoses. It stops just fine but I was tempted by hel’s new finned calipers.
A friend who has raced extensively (iom, bsb, etc) advised that he wouldn’t put radial calipers on axial forks. His logic being that the extra stopping power might highlight any weakness in 20+ yr old tech and a better spend would be to swap the forks entirely for second hand modern units that come with radials as standard.
Hence I left it alone, rare for me as I am a tart.
For the question posed, I would go with the aforementioned hel’ new finned calipers as they seem great value and the quality of the master cylinder I have really is top notch.
The bike is a 2002 fireblade with OEM axial calipers, hel master cylinder, updated pads/fluids/hoses. It stops just fine but I was tempted by hel’s new finned calipers.
A friend who has raced extensively (iom, bsb, etc) advised that he wouldn’t put radial calipers on axial forks. His logic being that the extra stopping power might highlight any weakness in 20+ yr old tech and a better spend would be to swap the forks entirely for second hand modern units that come with radials as standard.
Hence I left it alone, rare for me as I am a tart.
For the question posed, I would go with the aforementioned hel’ new finned calipers as they seem great value and the quality of the master cylinder I have really is top notch.
The forks will also get an overhaul,at the very least revalved maybe even cartridges.
The forks are usd with compression,rebound and damping.The only old tech is the caliper mounts and as I understand,radial calipers don’t necessarily/ in all cases,give better braking performance over axial.
The forks are usd with compression,rebound and damping.The only old tech is the caliper mounts and as I understand,radial calipers don’t necessarily/ in all cases,give better braking performance over axial.
richhead said:
In your op you didnt mention track use.
Calipers are likely not the problem, heat probably is, more race focused pads and fluid would be a cheap change.
He’s already running motul 660 and epfa pads.Calipers are likely not the problem, heat probably is, more race focused pads and fluid would be a cheap change.
I kind of think the callipers may not be working properly if they are boiling 660 fluid. If they aren’t binding I think you need a big change to solve the problem. Probably bigger discs and some M4 or stylema callipers.
Are they the six piston Tokicos that are common on bikes from around then, and have a well deserved reputation for frankly not being all that good?
If so, there's a conversion kit for Kawasaki ZX-9Rs of a similar age to fit the Brembo calipers from a Ducati 996. That's supposed to be a very good upgrade and also gives you access to a wider range of pads.
I also have a 2002 FireBlade, which I bought instead. The calipers on that are superb for road use
If so, there's a conversion kit for Kawasaki ZX-9Rs of a similar age to fit the Brembo calipers from a Ducati 996. That's supposed to be a very good upgrade and also gives you access to a wider range of pads.
I also have a 2002 FireBlade, which I bought instead. The calipers on that are superb for road use
My Dad would have said something about better riders carrying more corner speed and being easier on the brakes.
Perhaps more helpfully, what's described is a lot of heat build up that's taking a long time to go away.
Might it be worth measuring caliper and disc temperatures after a session, maybe other temperatures too?
A lot more than other bikes?
Both sides the same?
Is the heat really enough to affect the fluid that badly, or is there something else going on?
Pads distorting maybe?
What pistons are in the calipers? Back in the mists of time I recall discussions about throttling the heat path between pad and fluid via the caliper piston.
Lever coming back to the bar can also be a warping disc pushing the pistons back?
Perhaps more helpfully, what's described is a lot of heat build up that's taking a long time to go away.
Might it be worth measuring caliper and disc temperatures after a session, maybe other temperatures too?
A lot more than other bikes?
Both sides the same?
Is the heat really enough to affect the fluid that badly, or is there something else going on?
Pads distorting maybe?
What pistons are in the calipers? Back in the mists of time I recall discussions about throttling the heat path between pad and fluid via the caliper piston.
Lever coming back to the bar can also be a warping disc pushing the pistons back?
I think half the problem is trying to run the same pace as more modern bikes with better tyres and suspension, I have to make up ground on the brakes.
I could easily throw £3000 at it for brakes,suspension,wheels and tyres but still have a 25 year old bike worth less than the bling and go faster bits.
I could buy a newer bike but I like its power delivery,sound and uniqueness
Regardless of what anybody says,no one likes being passed on track.
I could easily throw £3000 at it for brakes,suspension,wheels and tyres but still have a 25 year old bike worth less than the bling and go faster bits.
I could buy a newer bike but I like its power delivery,sound and uniqueness
Regardless of what anybody says,no one likes being passed on track.
What were people using when these bikes were new?
ISTR aftermarket 6 pot calipers? Harrison?
Seriously, something is quite wrong if it's not 'recovering' over lunch. How hot are the calipers after standing for 5/10/20 minutes?
You can get stick on things that change colour with heat, variations change back as they cool down or record peak temperature.
I used to have a mate in the brake industry but that was a while back.
There must be people in the bike sport world who can help.
It does sound to me like what you have should be better than it is, even if it's not the latest and greatest.
ISTR aftermarket 6 pot calipers? Harrison?
Seriously, something is quite wrong if it's not 'recovering' over lunch. How hot are the calipers after standing for 5/10/20 minutes?
You can get stick on things that change colour with heat, variations change back as they cool down or record peak temperature.
I used to have a mate in the brake industry but that was a while back.
There must be people in the bike sport world who can help.
It does sound to me like what you have should be better than it is, even if it's not the latest and greatest.
Marquezs Stabilisers said:
Are they the six piston Tokicos that are common on bikes from around then, and have a well deserved reputation for frankly not being all that good?
If so, there's a conversion kit for Kawasaki ZX-9Rs of a similar age to fit the Brembo calipers from a Ducati 996. That's supposed to be a very good upgrade and also gives you access to a wider range of pads.
I also have a 2002 FireBlade, which I bought instead. The calipers on that are superb for road use
4 piston on the TLS IIRC. I used to have the Hayabusa ones[1] on my track SV and they're great when they're freshly rebuilt and with new pads but they had no wear plates so the pads would eat into the caliper over time, the pistons seemed to seize for fun *AND* the pads would wear oddly. Not recommended. If so, there's a conversion kit for Kawasaki ZX-9Rs of a similar age to fit the Brembo calipers from a Ducati 996. That's supposed to be a very good upgrade and also gives you access to a wider range of pads.
I also have a 2002 FireBlade, which I bought instead. The calipers on that are superb for road use
SV is now wearing radial brakes (along with another fork swap), they're great but not going to suggest that because needs the forks too!
On a more realistic note, we've got CBR600RR 2003-4 calipers with a Fireblade (2012) master cylinder on the RVF400R and the brakes on that are amazing (the original ones weren't bad).
[1] They look all the same but they run different pistons, 'busa were lighter than others, IIRC they were coated aluminium rather than steel pistons.
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