cars vs bikes thread

[y2blade]

have you guys seen this?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 26th June 08:14

[308mate]

Hmm. I think there might be some clarification needed on some of those points. "virtually a road bike" crops up a bit too often. Id say tt bikes are closer to race spec than road spec. Not a big gap but a significant one.

[Biker's Nemesis]

308mate said:

Hmm. I think there might be some clarification needed on some of those points. "virtually a road bike" crops up a bit too often. Id say tt bikes are closer to race spec than road spec. Not a big gap but a significant one.

The Bikes used in the Senior race are more of a race bike, but the one's in the production race are not that far removed from what your average road rider has.

[Dare2Fail]

308mate said:

Hmm. I think there might be some clarification needed on some of those points. "virtually a road bike" crops up a bit too often. Id say tt bikes are closer to race spec than road spec. Not a big gap but a significant one.

You've got to be having a laugh. Maybe in the F1 and Senior races but the Superstock race with Anstey posting a 128mph lap (I think, give me a slap if I'm wrong) was very close to road spec. Anyone know the rules that the bikes have to meet? They can't be changing much on those things

[308mate]

And theres that phrase again. Standard pads? Suspension internals? Gearing? Peg and handlebar heights? Wheels? Ride heights? Fuel map? Exhaust? Materials used for engine internals? Blueprinting and balancing? Rev limit? Body work material? Not big changes i know, but significant ones and with a big effect on the performance and the a average joe would be hard pressed to pick those differences from the track side.

[Biker's Nemesis]

308mate said:

And theres that phrase again. Standard pads? Suspension internals? Gearing? Peg and handlebar heights? Wheels? Ride heights? Fuel map? Exhaust? Materials used for engine internals? Blueprinting and balancing? Rev limit? Body work material? Not big changes i know, but significant ones and with a big effect on the performance and the a average joe would be hard pressed to pick those differences from the track side.

I'm not sure they are allowed to blue print the Engines. Yes body work is different/lighter, bellypan has to hold any fluids incase of a blow up. Wheels, I'm sure they have to be the same as standard, pads, exhausts, power commanders, are what prety much every road rider will have one or all of.

Not standard as you've said, but not that far off.


John,

[hiccy]

308mate said:

And theres that phrase again. Standard pads? Suspension internals? Gearing? Peg and handlebar heights? Wheels? Ride heights? Fuel map? Exhaust? ....

To be really fair, how many road bikes have some or all of the above changed? I think it's fair to say that the 'Stock bikes are "carefully prepared road bikes", rather than race bikes.

I think in the thread in linked in the OP most people fail to comprehend the difference between 100mph and 130mph laps; to go 30% faster around the entire course would take some doing IMO.

[Chilli]

hiccy said:

308mate said:

And theres that phrase again. Standard pads? Suspension internals? Gearing? Peg and handlebar heights? Wheels? Ride heights? Fuel map? Exhaust? ....

To be really fair, how many road bikes have some or all of the above changed? I think it's fair to say that the 'Stock bikes are "carefully prepared road bikes", rather than race bikes.

I think in the thread in linked in the OP most people fail to comprehend the difference between 100mph and 130mph laps; to go 30% faster around the entire course would take some doing IMO.

Spot on. All of the above changes could be made by the road user, and fairly easily too....well, I know someone who could do it for me. It's hardly Race spec ffs.

[y2blade]

Chilli said:

hiccy said:

308mate said:

And theres that phrase again. Standard pads? Suspension internals? Gearing? Peg and handlebar heights? Wheels? Ride heights? Fuel map? Exhaust? ....

To be really fair, how many road bikes have some or all of the above changed? I think it's fair to say that the 'Stock bikes are "carefully prepared road bikes", rather than race bikes.

I think in the thread in linked in the OP most people fail to comprehend the difference between 100mph and 130mph laps; to go 30% faster around the entire course would take some doing IMO.

Spot on. All of the above changes could be made by the road user, and fairly easily too....well, I know someone who could do it for me. It's hardly Race spec ffs.

agreed most bikes you see at normal bike meets have all the above mods now anyway

some of the guys on the thread simply havent got a clue of EXACTLY what the TT course is.....like i said in the thread the cars may be capable BUT i cant see anyone willing to push it hard enough to do 120mph let alone a 130mph lap!

the time to be made is in the slower sections of the lap,i watched alot of onbike footage on DVD and web last night and i honestly cant see anyone piloting a car around quicker than a bike

Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 26th June 08:15

[Pugsey]

y2blade said:

Chilli said:

hiccy said:

308mate said:

And theres that phrase again. Standard pads? Suspension internals? Gearing? Peg and handlebar heights? Wheels? Ride heights? Fuel map? Exhaust? ....

To be really fair, how many road bikes have some or all of the above changed? I think it's fair to say that the 'Stock bikes are "carefully prepared road bikes", rather than race bikes.

I think in the thread in linked in the OP most people fail to comprehend the difference between 100mph and 130mph laps; to go 30% faster around the entire course would take some doing IMO.

Spot on. All of the above changes could be made by the road user, and fairly easily too....well, I know someone who could do it for me. It's hardly Race spec ffs.

agreed most bikes you see at normal bike meets have all the above mods now anyway

some of the guys on the thread simply havent got a clue of EXACTLY what the TT course is.....like i said in the thread the cars may be capable BUT i cant see anyone willing to push it hard enough to do 120mph let alone a 130mph lap!

the time to be made is in the slower sections of the lap,i watched alot of onbike footage on DVD and web last night and i honestly cant see anyone piloting a car around quicker than a bike

Edited by y2blade on Tuesday 26th June 08:15

Cars will make up a lot of time in any braking area and through any corner - in particular the slower sections of the course. However the bikes all have mind boggling acceleration and are hitting huge top speeds and you would need a very very special car compensate for that. Ultimately I think a car could do it but you'd be talking about an expensive, effectively race prep'd track only car, against a bike that could be found on public roads any sunny Sunday - that's the bikers advantage to me. IMO though to say a car driver wouldn't be willing to push hard enough is a bit silly - go and spectate - or better yet drive - at the 'Ring and you'll find plenty!! In fact lend me the right car and I'll have a go!

Edited by Pugsey on Tuesday 26th June 10:49

[996 sps]

Anyone can drive a car fairly quick a bike takes skill........nuff said!

[black-k1]

996 sps said:

Anyone can drive a car fairly quick a bike takes skill........nuff said!

I think, to be fair, for any car to have a realistic chance of getting near to the bike times around the TT circuit, it’ll take a very skilful driver.

[Chilli]

Pugsey made the point about braking. Now I'm bloody sure someone told me (I think I've heard it several times actually) that a modern sportsbike would be better under braking than a car. Now, I find this difficult to believe...I know my braking isn't even up to me brother's standard in his van, so what do we think?

Cheers.

[Daftlad]

Chilli said:

Pugsey made the point about braking. Now I'm bloody sure someone told me (I think I've heard it several times actually) that a modern sportsbike would be better under braking than a car. Now, I find this difficult to believe...I know my braking isn't even up to me brother's standard in his van, so what do we think?

Cheers.

Modern superbike vs say a modern TVR (have reasonable expereince of both) in the braking area, no comparison I'm afarid, the car would stop much quicker.

[Chilli]

Daftlad said:

Chilli said:

Pugsey made the point about braking. Now I'm bloody sure someone told me (I think I've heard it several times actually) that a modern sportsbike would be better under braking than a car. Now, I find this difficult to believe...I know my braking isn't even up to me brother's standard in his van, so what do we think?

Cheers.

Modern superbike vs say a modern TVR (have reasonable expereince of both) in the braking area, no comparison I'm afarid, the car would stop much quicker.

That's what I'd have thought.

Cheers.

[y2blade]

Chilli said:

Daftlad said:

Chilli said:

Pugsey made the point about braking. Now I'm bloody sure someone told me (I think I've heard it several times actually) that a modern sportsbike would be better under braking than a car. Now, I find this difficult to believe...I know my braking isn't even up to me brother's standard in his van, so what do we think?

Cheers.

Modern superbike vs say a modern TVR (have reasonable expereince of both) in the braking area, no comparison I'm afarid, the car would stop much quicker.

That's what I'd have thought.

Cheers.

seconded

[anonymous-user]

Daftlad said:

I'm afarid, the car would stop much quicker.

A road car will stop to Zero faster than a bike, but IMO a bike will brake from 150 to 100 faster than a road car(far less weight to stop) what causes a bike to lose out at lower speeds is locking the front and weight transfer(stoppies) , this doesn't affect the bike as much as higher speeds & on a circuit like the TT, how often will a bike be braking to speeds less than 50mph?

[tankslappa]

Having watched plenty of TT footage, i can't think of many HARD BRAKING points. Certainly not enough over a lap that long that would give a car an advantage.

And as Kenny Roberts Snr used to say, you make up time on track during the fast sections, not the slow ones.

[Pugsey]

y2blade said:

Chilli said:

Daftlad said:

Chilli said:

Pugsey made the point about braking. Now I'm bloody sure someone told me (I think I've heard it several times actually) that a modern sportsbike would be better under braking than a car. Now, I find this difficult to believe...I know my braking isn't even up to me brother's standard in his van, so what do we think?

Cheers.

Modern superbike vs say a modern TVR (have reasonable expereince of both) in the braking area, no comparison I'm afarid, the car would stop much quicker.

That's what I'd have thought.

Cheers.

seconded

Was on track testing recently (cars) and pursuaded circuit to let my mate - who has race experience - take his R1 (road bike but modded) round to test just this theory. Non of us could believe how early he was having to brake from a given speed compared with my GT3 (road car). The bike was on those lovely semi slicks that all you mad buggers seem to use and if we'd put the car on similar stuff or compared it to a Caterham, Radical or the like on stickies the gap would have been even bigger. Mind you for something you can stroll into your local dealers and buy by slapping down a credit card the bike was stupidly fast and I'm sure the whole experience has much more 'depth' to it. I'm sure that unless you're some kind of god you'd always know that there was more to come from the bike - if only you could find it in yourself. You're all very brave/completely barking IMO. Forget about finding the right car/bike I imagine it would be much easier to find drivers prepared to get 'loose' round the I.O.M. than riders - despite what you may be told down the pub.

[Pugsey]

TBO - and I'm a car man primarily - I think the bike wins this one on the basis that even the most extreme bikes at the TT seem very close to road bikes. To compete with them you really are starting to look at dedicated track cars which would only ever see public roads on a sunny Sunday from the back of a trailer - and cost £££s. Sure cars ultimately win - an F1 car would make a MotoGP Bike look daft but even then my Gran would recognise Rossi's bike as a bike but Hamilton's Macca isn't really a car as we know it is it?