What group does everybody run in on track days?
Discussion
I've made it my goal to eventually ride in the advanced group on track days at Snetterton. I've done two track days so far this year with a 3rd booked in October. I was told by one of the instructors I should move up to the intermediates as I was being held up in the corners...
What group does everybody else run in and, for those in the advanced group, what's it like
and how long did it take to become that good!?
Rob.
What group does everybody else run in and, for those in the advanced group, what's it like
and how long did it take to become that good!? Rob.
Inters are a bit of an odd bunch IMO. Half of then are no quicker than half of the beginners group. I suspect they just think because they've been doing it for so long that they must be better.
Last time I was at Cadwell a guy next to me, on an R6 with slicks, race fairing, etc, got moved down from Inters to beginners for not being quick enough. The shame
Even some of the advanced don't look 'that' quick, although they do look very smooth & don't seem to have as many 'moments'.
You have to go to a trackday where there's a race group to see the really quick riders. One of the first days I did was set up as follows:
Group 1 - Beginners
Group 2 - Inters/Advanced
Group 3 - Racers
F@ck me, they were quick. No fear.
I think if you're a good rider on unfamiliar track then the inters group would be a good choice. If however you're a good rider on a track you know like the back of your hand then you won't embarrass yourself in the advanced.
Unfortunately for me I ain't a good rider so stick to the inters group at Cadwell (as I know it) & would probably go in beginners at other tracks until I got to know them a bit.
Each to thier own though. Just remember, there will always be someone quicker than you whatever group you're in
Last time I was at Cadwell a guy next to me, on an R6 with slicks, race fairing, etc, got moved down from Inters to beginners for not being quick enough. The shame
Even some of the advanced don't look 'that' quick, although they do look very smooth & don't seem to have as many 'moments'.
You have to go to a trackday where there's a race group to see the really quick riders. One of the first days I did was set up as follows:
Group 1 - Beginners
Group 2 - Inters/Advanced
Group 3 - Racers
F@ck me, they were quick. No fear.
I think if you're a good rider on unfamiliar track then the inters group would be a good choice. If however you're a good rider on a track you know like the back of your hand then you won't embarrass yourself in the advanced.
Unfortunately for me I ain't a good rider so stick to the inters group at Cadwell (as I know it) & would probably go in beginners at other tracks until I got to know them a bit.
Each to thier own though. Just remember, there will always be someone quicker than you whatever group you're in
Inters is OK but IMHO it depends which track day organiser you are with.
Some are strict about standards of riding and ability and therefore you get to ride with people of relatively similar standards. However others are not so strict and you can get mixed abilities riding in the different groups. It happens a lot where you get 2 or 3 people sharing a track bike, they are all part time racers and scare the s... out of you at every opportunity.
Some are strict about standards of riding and ability and therefore you get to ride with people of relatively similar standards. However others are not so strict and you can get mixed abilities riding in the different groups. It happens a lot where you get 2 or 3 people sharing a track bike, they are all part time racers and scare the s... out of you at every opportunity.
Couple of stories......
Mate accross the road is effing great on a bike. Chicken strips lost 10 years ago, and even the tyre walls have stone marks! Anyways, he was "on it" at Cadwell only to be passed on the outsude of a bend by one of the instructors who waved at him on the way past!!
Another guy who I know (CBR600, and a great rider), offered an "old dear" on her pile of crud, to go in front of him at the beginning of the day.....She just replied "it's ok dear, I'll go past you when I'm ready to"...and she did!!!
Little girls group for me, all the way!!! Well, it will be when I eventually get onto the track!
Mate accross the road is effing great on a bike. Chicken strips lost 10 years ago, and even the tyre walls have stone marks! Anyways, he was "on it" at Cadwell only to be passed on the outsude of a bend by one of the instructors who waved at him on the way past!!
Another guy who I know (CBR600, and a great rider), offered an "old dear" on her pile of crud, to go in front of him at the beginning of the day.....She just replied "it's ok dear, I'll go past you when I'm ready to"...and she did!!!
Little girls group for me, all the way!!! Well, it will be when I eventually get onto the track!
Used to hang about the beginner group but forayed into intermediate last year and wondered what all the fuss was although it does tend to have a larger ability range from very fast to `not so fast`....
I like the fast group now as they are on it from lap 1 and you get a good tussle plus you learn to go increase your limits as you chase down the boys on slicks and stuff`im on the brakes (very satisfying..
)
I like the fast group now as they are on it from lap 1 and you get a good tussle plus you learn to go increase your limits as you chase down the boys on slicks and stuff`im on the brakes (very satisfying..
)
Started trackdaying in 2000, Novice group for the first few ... Now in the fast group, race prepped ZX10R - Snetterton in 1.15/1.16 ..
You need to do these things:
1) Relax
2) Relax some more
3) Ride within YOUR limits
4) Start slowly, develop confidence, get instruction on every track day (as a refresher)
5) Learn the lines around a track - it makes a huge difference to the laptime and ease at which you can do it.
5) Get faster ( you will ) - find someone a little faster and work upto it. If it feels frightening or scary or out of control move down - dont be ashamned ! If it feels ragged then your doing something important wrong ! My fastest laps always feel surreal -- like I'm not trying - dont know why -- its called being relaxed.
6) Move to the Inters when you are in top 20% in Novice and Fast when in the top 10% of Inters in my humble opinion - you will think everything around you is very fast but you'll be surprised how quickly you develop your skills amongst a few faster riders.
7) The fast groups are occupied by racers and trackdayers with some experience - its very initimidating at first but once you get used to it its not so bad. The difference is how close people tend to get to each other in the fast group (its the racer community doing what comes natural etc) --- definately a surprise for the first few events !
The spread of speed in any group can be huge -- was in the fast group at Snetterton a few weeks ago and their were some superstock racers doing 1.09, me at 1.16 and a guy sharing our garage 1.41 (should have been in inters!).
Ultimately your in control - -book yourself in a group you feel comfotable with - the organiser should sort you out - if you feel to fast/slow then go and see them and ask to be moved !
Most importantly, ENJOY, Take care, remember your not going to break the lap record so dont try !
You need to do these things:
1) Relax
2) Relax some more
3) Ride within YOUR limits
4) Start slowly, develop confidence, get instruction on every track day (as a refresher)
5) Learn the lines around a track - it makes a huge difference to the laptime and ease at which you can do it.
5) Get faster ( you will ) - find someone a little faster and work upto it. If it feels frightening or scary or out of control move down - dont be ashamned ! If it feels ragged then your doing something important wrong ! My fastest laps always feel surreal -- like I'm not trying - dont know why -- its called being relaxed.
6) Move to the Inters when you are in top 20% in Novice and Fast when in the top 10% of Inters in my humble opinion - you will think everything around you is very fast but you'll be surprised how quickly you develop your skills amongst a few faster riders.
7) The fast groups are occupied by racers and trackdayers with some experience - its very initimidating at first but once you get used to it its not so bad. The difference is how close people tend to get to each other in the fast group (its the racer community doing what comes natural etc) --- definately a surprise for the first few events !
The spread of speed in any group can be huge -- was in the fast group at Snetterton a few weeks ago and their were some superstock racers doing 1.09, me at 1.16 and a guy sharing our garage 1.41 (should have been in inters!).
Ultimately your in control - -book yourself in a group you feel comfotable with - the organiser should sort you out - if you feel to fast/slow then go and see them and ask to be moved !
Most importantly, ENJOY, Take care, remember your not going to break the lap record so dont try !
The biggest difference I found between novice and inters is that to go in inters you have to know racing lines etc and not move all over the track or everyone gets arsey with you.
Novice group has lots of people who don't know anything about track riding and will take weird and wonderful lines around the track.
Novice group has lots of people who don't know anything about track riding and will take weird and wonderful lines around the track.
Usually go in advanced. Might go in intermediate next time so I can have a butchers at Hobo to see how much he's come on since his first trackday in April.
Some very good observations already made too.
FWIW, I think behaviour has generally improved as people have had to clean their acts up. Tends to be less people pretending they're actually racing, at the days I've been to recently anyway.
Used to go to Cadwell with the Suzuki owners club and there was always a young lad on a race spec R1 (not long after they were launched). He'd never do the whole day, usually crashing beyond repair late in the morning sessions!
One thing I think should still happen though is some sort of scrutineering.
Some very good observations already made too.
FWIW, I think behaviour has generally improved as people have had to clean their acts up. Tends to be less people pretending they're actually racing, at the days I've been to recently anyway.
Used to go to Cadwell with the Suzuki owners club and there was always a young lad on a race spec R1 (not long after they were launched). He'd never do the whole day, usually crashing beyond repair late in the morning sessions!
One thing I think should still happen though is some sort of scrutineering.
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