Bottle, or lack of .........
Discussion
Obviously I'm still new to this biking malark, and the weather is making this worse, but I still fear tipping the bike over in corners.
The rear tyres has a good inch either side which has not been touched.
Is this something that just comes with practice or is it something you have to force yourself to do ?
I'm loads better than 2 weeks ago, but still feel a bit 'scared'.
It didn't help when a CBR600RR flew past me on a roundabout using every mm of his tyres
On a positive note though I got the bike upto 132mph at the weekend (private road obviously).
The rear tyres has a good inch either side which has not been touched.
Is this something that just comes with practice or is it something you have to force yourself to do ?
I'm loads better than 2 weeks ago, but still feel a bit 'scared'.
It didn't help when a CBR600RR flew past me on a roundabout using every mm of his tyres
On a positive note though I got the bike upto 132mph at the weekend (private road obviously).
Glad you said this....Cause I have about the same! It's not the leaning over that worries me, it's a sudden change in road surface, or a pot hole or something...Just feel that would be enough to let the front go. I even thought about changing the tyres to get some nice sticky ones!!
So come on all those masters, what's the trick.....Just practise, or tuck those elbows in and give it some??
Cheers.
So come on all those masters, what's the trick.....Just practise, or tuck those elbows in and give it some??
Cheers.
I would say that the most likely issue is that you are trying too hard. This is making you tense and you’re probably going into the corners a little faster than you would like.
Suggestions:
1. Slow down and relax.
2. Drop one gear lower than you are using at the moment.
3. Concentrate on making the ride smooth and controlled.
4. Ensure that all your braking/decelerating/gear selection is done before the corner and that you enter the corner on a neutral throttle. As the corner opens out gently and smoothly open the throttle.
5. Ensure you are looking “through” the corner. Don’t focus on the kerb/bank/white line directly in front of your front wheel.
By doing this you will find that corners become easier, smother and thus quicker. It’ll take a little bit of practice but it will be worth it!
Best of luck
David
Suggestions:
1. Slow down and relax.
2. Drop one gear lower than you are using at the moment.
3. Concentrate on making the ride smooth and controlled.
4. Ensure that all your braking/decelerating/gear selection is done before the corner and that you enter the corner on a neutral throttle. As the corner opens out gently and smoothly open the throttle.
5. Ensure you are looking “through” the corner. Don’t focus on the kerb/bank/white line directly in front of your front wheel.
By doing this you will find that corners become easier, smother and thus quicker. It’ll take a little bit of practice but it will be worth it!
Best of luck
David
to K1's post and buy a copy of "A twist of the wrist" by Keith Code and remember to look where you want to go black-k1 said:
I would say that the most likely issue is that you are trying too hard. This is making you tense and you’re probably going into the corners a little faster than you would like.
Suggestions:
1. Slow down and relax.
2. Drop one gear lower than you are using at the moment.
3. Concentrate on making the ride smooth and controlled.
4. Ensure that all your braking/decelerating/gear selection is done before the corner and that you enter the corner on a neutral throttle. As the corner opens out gently and smoothly open the throttle.
5. Ensure you are looking “through” the corner. Don’t focus on the kerb/bank/white line directly in front of your front wheel.
By doing this you will find that corners become easier, smother and thus quicker. It’ll take a little bit of practice but it will be worth it!
Best of luck
David
Hmmm, that rings a few bells... Slowing down, in my book, is giving in!!! I try and look around the corner, but I do catch myself looking ahead of the front wheel!! I'll gwet practicing..
Hobo, does this ring any bells with you??
I'm not sure really what the main problem is.
As I said before, I'm not sure whether its just down to it being my first bike & still wary about grip levels, etc, etc.
I look around the corners & accelerate through them, but at a certain point back off & yet know that I am nowhere near the edge of the tyre (or therefore grip).
Its just a physcological thing I presume. But how do you get over it ?
As I said before, I'm not sure whether its just down to it being my first bike & still wary about grip levels, etc, etc.
I look around the corners & accelerate through them, but at a certain point back off & yet know that I am nowhere near the edge of the tyre (or therefore grip).
Its just a physcological thing I presume. But how do you get over it ?
hobo said:
....I'm not sure whether its just down to it being my first bike & still wary about grip levels, etc, etc.
I look around the corners & accelerate through them, but at a certain point back off & yet know that I am nowhere near the edge of the tyre (or therefore grip).
Yes & yes probably.......the roads are cold & covered in s
t - personally speaking I don't think now is really the best time to be trying to wear off chicken strips! Leave it a few weeks untill (hopefully) it's warmer & just use the mean time to get used to the way the bike feels. Build yourself up gradually rather than trying to better personal goals straight away - there's a time & a place for that ie: trackday 
hobo said:
I look around the corners & accelerate through them, but at a certain point back off & yet know that I am nowhere near the edge of the tyre (or therefore grip).
If you are having to back off then you have gone in too fast and/or are opening the throttle too quickly.
While the bike may be capable of cornering much faster, you are not. Riding at or near your limit is only helping to frighten you and make you even more tense. This, in turn, is making it harder to “get things right”. Vicious circle!
Relax and slow down. Concentrate on being smooth and gentle.
I try and imagine that I have a full glass of water balanced on the tank and that my aim is to get round the corner whilst spilling as little water as possible. Once I can string together 10 or so consecutive corners with “minimal spillage” then I’ll look at picking the pace up slightly. If I feel there would have been “spillage” in 1 corner in the next 10 then I’ll slow back down and start the process again.
There will always be people who are naturally faster than you. There will always be people who will take more risks than you. (They’ll even get away with those risks most of the time!!!) If, at any time, you are not happy with the way you are riding then slow down and concentrate on getting things right rather than worrying about where the limit is and how close you can get to it.
Enjoy and ride safe.
black-k1 said:
I look around the corners & accelerate through them, but at a certain point back off & yet know that I am nowhere near the edge of the tyre (or therefore grip).
If you are having to back off then you have gone in too fast and/or are opening the throttle too quickly.
While the bike may be capable of cornering much faster, you are not. Riding at or near your limit is only helping to frighten you and make you even more tense. This, in turn, is making it harder to “get things right”. Vicious circle!
Relax and slow down. Concentrate on being smooth and gentle.
I try and imagine that I have a full glass of water balanced on the tank and that my aim is to get round the corner whilst spilling as little water as possible. Once I can string together 10 or so consecutive corners with “minimal spillage” then I’ll look at picking the pace up slightly. If I feel there would have been “spillage” in 1 corner in the next 10 then I’ll slow back down and start the process again.
There will always be people who are naturally faster than you. There will always be people who will take more risks than you. (They’ll even get away with those risks most of the time!!!) If, at any time, you are not happy with the way you are riding then slow down and concentrate on getting things right rather than worrying about where the limit is and how close you can get to it.
Enjoy and ride safe.
Sound advice. May I just say....David, you have posted many replies to my questions in the past, and whilst I think that 99.9% of people on here post well written, constructive posts, I really appreciate the time you take to post such good threads. Many thanks.
edited to say....Wasn't actually MY post...Sorry Hobo!!
>> Edited by chilli on Monday 20th March 11:24
Many thanks for your kind works. I have always enjoyed the camaraderie that is part of riding a motorcycle and Piston Heads Biking “team” are a great demonstration that the camaraderie is still alive and well. I always look forward to reading others thoughts and comments on PH so I’m flattered that someone else enjoys reading mine. 
PS Sorry Hobo for the thread hijack!
PS Sorry Hobo for the thread hijack!
I came across a lad many years ago who bragged that he'd get his knee down at every opportunity and tried to take the "michael" out of anyone without sliders.
He soon stopped bragging when we pointed out that he was hanging so far off the bike going around corners that the bike was almost vertical! He also had a 2" virgin strip on both sides of the tyre.......
His final fall from grace was when another mate stuffed him up the inside on a Harley. He'd all the gear but no idea.
Just remember to gain confidence slowly and then get yourself on a basic race school day.
He soon stopped bragging when we pointed out that he was hanging so far off the bike going around corners that the bike was almost vertical! He also had a 2" virgin strip on both sides of the tyre.......
His final fall from grace was when another mate stuffed him up the inside on a Harley. He'd all the gear but no idea.
Just remember to gain confidence slowly and then get yourself on a basic race school day.
sybaseian said:
Just remember to gain confidence slowly and then get yourself on a basic race school day.
Andy Ibbott and the guys at the Califoria Superbike School aer really helpful, and their courses are designed to break topics down into small, easy to practice drills. They'll have you cornering more confidently in no time.
PS if you do think you've gone in too fast, DON'T come of the throttle, as you'll a) stand the bike up, and hence scare yourself more for fear of going through the nearest hedge, b) transfer all the load to the front tyre. Even if you keep the bike held into the corner with counter-steering, you may overwhelm the available grip on the front tyre as all the weight moves forwards! If possible try and keep a steady throttle, and gently apply it(!). This is easier said than done until you get used to it.
Being smooth and thinking about weight trasnfer will also help you think about when to apply throttle & brake.
Build up slowly though as has already been suggested.
Going on a trackday will not necesserily teach you anything, and could actually harm your confidence. If you do go on a trackday, forget your pride, go in the novice group, and see if you cvn grab one of the (usually free) instructors for a session or two. This will help you a lot.
Book a trackday!!..the extra confidence and grip you get from the smooth grippy tarmac is what you need when feeling your way to knee down...I wouldn`t recommend trying to wear the tyres right to the edge on the road...it`s just too rough/greasy/dusty...
Do hang off like a lunatic though as it makes it far easier..
A minimoto session on a go kart track is a sly confidence/skill builder and the skills translate well to bigger bikes...
Do hang off like a lunatic though as it makes it far easier..
A minimoto session on a go kart track is a sly confidence/skill builder and the skills translate well to bigger bikes...
sybaseian said:
I came across a lad many years ago who bragged that he'd get his knee down at every opportunity and tried to take the "michael" out of anyone without sliders.
He soon stopped bragging when we pointed out that he was hanging so far off the bike going around corners that the bike was almost vertical! He also had a 2" virgin strip on both sides of the tyre.......
His final fall from grace was when another mate stuffed him up the inside on a Harley. He'd all the gear but no idea.
.
As the saying goes, "it aint what you got but how you use it that counts!"
sybaseian said:
Just remember to gain confidence slowly and then get yourself on a basic race school day.
Wise words. Getting somebody to tell you how to do things correctly then watch what you are doing and to offer advice on how to improve is a very good idea. You could also try a number of the advanced road training courses.
F.M said:
Book a trackday!!..the extra confidence and grip you get from the smooth grippy tarmac is what you need when feeling your way to knee down...I wouldn`t recommend trying to wear the tyres right to the edge on the road...it`s just too rough/greasy/dusty...
Do hang off like a lunatic though as it makes it far easier..
A minimoto session on a go kart track is a sly confidence/skill builder and the skills translate well to bigger bikes...
I'm going to have to disagree with your post. A trackday is not the place to start learning to lean a bike over properly for the first time, let alone trying to get a knee down as well. A quick session on a basic race school with an instructor would be much better for confidence building as he would not have to worry about the occasional lunatic cutting him up and stuffing up the inside, plus the instructor would help correct any errors with throttle, brakes and lines.
By all means go on a trackday, but I'd leave it till later in the summer after he has more confidence leaning, counter steering and transfering his weight around and off the bike. If he really wants to get even more confidence, I'd go on a wet trackday as that always sorts out your riding finesse.
[quote]
Wise words. Getting somebody to tell you how to do things correctly then watch what you are doing and to offer advice on how to improve is a very good idea. You could also try a number of the advanced road training courses.
[/quote]
Lessons learnt the hard way over 23 years of riding and falling off......
sybaseian said:
Just remember to gain confidence slowly and then get yourself on a basic race school day.
Wise words. Getting somebody to tell you how to do things correctly then watch what you are doing and to offer advice on how to improve is a very good idea. You could also try a number of the advanced road training courses.
[/quote]
Lessons learnt the hard way over 23 years of riding and falling off......
hobo said:
Obviously I'm still new to this biking malark, and the weather is making this worse, but I still fear tipping the bike over in corners.
The rear tyres has a good inch either side which has not been touched.
Is this something that just comes with practice or is it something you have to force yourself to do ?
I'm loads better than 2 weeks ago, but still feel a bit 'scared'.
It didn't help when a CBR600RR flew past me on a roundabout using every mm of his tyres
On a positive note though I got the bike upto 132mph at the weekend (private road obviously).
Get drunk! You'll be surprised how much better you can ride when you have had a few beers!
You'll also find you can dance expertly, tell jokes like a pro, pull women with ease and be ten foot tall and bulletproof when the agro starts
It also makes a huge difference what bike and tyre you're using. To get a new R6 to the edge of the tread is a bit, erm 
You'll be much better off on that lovely grippy track sticking to 3rd or 4th most of the way round to get used to smoothness/throttle control and it'll also help you to relax when you're not pushing so much.
Don't worry about the tyre, just concentrate on looking/planning ahead (which is much easier on a track) and not fixating on hazards, but on seeing line you want to take.
You've booked into the right group and should ask for some tuition when we get there. I'm looking forwards to it already mate.
BTW, 132 - you bloody girl
You'll be much better off on that lovely grippy track sticking to 3rd or 4th most of the way round to get used to smoothness/throttle control and it'll also help you to relax when you're not pushing so much.
Don't worry about the tyre, just concentrate on looking/planning ahead (which is much easier on a track) and not fixating on hazards, but on seeing line you want to take.
You've booked into the right group and should ask for some tuition when we get there. I'm looking forwards to it already mate.
BTW, 132 - you bloody girl
Hobo, almost everybody starts off lacking a little confidence, it is just lack of experience really. It is important to ride at your own pace, do not get drawn into riding faster than you feel comfortable with if out with mates or on your own. I took a while to get confidence while cornering, an advanced course is a good idea. Helped me anyway.
Do you know about "counter steering" and "the vanishing point". These are important techniques. Also, as others have said, keep relaxed, tension transfers to the bars and you end up fighting yourself to steer the bike.
An ex racer and champion told me that your grip on the bars should like holding to hold a budgie in your hand, tight enough to stop it flying away, yet not so tight as to squash it!
Always remember, you go where you look, so it is vital that you look where you want to go, especially if you think you've gone in too fast. Generally it's the rider that puts the bike off the road, not the bike.
Don't worry about the edge of the tyres, especially on the road at this time of year.
Do you know about "counter steering" and "the vanishing point". These are important techniques. Also, as others have said, keep relaxed, tension transfers to the bars and you end up fighting yourself to steer the bike.
An ex racer and champion told me that your grip on the bars should like holding to hold a budgie in your hand, tight enough to stop it flying away, yet not so tight as to squash it!
Always remember, you go where you look, so it is vital that you look where you want to go, especially if you think you've gone in too fast. Generally it's the rider that puts the bike off the road, not the bike.
Don't worry about the edge of the tyres, especially on the road at this time of year.
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