Want to join the fun!
Discussion
Hi all I am 20 at the moment and although never seen the appeal of a bike have been working on a friends VFR 400 for the past week (he snapped the exhaust studs grrrr!!!) any way I started thinking that bikes sound like a bit of a laugh.
I have alot of expeience driving quick on 4 wheels (karting from the age of 10 so similar to bike but 4 wheels!) so fancy having a go at bikes.
My view of road driving is that with so many people not paying attention I wont last long! My idea is to buy a bike which if poss I can ride to a trackday blast around and then home again.
I'm assuming that like car trackdays you need a full uk licence to paticipate? (If not thaen a trailor may be a better idea)
So what are the options as far as licences go I've heard about direct access what is it and what can I ride? other options? Are intensive courses worth it bearing in mind I would probably buy the bike after aaquiring the licence. I work a 3 week on 3 week off rotation so doing the tuition during a week wouldnt pose a problem (asssuming it doesnt take 3 weeks!)
From looking at pictures I want to aspire to the R6 my friend saying this is certain suicide?! From my race experience I am all to aware of the dangeres so would learn to walk before running but is it worth buying a 400cc bike then moving up or will that become too slow very quickly?
I have alot of expeience driving quick on 4 wheels (karting from the age of 10 so similar to bike but 4 wheels!) so fancy having a go at bikes.
My view of road driving is that with so many people not paying attention I wont last long! My idea is to buy a bike which if poss I can ride to a trackday blast around and then home again.
I'm assuming that like car trackdays you need a full uk licence to paticipate? (If not thaen a trailor may be a better idea)
So what are the options as far as licences go I've heard about direct access what is it and what can I ride? other options? Are intensive courses worth it bearing in mind I would probably buy the bike after aaquiring the licence. I work a 3 week on 3 week off rotation so doing the tuition during a week wouldnt pose a problem (asssuming it doesnt take 3 weeks!)
From looking at pictures I want to aspire to the R6 my friend saying this is certain suicide?! From my race experience I am all to aware of the dangeres so would learn to walk before running but is it worth buying a 400cc bike then moving up or will that become too slow very quickly?
Penguin said:
Hi all I am 20 at the moment and although never seen the appeal of a bike have been working on a friends VFR 400 for the past week (he snapped the exhaust studs grrrr!!!) any way I started thinking that bikes sound like a bit of a laugh.
Bikes may seem a laugh but they have to be treated with respect, sorry to be a bit blunt but it's the truth.
Penguin said:
I have alot of expeience driving quick on 4 wheels (karting from the age of 10 so similar to bike but 4 wheels!) so fancy having a go at bikes.
Bikes are so far removed from karts you can't imagine the difference. I raced on an International level in karts for 10 years (early 80's to early 90's) and bikes are a completely different ball game.
Penguin said:
My view of road driving is that with so many people not paying attention I wont last long! My idea is to buy a bike which if poss I can ride to a trackday blast around and then home again.
Very good point about other road users but it's down to you how you ride and if you want to ride full bore everywhere then you won't last long, remember a bike will only go as quick as you turn the throttle. To answer the second part of the question a sports bike would be the right choice, but you will be limited as to what bike you can have due to the restrictions on power for a rider under 21.
Penguin said:
I'm assuming that like car trackdays you need a full uk licence to paticipate? (If not thaen a trailor may be a better idea)
Yes you do need a full UK bike licence to participate on a bike track day or an ACU Race licence, but I'm not sure if you would have the power restriction inflicted on a track day if still under 21, if there is no restriction for track ridng only you could quite happily use a 600cc or 1,000cc bike on track but you would not legally be able to ride it home. You can trailer a bike to any track regardless of licence, actually quite a good idea should anything happen to the bike.
Penguin said:
So what are the options as far as licences go I've heard about direct access what is it and what can I ride? other options? Are intensive courses worth it bearing in mind I would probably buy the bike after aaquiring the licence. I work a 3 week on 3 week off rotation so doing the tuition during a week wouldnt pose a problem (asssuming it doesnt take 3 weeks!)
I believe if under 21 you will be restricted to a 33 BHP bike and over 21 the sky's the limit but insurance will be a major factor in any budget especially with your age. Other replies will no doubt give more information about this.
Penguin said:
From looking at pictures I want to aspire to the R6 my friend saying this is certain suicide?! From my race experience I am all to aware of the dangeres so would learn to walk before running but is it worth buying a 400cc bike then moving up or will that become too slow very quickly?
No bike is slow, however, if you want to do track days then the R6 is a fantastic bike, I had an ex race R6 as a track bike.
Apologies if some words sound a bit grim but bikes are fun but also have to be respected.
Good luck,
Andy
Edited by Andy Oh on Thursday 15th March 18:47
Your Direct Access course will normaly be over a week from most places ie start monday test on friday.You would need to do the following CBT(compulsory basic training)a one day course.Then you need to do your theory test(even though you have done this for a car it has to be done for a bike).Then if you are 21 you can do your das test which is done on a 500cc bike.If you pass you can then ride whatever you want.If you are not 21 you can do the 33bhp restricted test and ride any cc bike but it has to have a 33bhp restrictor kit fitted.After a while i think this converts to full licence spec.
As above sorry but car,kart etc experiance means nothing when it comes to bikes.
Good luck if you go for it.
As above sorry but car,kart etc experiance means nothing when it comes to bikes.
Good luck if you go for it.
Edited by TPS on Thursday 15th March 19:14
Thanks for the honest replies. With respect to my race experience it has shown me that highspeed machines deserve respect thats all.
I'm not proclaiming to be the next Rossi just yet
I would be waiting until I was 21 before doing my test so what sort of bikes similar to the R6 would be worth looking at and ball park figures for insurance?
I'm not proclaiming to be the next Rossi just yet
I would be waiting until I was 21 before doing my test so what sort of bikes similar to the R6 would be worth looking at and ball park figures for insurance?
There is a thread on the other page where someone asked this that you could have a look at.For something like a R6 or sports bikes of that size i said be prepared to pay silly money.You are young you have no experiance and no no claims.I would say you will pay around the 1k mark and possibly only get third party fire and theft for that.It may be better to go for something like a Fazer 600 etc for the 1st year get some experiance and no claims then go from there.
You know what? And I'm likely to be shot down in flames here, especially as I'm still a learner in the great world of bikes, but this whole "fast car experience is no relation to bikes, bikes are that much faster" malarkey is starting to get my goat a little. It's true to some extent, but ONLY to SOME extent.
If someone comes from a fast (and I mean faaaast...not Saxo Warm hatch, or M3 fast, but no abs, no psm, no active yaw, 60 in less than 5 seconds, lots of torque kind of fast) I do think there is a good level of appreciation of how much trouble you can get into if you don't treat something with respect.
Take a car...a good fast one weighs a ton has around 300 bhp and hits 60 in around 4ish seconds...once you get into trouble you are pretty much stuffed...sure you have a lot more protection around you than when falling off a bike, but the whole point of saying "I come from a fast car background" is to point out that you are not the sort of idiot who goes into a corner 10/10ths on the first day on the first corner. You've built up an understanding of how powerfull that device is...be it a bloody rapid cart, or a 600bhp Enzo. You will know that the limits are far greater than you could (or rightly should) experience on the road.
If you can drive a GT3, TVR, top flight Caterham to anywhere near it's limits on the road (and I'm not saying I can - I don't because I savour my life and my licence) then progressing to ANY top flight bike should not be THAT much of a life threatening challenge...not because that person CAN ride it to the nth degree, but because that person has learned to RESPECT something that is THAT MUCH more capable on the public road than they are.
Average Joe, with a big attitude and little skill would, for sure, get into a lot of trouble, but I think your dedecated, skilled RESPECTFULL driver could cross to a fast bike without too much issue.
And yes, I came from a TVR, and yes I go round corners slower than a slow thing..bike and car included...and yes, I've caned my 748 in a straight line and been dissapointed...after a week...BUT I'd probably be as safe now on a brand spanking new 180bhp Gixer thou' as my bike...I know both will bite (different levels of bite) but bite when I miss treat them or over estimate the size of my dangly bits...
Learn as quick, no...for sure, but safe...yes, as my bike is MUCH more capable than me in most instances, so another 90bhp would just be mainly wasted.
Apart from the much increased risk of injury you'd get on ANY bike, if you come from a RESPECTFULL background, I do think this scare mongery of fast bikes is a little misplaced, as pretty much any bike will get you into trouble if you want...
Buy a Gixer thou' you'll die
Buy an R6 you'll die
Buy a TVR Griff 500 and treat it with the same respect as the above and if you don't die, you WILL have a effing nasty accident and yes, possibly die...
Bikes are NOT some mythical fire breathing life taking creation...they just need treating with the the extra respect that no body work, seat belt, airbag fall offability instoes on them.
I'm off to bed now...hope I don't regret this when sober
May we all ride with respect for our self, our surroundings, skill and level of risk we alll chooose to undertake.
(as you may tell I've not fallen off yet )
Neil.
If someone comes from a fast (and I mean faaaast...not Saxo Warm hatch, or M3 fast, but no abs, no psm, no active yaw, 60 in less than 5 seconds, lots of torque kind of fast) I do think there is a good level of appreciation of how much trouble you can get into if you don't treat something with respect.
Take a car...a good fast one weighs a ton has around 300 bhp and hits 60 in around 4ish seconds...once you get into trouble you are pretty much stuffed...sure you have a lot more protection around you than when falling off a bike, but the whole point of saying "I come from a fast car background" is to point out that you are not the sort of idiot who goes into a corner 10/10ths on the first day on the first corner. You've built up an understanding of how powerfull that device is...be it a bloody rapid cart, or a 600bhp Enzo. You will know that the limits are far greater than you could (or rightly should) experience on the road.
If you can drive a GT3, TVR, top flight Caterham to anywhere near it's limits on the road (and I'm not saying I can - I don't because I savour my life and my licence) then progressing to ANY top flight bike should not be THAT much of a life threatening challenge...not because that person CAN ride it to the nth degree, but because that person has learned to RESPECT something that is THAT MUCH more capable on the public road than they are.
Average Joe, with a big attitude and little skill would, for sure, get into a lot of trouble, but I think your dedecated, skilled RESPECTFULL driver could cross to a fast bike without too much issue.
And yes, I came from a TVR, and yes I go round corners slower than a slow thing..bike and car included...and yes, I've caned my 748 in a straight line and been dissapointed...after a week...BUT I'd probably be as safe now on a brand spanking new 180bhp Gixer thou' as my bike...I know both will bite (different levels of bite) but bite when I miss treat them or over estimate the size of my dangly bits...
Learn as quick, no...for sure, but safe...yes, as my bike is MUCH more capable than me in most instances, so another 90bhp would just be mainly wasted.
Apart from the much increased risk of injury you'd get on ANY bike, if you come from a RESPECTFULL background, I do think this scare mongery of fast bikes is a little misplaced, as pretty much any bike will get you into trouble if you want...
Buy a Gixer thou' you'll die
Buy an R6 you'll die
Buy a TVR Griff 500 and treat it with the same respect as the above and if you don't die, you WILL have a effing nasty accident and yes, possibly die...
Bikes are NOT some mythical fire breathing life taking creation...they just need treating with the the extra respect that no body work, seat belt, airbag fall offability instoes on them.
I'm off to bed now...hope I don't regret this when sober
May we all ride with respect for our self, our surroundings, skill and level of risk we alll chooose to undertake.
(as you may tell I've not fallen off yet
) Neil.
Bollocks to that Virgil, what's the point in getting something and NOT ripping the arse out of it as often as possible? 
To the original poster, get something like an RGV or RS 250 for two stroke craziness, or one of the little small bore 400 race reps (ZXR, VFR etc.), get your licence and do as many trackdays as you can; hell, go club racing, there's plenty of classes available to that type of bike and they're a natural learning ground before you move up to something bigger & faster. Most of all, enjoy yourself.
One thing though: whether you be riding on the road or track, get some expert advanced tuition.
Nope, just your battery eh?
To the original poster, get something like an RGV or RS 250 for two stroke craziness, or one of the little small bore 400 race reps (ZXR, VFR etc.), get your licence and do as many trackdays as you can; hell, go club racing, there's plenty of classes available to that type of bike and they're a natural learning ground before you move up to something bigger & faster. Most of all, enjoy yourself.
One thing though: whether you be riding on the road or track, get some expert advanced tuition.
virgil said:
(as you may tell I've not fallen off yet )
)Nope, just your battery eh?
Edited by hiccy on Friday 16th March 00:14
virgil said:
… Many wise words …
Agree with you Neil, if you drive a proper performance car on the road, then you are fully aware of the most important part of any performance vehicle … the throttle has more than just an off and on setting! You will also be aware that other road users may not be expecting you to be approaching at a ‘higher rate’ or that you have the ability to execute certain maneuvers which a proper performance vehicle can do easily.
But there is one small proviso. In an emergency situation a performance car generally has only two options and that is to brake or to accelerate. (A normal car has 1 option – brake) On a bike you very often have the third option of “going for the gap” and it is getting your brain to change it’s thinking into looking for “the gap” rather than simply grabbing a handful of brake that is the difficult part of becoming a motorcyclist.
As the OP has track experience in a cart he will know how to get a cart quickly round a corner, but that is not the same as getting a bike quickly round a corner (track or road.). If the only use this bike is going to have is occasional track day then I would suggest that he will have to accept that he is going to be ‘pretty crap’ and will be taken out by much ‘lesser bikes’ whose riders have a lot more cornering experience. If he tries to race … sorry keep up with as you can’t race on track days … the ‘lesser bikes’ he will end up in the gravel and will not enjoy any of it.
As long as the OP understands that it is a very different to carting and like all things, you only get to be good after lots of practice (including lots of mistakes) then he should be OK but it’s going to be a very long journey.
Ride safe and enjoy
virgil said:
You know what? And I'm likely to be shot down in flames here, especially as I'm still a learner in the great world of bikes, but this whole "fast car experience is no relation to bikes, bikes are that much faster" malarkey is starting to get my goat a little. It's true to some extent, but ONLY to SOME extent.
Wot he said Sure, the actual bike handling skills are different but the roadcraft and respect for speed is much the same. Until last year I hadn't ridden a bike for 20 years but had had some nice cars - Evo, Ultima, GT3, Fireblade engine Westfield. I've done nearly 4k miles on my Aprilia Factory and enjoyed every one. You CAN get yourself into trouble much quicker, and it doesn't take an Einstein to appreciate that a mistake will result in worse than some dented panels, but I think someone coming from a fast car actually feels much more vulnerable at speed on a bike and behaves accordingly.
BobM said:
....I think someone coming from a fast car actually feels much more vulnerable at speed on a bike and behaves accordingly.
Yep, true at first: riding my bike home after I purchased it I hit the motorway and rolled off at what felt a fast enough speed, looked at the clocks and was doing 50mph! You get used to it though and then behave in the exact same manner you would in a car.
Incidentally, a road licence isn't necessary to go racing, just a race licence. Might be worth considering.
Edited by hiccy on Friday 16th March 07:55
Morning all,
Now, hate to be controversial here, but I have to disagree with a few thoughts on this topic. Bear with me, as I'm still very intoxicated from last night (don't even remember getting the train this morning), but I don't care what experience you have in a car/kart (ex kart "champ" myself!) but it's not on the same planet as riding a bike, no way. As for performance figures....no comparison. The 0-60 time for an R1 is comparable to an F1 car.
Neil, your comment about buy this and die etc, come on man, that's not the case. As we've all said before, treat the thing with respect, appreciate there are more throttle settings that on/off, and hopefully things will go well.
I'd like to say to the OP.....Go get your R6 (make sure it's black). Respect the bike, respect what it's capable of, remember your rubbish (no offence!) and remember everyone else on the road (bike's included) wantsd to kill you. You won't look back.
ps - I know I'll regret this later. Neil/David will be along shortly to ruin me (!)
Now, hate to be controversial here, but I have to disagree with a few thoughts on this topic. Bear with me, as I'm still very intoxicated from last night (don't even remember getting the train this morning), but I don't care what experience you have in a car/kart (ex kart "champ" myself!) but it's not on the same planet as riding a bike, no way. As for performance figures....no comparison. The 0-60 time for an R1 is comparable to an F1 car.
Neil, your comment about buy this and die etc, come on man, that's not the case. As we've all said before, treat the thing with respect, appreciate there are more throttle settings that on/off, and hopefully things will go well.
I'd like to say to the OP.....Go get your R6 (make sure it's black). Respect the bike, respect what it's capable of, remember your rubbish (no offence!) and remember everyone else on the road (bike's included) wantsd to kill you. You won't look back.
ps - I know I'll regret this later. Neil/David will be along shortly to ruin me (!)
chilli said:
Morning all,
Now, hate to be controversial here, but I have to disagree with a few thoughts on this topic. Bear with me, as I'm still very intoxicated from last night (don't even remember getting the train this morning), but I don't care what experience you have in a car/kart (ex kart "champ" myself!) but it's not on the same planet as riding a bike, no way. As for performance figures....no comparison. The 0-60 time for an R1 is comparable to an F1 car.
Neil, your comment about buy this and die etc, come on man, that's not the case. As we've all said before, treat the thing with respect, appreciate there are more throttle settings that on/off, and hopefully things will go well.
I'd like to say to the OP.....Go get your R6 (make sure it's black). Respect the bike, respect what it's capable of, remember your rubbish (no offence!) and remember everyone else on the road (bike's included) wantsd to kill you. You won't look back.
ps - I know I'll regret this later. Neil/David will be along shortly to ruin me (!)
Now, hate to be controversial here, but I have to disagree with a few thoughts on this topic. Bear with me, as I'm still very intoxicated from last night (don't even remember getting the train this morning), but I don't care what experience you have in a car/kart (ex kart "champ" myself!) but it's not on the same planet as riding a bike, no way. As for performance figures....no comparison. The 0-60 time for an R1 is comparable to an F1 car.
Neil, your comment about buy this and die etc, come on man, that's not the case. As we've all said before, treat the thing with respect, appreciate there are more throttle settings that on/off, and hopefully things will go well.
I'd like to say to the OP.....Go get your R6 (make sure it's black). Respect the bike, respect what it's capable of, remember your rubbish (no offence!) and remember everyone else on the road (bike's included) wantsd to kill you. You won't look back.
ps - I know I'll regret this later. Neil/David will be along shortly to ruin me (!)
Errr .... I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing! A bike, like a performance car, needs respect. If you already drive a performance car then you have shown that you have that respect. The bike will need a different skill set to stay safe and make the most of it but, with the above mentioned respect anyone will be able to acquire that skill set with minimum risk.
I think Neils ‘buy this and die’ comment was saying that without respect for the vehicle it applies equally to a performance car as it does to a bike.
black-k1 said:
chilli said:
Morning all,
Now, hate to be controversial here, but I have to disagree with a few thoughts on this topic. Bear with me, as I'm still very intoxicated from last night (don't even remember getting the train this morning), but I don't care what experience you have in a car/kart (ex kart "champ" myself!) but it's not on the same planet as riding a bike, no way. As for performance figures....no comparison. The 0-60 time for an R1 is comparable to an F1 car.
Neil, your comment about buy this and die etc, come on man, that's not the case. As we've all said before, treat the thing with respect, appreciate there are more throttle settings that on/off, and hopefully things will go well.
I'd like to say to the OP.....Go get your R6 (make sure it's black). Respect the bike, respect what it's capable of, remember your rubbish (no offence!) and remember everyone else on the road (bike's included) wantsd to kill you. You won't look back.
ps - I know I'll regret this later. Neil/David will be along shortly to ruin me (!)
Now, hate to be controversial here, but I have to disagree with a few thoughts on this topic. Bear with me, as I'm still very intoxicated from last night (don't even remember getting the train this morning), but I don't care what experience you have in a car/kart (ex kart "champ" myself!) but it's not on the same planet as riding a bike, no way. As for performance figures....no comparison. The 0-60 time for an R1 is comparable to an F1 car.
Neil, your comment about buy this and die etc, come on man, that's not the case. As we've all said before, treat the thing with respect, appreciate there are more throttle settings that on/off, and hopefully things will go well.
I'd like to say to the OP.....Go get your R6 (make sure it's black). Respect the bike, respect what it's capable of, remember your rubbish (no offence!) and remember everyone else on the road (bike's included) wantsd to kill you. You won't look back.
ps - I know I'll regret this later. Neil/David will be along shortly to ruin me (!)
Errr .... I think we're all saying pretty much the same thing! A bike, like a performance car, needs respect. If you already drive a performance car then you have shown that you have that respect. The bike will need a different skill set to stay safe and make the most of it but, with the above mentioned respect anyone will be able to acquire that skill set with minimum risk.
I think Neils ‘buy this and die’ comment was saying that without respect for the vehicle it applies equally to a performance car as it does to a bike.
Oh....right! Sorry about the misunderstanding folks..... !!!
I'm not going to get into the cars and bikes debate.
If you want to trailer it and just use it on track then get an R6 and learn the bike.
If you want to ride it there and back and thus need insurance and something that will make it easy for you to get used to riding a bike get a VFR400 (NC30) or CBR400 (NC29). Awesome bikes for the novice and great fun (and insurable!). Then after a year or two with some miles and some no claims bonus under your belt you'll be itching for that R6
Enjoy, ride safe, have fun
If you want to trailer it and just use it on track then get an R6 and learn the bike.
If you want to ride it there and back and thus need insurance and something that will make it easy for you to get used to riding a bike get a VFR400 (NC30) or CBR400 (NC29). Awesome bikes for the novice and great fun (and insurable!). Then after a year or two with some miles and some no claims bonus under your belt you'll be itching for that R6
Enjoy, ride safe, have fun
Exactamondo, Mr Black-k1...
Chilli - you got the wrong end of the stick mate. I'm the one having a pop at the "buy an R1 and you will die" doom and gloom merchants, NOT supporting them.
And I'm not saying that 10 years driving high performance cars gives you the skill to ride a FAST bike FAST. That is obviously rubbish...What I am saying is that a few years driving (very) high performance cars DOES give you the respect to ride a fast bike SAFELY...NOT FAST.
So think we are all pretty much on the same boat, give or take an oar or two...
P.S. Yes...the best safety feature on any bike is a flat battery!!!
Chilli - you got the wrong end of the stick mate. I'm the one having a pop at the "buy an R1 and you will die" doom and gloom merchants, NOT supporting them.
And I'm not saying that 10 years driving high performance cars gives you the skill to ride a FAST bike FAST. That is obviously rubbish...What I am saying is that a few years driving (very) high performance cars DOES give you the respect to ride a fast bike SAFELY...NOT FAST.
So think we are all pretty much on the same boat, give or take an oar or two...
P.S. Yes...the best safety feature on any bike is a flat battery!!!
black-k1 said:
But there is one small proviso. In an emergency situation a performance car generally has only two options and that is to brake or to accelerate. (A normal car has 1 option – brake) On a bike you very often have the third option of “going for the gap” and it is getting your brain to change it’s thinking into looking for “the gap” rather than simply grabbing a handful of brake that is the difficult part of becoming a motorcyclist.
You DO have that with a car - it's called the sharp intake of breath manouver, where you have no option but to hope the gap is wider than it looks and wing mirrors become expendable...(joke) but I'm not there yet on the bike...not anywhere near...not even too keen on filtering stationary traffic yet
As for looking for a gap to rearrange my mirrors through...I guess I'm still at the fall off, close my eyes, roll up into a little ball and hope it all goes away stage at the mo! Edited by virgil on Friday 16th March 09:36
virgil said:
Exactamondo, Mr Black-k1...
Chilli - you got the wrong end of the stick mate. I'm the one having a pop at the "buy an R1 and you will die" doom and gloom merchants, NOT supporting them.
And I'm not saying that 10 years driving high performance cars gives you the skill to ride a FAST bike FAST. That is obviously rubbish...What I am saying is that a few years driving (very) high performance cars DOES give you the respect to ride a fast bike SAFELY...NOT FAST.
So think we are all pretty much on the same boat, give or take an oar or two...
P.S. Yes...the best safety feature on any bike is a flat battery!!!
Chilli - you got the wrong end of the stick mate. I'm the one having a pop at the "buy an R1 and you will die" doom and gloom merchants, NOT supporting them.
And I'm not saying that 10 years driving high performance cars gives you the skill to ride a FAST bike FAST. That is obviously rubbish...What I am saying is that a few years driving (very) high performance cars DOES give you the respect to ride a fast bike SAFELY...NOT FAST.
So think we are all pretty much on the same boat, give or take an oar or two...
P.S. Yes...the best safety feature on any bike is a flat battery!!!
Noted, apologies, t'was a good/long night.
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