DfT wants new motorcycle emissions laws, but admits it has n

[James_0541]

There is a thread on the General Gassing (cars) related to this, seems to be a sledge hammer response to crack a nut from the powers that be. No surprise there then. Doesn't affect me as my bike is standard, has the potential to affect anyone with a non-standard exhaust/map. Link is from Visor Down:

https://www.visordown.com/news/dft-wants-new-motor...

[Condi]

Can anyone explain why bikes shouldn't be included in the legislation? Other than "we don't want to be".

It's fairly obvious that if you have a rule which says bikes must meet Euro 6 when they're sold, but then you can instantly go and remove all the emissions equipment, put on an EUC map, and emit far above the level they were sold with then the emissions standard and law aren't doing their job. Cars and other motor vehicles have always had this rule however badly it is enforced. The poor enforcement is what the wider rule changes around this motorbike specific bit are trying to address.

[hiccy18]

On one my bikes the cats and downpipes were combined so when the downpipes went the whole lot needed done, at a large price and little availability. A full system was a small fraction of the price, and available next day. I don't think there's many cars with only one cat that is an assembly with the manifold, and there's even fewer where the manifolds are a common failure.

[s p a c e m a n]

So I just turn down the fuel on my power commander for the test and then set it back after. That's how we get the ulez certificates isn't it? I'm buying shares in dynojet

[B'stard Child]

hiccy18 said:

On one my bikes the cats and downpipes were combined so when the downpipes went the whole lot needed done, at a large price and little availability. A full system was a small fraction of the price, and available next day. I don't think there's many cars with only one cat that is an assembly with the manifold, and there's even fewer where the manifolds are a common failure.

A lot of cars have one piece downpipes and integral cats - quite a lot of cars have integral cats or DPF's with manifolds

I took the exhaust of a mates BMW 7 series and it was one piece from back box to the connection on the manifold!!!!

My SLK55 has 2 cats in each down pipe so 4 cats in total

My BMW K1200RS exhaust is one piece downpipes, cat and silencers

I don't think it's that different cars to motorcycles and the prices are similarly eye watering for cars when emissions equipment ages out - the difference is you can't get away with throwing a de-cat pipe and expect to pass emissions testing with a car where you can easily and relatively cheaply throw a new system on a motorcycle with no risk of failure (unless it's stupidly loud)

[sixor8]

Its the government and DVLA laziness to not structure bike Ved by emissions . Bikes have had cats for years but pay by engine capacity, still. They want to have their cake and eat it, my 900cc bike is £125 p.a. I bet it's below 120g / km so should be £35 max.

[_Rodders_]

said:

Always pissed me off when my bike was £15 and 2 litre diesels were £20 and loads of cars were completely free.

[OutInTheShed]

Is this really a trojan horse for getting shot of noisy aftermarket pipes?

[trickywoo]

OutInTheShed said:

Is this really a trojan horse for getting shot of noisy aftermarket pipes?

Probably not as most cats aren’t in the silencer section of the exhaust. You could probably pass emissions with the cat in place and no silencer fitted.

[P675]

The thing with bikes is the emissions per person is much less efficient in the fantasy land where every car has 4 people in it. That's an attack vector they will use.

[catso]

Not sure on this as it would likely mission creep beyond just emissions but, I can see they would say that a bike made with a catalytic converter should be required to keep it and therefore conform to the emission standards it was built to.

From a selfish point of view it's unlikely to affect me unless mission creep extends to 'anything aftermarket' as all my bikes are old and pre-cat/any emissions standards so the standards of the day (except noise levels) are likely still met even with aftermarket exhausts and I currently have no plans to buy any newer bikes anyway but, given the price of new bike aftermarket exhausts I probably wouldn't be changing them anyway plus, modern sport bikes make such huge power even in standard catalysed trim that it almost seems pointless though, maybe I'm just getting old.

[Crudeoink]

Annoyingly my Euro 5+ Speed twin RS comes with catalysts in the end cans for a total of 3 catalysts. This means I can't ever fit slip ons for a slightly deeper tone. That said bike MOTs are never going to be able to test emissions easily (my local place is old school and very small workshop only capable of fitting one bike at a time), would the MOT testers be required to buy testing equipment or know exactly how many and where the cats are meant to be on every bike?

[hondajack85]

Whould be nice to shut the fker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.

[Courser]

What were the emissions controls in 1958 ? 😂

To be fair though , I can’t see how they can insist on controls being kept in place when bikes RFL isn’t linked to its emissions.

Cake and eating it . As an aside , most “ noisy “ exhausts wouldn’t cause an emissions fail.
Your being tested for what comes out the pipe , not what’s in it.

[STe_rsv4]

hondajack85 said:

Whould be nice to shut the fker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.

Seeing as most Ducatis are v twin or V4, they wouldn't be screaming, be more like thumping or howling down the road.. ;-)

[Biker9090]

I have no problem with it - If applied to newly registered vehicles.

Why should someone - who in good faith - bought an older bike which now fails on it's MOT because a previous owner ripped the PAIR valve out?

The simple fact is, not only are the oem exhausts extremely expensive to buy but they are also extremely difficult to source for certain bikes - remember all those old Hondas with mild steel that rotted like an old Lawnmower?

I would say that it's a stealth way of forcing older vehicles off of the road - but after rewatching Yes Minister again recently It's more likely to be staggering incompetence.....

[trickywoo]

STe_rsv4 said:

hondajack85 said:

Whould be nice to shut the fker up that screams down the road at 0630 on his noisy ducati.
If not, the winter months will give some respite and it may get nicked at some stage lol.

Seeing as most Ducatis are v twin or V4, they wouldn't be screaming, be more like thumping or howling down the road.. ;-)

Could just be the dry clutch making the racket.

[Condi]

Biker9090 said:

The simple fact is, not only are the oem exhausts extremely expensive to buy but they are also extremely difficult to source for certain bikes - remember all those old Hondas with mild steel that rotted like an old Lawnmower?

I would say that it's a stealth way of forcing older vehicles off of the road - but after rewatching Yes Minister again recently It's more likely to be staggering incompetence.....

For older bikes it's not likely to be an issue because there was less strict limits and no emissions control, other than keeping the carbs original and clean, air filter changed etc. Its only when EFI came in that remaps easily allowed people to increase the fuelling, and then later vehicles with cats which could be removed that emissions could be increased in the pursuit of more power.