Talk to me about scooters.

[LosingGrip]

My GS is getting on (2012 65,000 miles). It is used purely to get to and from work five days a week (50 miles a day, country roads, small section of dual carriageway and town).

Its not worth repairing when a big bill comes. So ive been thinking about a scooter.

Am I mad? Would a 300cc work for my needs? GS gets around 45MPG. Car isnt an option as parking is ste (and that gets 25mpg).

Any in particular to look at? Any to avoid?

[itcaptainslow]

Pretty close to home, I've got a BMW C400GT which I really like. I'll summarise below;

Good
- Economy; it'll return 90mpg ridden reasonably carefully, 75mpg with a bit more pressing on.
- Will cruise happily at 70mph all day with a bit in reserve, and top out at just shy of 100mph. Overtakes fine on A-Roads, albeit not with the vim of a "proper" bike of course.
- Comfy; it's got nuclear heated grips, a heated seat which has genuinely made me think I've st myself, a roomy riding position and not a bad ride.
- Great headlight makes night riding quite pleasant.
- Handles well for a scooter.
- Well built.

Bad
- Wind noise; I've had to purchase an aftermarket taller screen, which has made it much better. The stock screen is just the wrong height for me.
- Underseat storage is poor, you can fit a full face helmet & lock but that's about it. Had to fit a Hepco & Becker top box to mine to make it more practical.

I had a Forza 350 beforehand and the BMW definitely feels a cut above in built quality & "plushness". Economy is roughly the same. Honda had a lot more under seat stowage - I could fit my lid, jacket & trousers no problem. BMW has no chance of that lot. Honda heated grips are rubbish.

[nordboy]

I've had a C400GT and a Yamaha X Max 300 tech max. Both were very capable, good fun to ride. Would do 90mph but take a while to get that last 10-15mph. Traffic light grand prix they're great.

The Xmax was much more practical than the C400Gt due to the latter having a crap under seat storage area that you had to fold up when you rode it.

MPG, 90+ for the xmax, slightly less for the C400. But the C400 had heated grips and seat so was better spec'd and bigger so more comfortable. handling on the xmax was better though.

But, after all I said up there, I always wanted a bit more ooomph. I now have a Honda Xadv 750. All the best bits of a scooter but feels far more like a bike to ride. Goes and handles really well, very bike like and MPG is 60+.

I have a dodgy hip and i have no issues with the seat height or the weight. Really well spec'd, I have put genuine heated grips on it and a few more accessories. Not blingy lights etc, just practical stuff.

[Trevor555]

I echo the above comments, great bits ok kit for getting about.

I've run scooters now since 1996 when I bough my first 125cc to leave at the railway station.

The 300cc+ ones are great, you really can go anywhere on them.

I've been away with my missus on the back, underseat rammed full of her clothes, box on the back, and it'll still cruise along quite happily at 70mph.

Country road overtaking takes more carefull planning, especially two up, they don't have the punch to just whip around a car like a sportsbike does.

Up to 50mph the acceleration is brisk, above 50mph a more gentle increase in speed.

You have to adjust your riding if coming from bigger bikes.

But for an everyday bike, they're just great.

I'd also not hesitate to set off on a long run/tour (Europe trip with missus in the planning)

Comfortable, economical, great storage (ADV350) decent weather protection, nice upright riding position for us oldies who can get back ache, neck ache. Most scooters you can stretch out your legs, or tuck them back, so nice to be able to change your leg position if on a long run.

I'm currently running my second ADV350, but looking at the new Voge 450cc as it looks great on paper, but concerned about warranty, I'm hearing stories about Voge refusing to cover battery failure in under 12 months. New Honda's now get 6 year warranty if you use Honda for servicing, similar deal to Toyota, but have to keep up the Honda servicing which has got more expensive now.

In the past I've had PCX125's, C400GT, two Forza 300's, and the very first Suzuki AN125 back in 1996.

I had trouble with the Bmw, but that seems to have been a one off, as there's plenty of happy owners about (I had one of the first one's)

I think the 300's. 350's are the sweet spot. The bigger 750 ADV, and 750 Forza's have less underseat storage, a chain to look after, and 45mpg. To me they are scooter styled proper bikes with auto gearboxes, but great if you need more power I guess.

I will ride a scoot for as long as I can still stand, balance, or see.

Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 28th September 07:40

Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 28th September 07:50

Edited by Trevor555 on Monday 28th September 07:55

[marcella]

I've also been looking at a scooter. Always been curious of the X-ADV. But came across the Zontes 368g, basically a ADV350 clone but comes with way more tech and about a grand cheaper, check them out.

[Steve_H80]

Using a GS just as a commuter is the wrong tool for the job, any 300+ scooter will do that commute easier, you'll be warmer and using much less fuel into the bargain.
They are a whole lot of fun to ride out of town and good to tour on if you still do that kind of riding, but you need to accept your riding mates who've never ridden a maxiscooter won't get it.

[nordboy]

Steve_H80 said:

Using a GS just as a commuter is the wrong tool for the job, any 300+ scooter will do that commute easier, you'll be warmer and using much less fuel into the bargain.
They are a whole lot of fun to ride out of town and good to tour on if you still do that kind of riding, but you need to accept your riding mates who've never ridden a maxiscooter won't get it.

I still get ridiculed by any biker mates. I 100% don't care tbh, there's nothing that I can't do that they do, well not until they're into 3 figure speeds, then I struggle a bit. But then mine is the 750cc, I'd certainly struggle on a long day out on a 300cc. But I have done bike rallies on my scooter and did pass a load more bikes than passed me during the day.

I agree though, after riding bikes for work and leisure for over 25 yrs I eventually sold all my bikes once I had a scooter, just didn't use them, the scooter was almost always better and more practical for what I needed it for.

I do find myself looking at bikes now and again, but then forget it for a while as my XADV is just brilliant.


And Trevor555 that Voge scooter does look like a lot of scooter for the money? The spec is very good, the BMW version with that spec would be double the price. I wonder how well it would hold up to year round use though?

[Trevor555]

nordboy said:

And Trevor555 that Voge scooter does look like a lot of scooter for the money? The spec is very good, the BMW version with that spec would be double the price. I wonder how well it would hold up to year round use though?

It does look good in theory, but yes, concerned about build quality, and warranty.

I'm planning to go and see one at the Birmingham show, my local dealel isn't ordering any of the 450 scooters, they don't think they'll sell, which is odd as they look amazing on paper for a mid range scoot with a rubber band.

Bmw I could never entertain ever again. I can cope with a fault if they fixed it, but after attempting to fix they turned round and said "it performs as expected" and just pulled the shutters down on me. The most awful behavior I've ever seen in my 37 years in the the motor trade. Even once I got my own diagnosis they still refused the refund. Got there in the end after 7 months with a bike that was not usable/safe.

[LosingGrip]

Steve_H80 said:

Using a GS just as a commuter is the wrong tool for the job, any 300+ scooter will do that commute easier, you'll be warmer and using much less fuel into the bargain.
They are a whole lot of fun to ride out of town and good to tour on if you still do that kind of riding, but you need to accept your riding mates who've never ridden a maxiscooter won't get it.

To be fair I didnt buy it for that purpose. Had plans to do holidays and all sorts...then broke up with my ex and met soneone else with a kid...now that is a distant dream ha.

Plus I get to ride at work so its purely used to get to and from work now. Once it goes i wont be getting another.

[itcaptainslow]

Trevor555 said:

nordboy said:

And Trevor555 that Voge scooter does look like a lot of scooter for the money? The spec is very good, the BMW version with that spec would be double the price. I wonder how well it would hold up to year round use though?

It does look good in theory, but yes, concerned about build quality, and warranty.

I'm planning to go and see one at the Birmingham show, my local dealel isn't ordering any of the 450 scooters, they don't think they'll sell, which is odd as they look amazing on paper for a mid range scoot with a rubber band.

Bmw I could never entertain ever again. I can cope with a fault if they fixed it, but after attempting to fix they turned round and said "it performs as expected" and just pulled the shutters down on me. The most awful behavior I've ever seen in my 37 years in the the motor trade. Even once I got my own diagnosis they still refused the refund. Got there in the end after 7 months with a bike that was not usable/safe.

What was the fault out of interest?

[TurboHatchback]

I'm currently scooter-curious for similar reasons. I have a big bike which is great but expensive to run, gets hot in traffic and feels wasted on urban runaround duties. The 300-450cc mid-size scooters seem to offer a sweet spot of price, performance, running costs and practicality that make them quite appealing.

[Trevor555]

itcaptainslow said:

Trevor555 said:

nordboy said:

And Trevor555 that Voge scooter does look like a lot of scooter for the money? The spec is very good, the BMW version with that spec would be double the price. I wonder how well it would hold up to year round use though?

It does look good in theory, but yes, concerned about build quality, and warranty.

I'm planning to go and see one at the Birmingham show, my local dealel isn't ordering any of the 450 scooters, they don't think they'll sell, which is odd as they look amazing on paper for a mid range scoot with a rubber band.

Bmw I could never entertain ever again. I can cope with a fault if they fixed it, but after attempting to fix they turned round and said "it performs as expected" and just pulled the shutters down on me. The most awful behavior I've ever seen in my 37 years in the the motor trade. Even once I got my own diagnosis they still refused the refund. Got there in the end after 7 months with a bike that was not usable/safe.

What was the fault out of interest?

Hi, it was a broken shock absorber, probably over tightened when the bike was built?

My local Bmw dealer missed it, even though he said to me "it's strange, it does it one way, but not the other" They initially changed all the rubber bits around the rear end.

He said he'll talk to Bmw technical, then I got the "it performs as expected" and they I got nowhere, initially.

Symptoms were vibration upon cornering, worse one way, and a vibration at speed when initially changing direction.

The second Bmw dealer the bike went to spotted it instantly, and Bmw still fought me.

Was unbelievable behavior from Bmw.

[Trevor555]

TurboHatchback said:

I'm currently scooter-curious for similar reasons. I have a big bike which is great but expensive to run, gets hot in traffic and feels wasted on urban runaround duties. The 300-450cc mid-size scooters seem to offer a sweet spot of price, performance, running costs and practicality that make them quite appealing.

If coming from sportsbike like I also did, then look at the ADV350 for the simple reason it has motorbike style, full length, forks.

I quickly found the low limits on my Forza 300's due to the half length forks they have.

ADV has proper Showa forks, ir rides more like a motorcycle, than a scooter.

[croyde]

Had both a Vespa 300 and a 530cc Yamaha T Max in the past.

Both would be absolutely fine for a 25 mile each way commute but the Yamaha would be better. Pretty quick and is great fun on the twisties.

[carinaman]

Trevor555 said:

<snip>

Was unbelievable behavior from Bmw.

Given the rider safety aspects, let alone customer satisfaction aspects that's appalling.

[Trevor555]

carinaman said:

Trevor555 said:

<snip>

Was unbelievable behavior from Bmw.

Given the rider safety aspects, let alone customer satisfaction aspects that's appalling.

Yes, I was shocked.

Our local finance rep was shocked also, but he gave me the advice that got me my refund, the FCA.

[nordboy]

carinaman said:

Trevor555 said:

<snip>

Was unbelievable behavior from Bmw.

Given the rider safety aspects, let alone customer satisfaction aspects that's appalling.

BMW only designs their scooters, I think they're built by a chinese company. And I know Kymco used to build the 650 scooters for BMW. The only one they build in house is the electric one CE04 I think.

[itcaptainslow]

carinaman said:

Trevor555 said:

<snip>

Was unbelievable behavior from Bmw.

Given the rider safety aspects, let alone customer satisfaction aspects that's appalling.

Pretty poor that BMW still denied there was anything wrong even though one of their dealers diagnosed the fault!?