Discussion
spdpug98 said:
I am after a bit of advice as I am thinking of PX'ing my old trusty CBR 600 for a Ducati 748, however I know nothing about Ducati's and what I need to look at before buying. Can anyone give me any advice of what to look for or know where I can look to find out..
Ride magazine (I think,I read it at work) this month strip a used 916 they bought for 3k, that should give you a head start before you go look.
Service history is everything - a well looked after Ducati can be a reliable bike but the correct maintenance is expensive so some don't do it.
Most important;
Cambelts - not an expensive part but need changing every 12,000 miles/2 years, if they break you will get major engine damage which could cost more to repair (at main dealer prices) than the bike is worth, so if you buy a Ducati and are not 110% certain that the belts are good then change them.
Valve clearance checks & adjustments - if neglected the bike will run bad but worse it will damage the rockers and cams.
Oil - Ducatis need thick oil to lube the (16) rockers on the desmo valvetrain so it is important to use the right stuff and change it regularly, good warming-up is useful too as the oil takes some time to circulate round the camshafts. That said Rocker failure is fairly common, the chrome plating is prone to flaking particularly on the higher revving 748's and although they're not expensive there's alot of them and it's a specialist job to change them - if they are left 'flaked' they will 'eat' the cams, which are expensive.
Voltage regulators - on pre-'99 bikes the voltage regulators are temporamental, in fact the entire charging system is 'dodgy' but they are usually OK if the connectors are checked, cleaned and lubed regularly and the fuel filter is changed regularly (otherwise fuel pump will draw too much current) it also helps if the battery is kept well charged.
I've had a 916 for nearly 9 years and, except for a few minor issues, it has been trouble-free but I have kept up with the (expensive) servicing, initially at a main dealer but more recently at a specialist who is not only cheaper but also much better.
I've only ridden a 748 once and it is a nice bike with the same handling as my 916 (if a little underpowered) and a nice screaming (for a twin) power delivery but my advice is that if you can stretch to the bigger engined variants (916, 996, 998) you'll appreciate that Ducati mid-range grunt much better.
Best of the bunch is the 998 as not only is it more powerful but it has the later 'Testastretta' engine which is more reliable, however I still like my 916.
My favourite Ducati forums are; www.ducati.ms/forums/cmps_index.php? and www.speedzilla.com/forums/index.php?
Most important;
Cambelts - not an expensive part but need changing every 12,000 miles/2 years, if they break you will get major engine damage which could cost more to repair (at main dealer prices) than the bike is worth, so if you buy a Ducati and are not 110% certain that the belts are good then change them.
Valve clearance checks & adjustments - if neglected the bike will run bad but worse it will damage the rockers and cams.
Oil - Ducatis need thick oil to lube the (16) rockers on the desmo valvetrain so it is important to use the right stuff and change it regularly, good warming-up is useful too as the oil takes some time to circulate round the camshafts. That said Rocker failure is fairly common, the chrome plating is prone to flaking particularly on the higher revving 748's and although they're not expensive there's alot of them and it's a specialist job to change them - if they are left 'flaked' they will 'eat' the cams, which are expensive.
Voltage regulators - on pre-'99 bikes the voltage regulators are temporamental, in fact the entire charging system is 'dodgy' but they are usually OK if the connectors are checked, cleaned and lubed regularly and the fuel filter is changed regularly (otherwise fuel pump will draw too much current) it also helps if the battery is kept well charged.
I've had a 916 for nearly 9 years and, except for a few minor issues, it has been trouble-free but I have kept up with the (expensive) servicing, initially at a main dealer but more recently at a specialist who is not only cheaper but also much better.
I've only ridden a 748 once and it is a nice bike with the same handling as my 916 (if a little underpowered) and a nice screaming (for a twin) power delivery but my advice is that if you can stretch to the bigger engined variants (916, 996, 998) you'll appreciate that Ducati mid-range grunt much better.
Best of the bunch is the 998 as not only is it more powerful but it has the later 'Testastretta' engine which is more reliable, however I still like my 916.
My favourite Ducati forums are; www.ducati.ms/forums/cmps_index.php? and www.speedzilla.com/forums/index.php?
catso said:
Voltage regulators - on pre-'99 bikes the voltage regulators are temporamental, in fact the entire charging system is 'dodgy' but they are usually OK if the connectors are checked, cleaned and lubed regularly and the fuel filter is changed regularly (otherwise fuel pump will draw too much current) it also helps if the battery is kept well charged.
My ST2's generator failed and it was only through stumbling upon a recall which had not been carried out (one which Ducai London hadn't even heard about) that I avoided a huge bill of circa £800+
Saving grace on the 748/916 etc is that there are plenty of them about so spares are available on ebay.
BTW, the wheels on your 916 look fabulous Catso.
Edited by rsvmilly on Wednesday 17th January 08:28
I bought a Honda SP1 last july, my friend bought a 748 at the same time.
I've had no problems, the 748 has had a lot of serious ones. It has been off the road more than on it. It could just be a bad example, I'm sure. I'm sorry for my friend as he really was excited about the bike.
shane
I've had no problems, the 748 has had a lot of serious ones. It has been off the road more than on it. It could just be a bad example, I'm sure. I'm sorry for my friend as he really was excited about the bike.
shane
could tell you lots and lots having owned one myself, but to get a full view from people that will give you all the answers I would suggest asking on here.
www.ducatisportingclub.com
www.ducatisportingclub.com
Lily said:
could tell you lots and lots having owned one myself, but to get a full view from people that will give you all the answers I would suggest asking on here.
www.ducatisportingclub.com
www.ducatisportingclub.com
Some good stuff on there, just waiting to see what they will give me for my CBR then a deal may be had
g_stacey said:
Yep £1200. Clutch, cam belt, tyres, pads and more as I remember. Honest.
My worst was £830 but that included £230 for tyres and 12,000m major service (at Baines)
catso said:
So more than just a service really.......
It is the belt services which push up the intervals and service costs on Dukes isn't it? My service costs for my R6 were £120 minor or £220 major. There is no getting away from the fact that Dukes are more expensive to to run.
rsvmilly said:
But what were you paying for a typical service including belts? Still £400+
It is the belt services which push up the intervals and service costs on Dukes isn't it? My service costs for my R6 were £120 minor or £220 major. There is no getting away from the fact that Dukes are more expensive to to run.
It is the belt services which push up the intervals and service costs on Dukes isn't it? My service costs for my R6 were £120 minor or £220 major. There is no getting away from the fact that Dukes are more expensive to to run.
Agreed they are expensive but £1200? Personally I wouldn't consider tyres, pads & clutch as service items and a Ducati's not going to use any more tyres & pads than any other bike - clutches maybe
My Most expensive belt/valve service was £550 at a main Dealer, my last belt service at an independent was £360 and that included valve adjustment, removing the camshafts to check for rocker wear, checking the flywheel nut torque and dismantling the rear hub to check for any problems plus normal service items - he even cleaned (properly) the bike! (some dealers don't bother removing the cams, and flywheel & Hub checks are not standard service items), the last service I had without belts was £220.
I intend to try and get it a bit cheaper this time as I will do more of the straightforward stuff (changing fuel filter, coolant, brake fluid etc) myself but I enjoy doing these things and like to 'get to know' a bike so really only need the specialist for the specialist jobs - I'd do them too if I had the skills but whilst I could manage the belts, I think the valves are a little too complex without some sort of training and even then you need a sh1tload of expensive tools.
catso said:
I intend to try and get it a bit cheaper this time as I will do more of the straightforward stuff (changing fuel filter, coolant, brake fluid etc) myself but I enjoy doing these things and like to 'get to know' a bike so really only need the specialist for the specialist jobs - I'd do them too if I had the skills but whilst I could manage the belts, I think the valves are a little too complex without some sort of training and even then you need a sh1tload of expensive tools.
I'll ask my College Tutor exactly what's involved at my next evening class. I doubt it's actually that complicated, but the desmo valve system is different to every other bike engine, so you would need to understand it well before attempting it for the first time. The main reason for the cost will be that it's labour intensive.
Steve.
Steve_T said:
I'll ask my College Tutor exactly what's involved at my next evening class. I doubt it's actually that complicated, but the desmo valve system is different to every other bike engine, so you would need to understand it well before attempting it for the first time. The main reason for the cost will be that it's labour intensive.
Steve.
Maybe not too complicated but you need special tools and all the adjustments are done using shims, so you need loads of 'em in different thicknesses and I think it would be a good thing to have someone show you how rather than learn by yourself on your own bike. I know one guy in the US who learned from haynes etc manuals but used a spare head he bought on ebay rather than his bike.
But as you say the main thing re the cost is the time taken to do it.
I agree it may be worth paying a Duke specialist to teach you, to avoid expensive mistakes. Re. the shims, you seldom need to change them all, it's often worth working out which swaps you can do between valves, so you only end up forking out for the ones you need. The alternative as you say is carrying all possible thicknesses - dealerships often keep your old shims, which is how they build their stock. I doubt most places carry all they may need these days, they just order when necessary, if they have one left from a previous service, bonus! Shims do not wear as they're extermemly hard (other bits of the engine wear in preference), so ask for yours back after a service. You may be able to reuse them at the next valve service.
You'll possibly find the factory has supplied a non-standard thickness of shim (falling between the regular size increments) to get the perfect clearances when the engine was built - these are often not marked with a thickness where standard shims tend to be. Just measure it and calculate your required new shim size. Ordering only what you need does mean there'll be a period of time in which your bike is off the road. I get around this with a two bike approach. Doing pretty much all my spannering means I save enough that this is probably less expensive than running one bike through a dealership. Good if you like spannering, bad because it does take time.
Steve.
You'll possibly find the factory has supplied a non-standard thickness of shim (falling between the regular size increments) to get the perfect clearances when the engine was built - these are often not marked with a thickness where standard shims tend to be. Just measure it and calculate your required new shim size. Ordering only what you need does mean there'll be a period of time in which your bike is off the road. I get around this with a two bike approach. Doing pretty much all my spannering means I save enough that this is probably less expensive than running one bike through a dealership. Good if you like spannering, bad because it does take time.
Steve.
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