Reverse rotating rotors........
Discussion
Anyone know anything about this?
PATENTED COUNTER-ROTATING BRAKE ROTORS IN DEVELOPMENT
Fort Myers, Florida – Inventor Robby Kasten is proud to introduce new technology for motorcycles that can eliminate speed-related steering effort while increasing stability. Imagine a 1000cc superbike that turns easier at speed than a 125 Grand Prix bike. With Counter-Rotating Brake Rotors, steering effort can be the same at 20 mph as it is at 200 mph, while eliminating the possibility of tank slap. This new, patented technology is in the last stages of prototype development and is set for testing in March of 2006.
"This is an exciting time for us," said Kasten. "Soon, for the first time ever, we will be riding a motorcycle that changes lean angle almost effortlessly, regardless of speed. The system is very stock-looking, which was intentional. It will be bizarre enough when people see the rotor spin backwards.”
Solid Design Solutions, Inc. of Coral Springs, Florida was hired for development of the first fully functional prototype, and has done a superb job in meeting all of the goals set by Robby Kasten, the inventor. The services of Eagle Machine, who develop parts for land speed record holders, have also been enlisted in the project.
For more information, please visit www.reverserotatingrotors.com
"Performance Claims
#1 A motorcycle equipped with reverse rotating rotors can change lean
angle as easily at 180 m.p.h. as it can at 20 m.p.h.. Effort can be adjusted
to rider preference.
#2 It is impossible for a motorcycle that is equipped with reverse rotating
rotors to tank slap. This is because the energy that causes a tank slapper
is a result of the gyroscopic precession of the front wheel in sequence
with rapid lean angle changes caused by the bike the front wheel or both
being misaligned with the path of travel. If that force is canceled out then
a tank slapper is impossible.
#3 Braking feel is improved and braking effort reduced due to a dynamic
increase in the swept area of the braking surface. This is because the
rotors are spun faster in reverse in order to cancel the gyroscopic force of
the wheel and tire."
>> Edited by catso on Friday 17th February 15:56
PATENTED COUNTER-ROTATING BRAKE ROTORS IN DEVELOPMENT
Fort Myers, Florida – Inventor Robby Kasten is proud to introduce new technology for motorcycles that can eliminate speed-related steering effort while increasing stability. Imagine a 1000cc superbike that turns easier at speed than a 125 Grand Prix bike. With Counter-Rotating Brake Rotors, steering effort can be the same at 20 mph as it is at 200 mph, while eliminating the possibility of tank slap. This new, patented technology is in the last stages of prototype development and is set for testing in March of 2006.
"This is an exciting time for us," said Kasten. "Soon, for the first time ever, we will be riding a motorcycle that changes lean angle almost effortlessly, regardless of speed. The system is very stock-looking, which was intentional. It will be bizarre enough when people see the rotor spin backwards.”
Solid Design Solutions, Inc. of Coral Springs, Florida was hired for development of the first fully functional prototype, and has done a superb job in meeting all of the goals set by Robby Kasten, the inventor. The services of Eagle Machine, who develop parts for land speed record holders, have also been enlisted in the project.
For more information, please visit www.reverserotatingrotors.com
"Performance Claims
#1 A motorcycle equipped with reverse rotating rotors can change lean
angle as easily at 180 m.p.h. as it can at 20 m.p.h.. Effort can be adjusted
to rider preference.
#2 It is impossible for a motorcycle that is equipped with reverse rotating
rotors to tank slap. This is because the energy that causes a tank slapper
is a result of the gyroscopic precession of the front wheel in sequence
with rapid lean angle changes caused by the bike the front wheel or both
being misaligned with the path of travel. If that force is canceled out then
a tank slapper is impossible.
#3 Braking feel is improved and braking effort reduced due to a dynamic
increase in the swept area of the braking surface. This is because the
rotors are spun faster in reverse in order to cancel the gyroscopic force of
the wheel and tire."
>> Edited by catso on Friday 17th February 15:56
Am I right in thinking that it's basically the front brake disks rotating the opposite way to the wheels?
If so, I suspect it would feel mighty strange to ride and the bike would lose all stability at speed.....I'm not sure though as you do get a lot of gyro forces from the engine itself.
I'm mildly intrigued.
ETA - too slow - catso's now said this
>> Edited by Carrera2 on Friday 17th February 16:26
If so, I suspect it would feel mighty strange to ride and the bike would lose all stability at speed.....I'm not sure though as you do get a lot of gyro forces from the engine itself.
I'm mildly intrigued.
ETA - too slow - catso's now said this
>> Edited by Carrera2 on Friday 17th February 16:26
desmo said:
don' actually think I want my bike to steer as quickly at 180 as it does at 20! Also, as others have mentioned, if you reduce the gyroscopic force of the wheels, surely you reduce the stability of the machine? sounds dangerous to me.
The rotors still have the same gyroscopic effect regardless of whether they are going forward or backward. (Connecting two gyroscopes together, running in opposote directions, doesn't cancel out the effect of inertia) All you are doing is creating a bunch of friction by the gearing needed to rotate them the opposite way the wheel is going. Imagine the effort needed to rotate a front wheel at high speed compared to a 'normal' bike.
I think the website is a hoax, or sales bull.
morrisman said:
The rotors still have the same gyroscopic effect regardless of whether they are going forward or backward. (Connecting two gyroscopes together, running in opposote directions, doesn't cancel out the effect of inertia)
You sure about that? They should precess in opposite directions which means they will try to turn the opposite way; they'll oppose each other.
It does also say that the rider can choose the effectiveness, so as Peter says that implies some kind of gearbox which may be user-configurable for the backwards rotation speed.
what would be neat would be a CVT gearbox so the effect was greatest at certain speeds (user configurable) and least at say 180mph where the stability ws important ..? a simple PIC / driver circuit and stepper motor would sort that out nicely ...
what would be neat would be a CVT gearbox so the effect was greatest at certain speeds (user configurable) and least at say 180mph where the stability ws important ..? a simple PIC / driver circuit and stepper motor would sort that out nicely ...
GreenV8S said:
The rotors still have the same gyroscopic effect regardless of whether they are going forward or backward. (Connecting two gyroscopes together, running in opposite directions, doesn't cancel out the effect of inertia)
You sure about that?
No, I'm not actually
I've just been doing some surfing to look into it, and it appears there have been experiments that prove you can remove the gyroscopic effect completly by running two gyroscopes on the same axis and next to each other. We live and learn (especially when I'm bored at work)
www.mariner.connectfree.co.uk/html/gyro.htm
"Many other arrangements are possible - two contra-rotating flywheels close to each other on the same axis will do the trick; the gyroscopic moments cancel out but the angular moments add"
I think that it's already been done. After some serious searching (knew I'd heard of it before) I found a picture of a 1978 Bimota with front discs geared to rotate in the opposite direction to counter brake dive. The caption says it's a '1978 Bimota (Harley-Davidson) 500cc race bike, with a 90BHP two-stroke, water cooled twin engine'.
No idea how successful it was though.
I know it seems to have been done for different reasons (brake dive as opposed to ease and speed of direction change), but think that the end result would be quite similar?
I don't really get how it would help with brake dive, but that's a whole different question!
No idea how successful it was though.
I know it seems to have been done for different reasons (brake dive as opposed to ease and speed of direction change), but think that the end result would be quite similar?
I don't really get how it would help with brake dive, but that's a whole different question!
srob said:
I don't really get how it would help with brake dive, but that's a whole different question!
I've had some people tell me that metric bikes started having their brake calipers put on the back of the forks to stop brake dive......
I never even attempted to tell them why it makes no difference
I've seen a few bikes with the brake caliper located vertically by a link to the sprung side of the headset, that gives you as much anti-dive as you want.
Edited to add: caliper behind the axle obviously; caliper in front would give you even more dive.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Monday 27th February 20:05
Edited to add: caliper behind the axle obviously; caliper in front would give you even more dive.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Monday 27th February 20:05
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff