Excessive leaning & getting your knee down - who started it?
Discussion
Guy's,
Don't normally post on here so I'll say Hi first
Popped over to my parents house the other day and managed to catch the start of the MotoGP.
I ended up having a conversation with my Dad about the GP boy's lean angles and getting there knees down. Now my Dad seems to think this all started in the mid/late 70's with Barry Sheene & Co.
I've noticed footage from the TT etc in the 50's & 60's where they're partially leaned over with knees out etc but not down.
I'm assuming a lot of it has to do with tyre technology and shapes (i.e. not square sided any more and sticky as $h1t).
So I ask you, the knowledgeable folk of the PH Bike forum - When did it start and who started it??
Cheers
Chris
Don't normally post on here so I'll say Hi first
Popped over to my parents house the other day and managed to catch the start of the MotoGP.
I ended up having a conversation with my Dad about the GP boy's lean angles and getting there knees down. Now my Dad seems to think this all started in the mid/late 70's with Barry Sheene & Co.
I've noticed footage from the TT etc in the 50's & 60's where they're partially leaned over with knees out etc but not down.
I'm assuming a lot of it has to do with tyre technology and shapes (i.e. not square sided any more and sticky as $h1t).
So I ask you, the knowledgeable folk of the PH Bike forum - When did it start and who started it??
Cheers
Chris
Not got a bike but am very tempted (as I have been for the last few years.....) to do my DAS course.
I'd say both you and your dad are sort of right in that lean angles steadily increased from the fifties but without the actual knee going down, the first rider I know of who intentionally put his knee down and made contact (and in preperation was the first to wear knee sliders) was Paul Smart, Scott's dad and Barry Sheenes brother in law, Barry Sheene followed on pretty closely afterwards.
I have noticed that there are people out there that knock the 'Knee down' phenomena found in racing (all genres). I believe that these people are those that aspire to do it but feel that pushing that hard is a little beyond comfort.
All I can say is that at today's lean angles that the tyre compounds allow, it is a given that knees, toes, footpegs and now elbows will be scraping the floor.
So what! Big deal!
I have lapped Silverstone trying to 'purposely' have my knee scraping and was overtaken by someone who was bolt upright on the bike. Lesson learned.
So I stopped concentrating on body position (and trying hard for the cameraman) and worked harder on corner speed and track positioning.
Guess what.
Two laps later and my knee was scraping again as I pushed harder. The problem then was that I wasn't as far off the bike, I was running a more acute lean angle and then my foot and footpeg started to touch down.
The only benefit I can see of having your knee on the deck is trading off feel between your knee and the front wheel, whilst using the throttle as the balance. It gives you a sort of tripod feel on medium and high speed bends and gives you a better feeling from the front of the bike.
It just happens to look good, and being quite shallow, I like that!!
As for pioneers of the phenomena, Kenny Snr was a ambassador of this style, whether or not he was the first to touch down, I do not know!
All I can say is that at today's lean angles that the tyre compounds allow, it is a given that knees, toes, footpegs and now elbows will be scraping the floor.
So what! Big deal!
I have lapped Silverstone trying to 'purposely' have my knee scraping and was overtaken by someone who was bolt upright on the bike. Lesson learned.
So I stopped concentrating on body position (and trying hard for the cameraman) and worked harder on corner speed and track positioning.
Guess what.
Two laps later and my knee was scraping again as I pushed harder. The problem then was that I wasn't as far off the bike, I was running a more acute lean angle and then my foot and footpeg started to touch down.
The only benefit I can see of having your knee on the deck is trading off feel between your knee and the front wheel, whilst using the throttle as the balance. It gives you a sort of tripod feel on medium and high speed bends and gives you a better feeling from the front of the bike.
It just happens to look good, and being quite shallow, I like that!!
As for pioneers of the phenomena, Kenny Snr was a ambassador of this style, whether or not he was the first to touch down, I do not know!
Edited by veetwin on Wednesday 22 August 15:10
veetwin said:
I have noticed that there are people out there that knock the 'Knee down' phenomena found in racing (all genres). I believe that these people are those that aspire to do it but feel that pushing that hard is a little beyond comfort.
All I can say is that at today's lean angles that the tyre compounds allow, it is a given that knees, toes, footpegs and now elbows will be scraping the floor.
So what! Big deal!
I have lapped Silverstone trying to 'purposely' have my knee scraping and was overtaken by someone who was bolt upright on the bike. Lesson learned.
So I stopped concentrating on body position (and trying hard for the cameraman) and worked harder on corner speed and track positioning.
Guess what.
Two laps later and my knee was scraping again as I pushed harder. The problem then was that I wasn't as far off the bike, I was running a more acute lean angle and then my foot and footpeg started to touch down.
The only benefit I can see of having your knee on the deck is trading off feel between your knee and the front wheel, whilst using the throttle as the balance. It gives you a sort of tripod feel on medium and high speed bends and gives you a better feeling from the front of the bike.
It just happens to look good, and being quite shallow, I like that!!
As for pioneers of the phenomena, Kenny Snr was a ambassador of this style, whether or not he was the first to touch down, I do not know!
Agree with all of that...All I can say is that at today's lean angles that the tyre compounds allow, it is a given that knees, toes, footpegs and now elbows will be scraping the floor.
So what! Big deal!
I have lapped Silverstone trying to 'purposely' have my knee scraping and was overtaken by someone who was bolt upright on the bike. Lesson learned.
So I stopped concentrating on body position (and trying hard for the cameraman) and worked harder on corner speed and track positioning.
Guess what.
Two laps later and my knee was scraping again as I pushed harder. The problem then was that I wasn't as far off the bike, I was running a more acute lean angle and then my foot and footpeg started to touch down.
The only benefit I can see of having your knee on the deck is trading off feel between your knee and the front wheel, whilst using the throttle as the balance. It gives you a sort of tripod feel on medium and high speed bends and gives you a better feeling from the front of the bike.
It just happens to look good, and being quite shallow, I like that!!
As for pioneers of the phenomena, Kenny Snr was a ambassador of this style, whether or not he was the first to touch down, I do not know!
Edited by veetwin on Wednesday 22 August 15:10
for thatGraham Crosby was the first, set the whole F1 racing scene on it's in the late seventies /early eighties. Sit up n beg Moriwaki tuned big jap 4, use to grind his way through engine casings. He was the first to hang off the bike and get his knee on the floor , long befor knee sliders were invented - which is attributed to Sheen & Dianese ,for the first produced knee sliders for racing. And it doesn't mean that Crosby was actually any quicker than someone like Mick Grant who's arse barely moved on the seat.
Desmo said:
Jarno Sarinnen is generally accepted as the first rider to use the knee out and hanging off style. Unfortunately he died early in his career. He was an inspiration to riders such as Barry Sheene etc. Although they would not be dragging the knee as they do today.
regards, Desmo.
Seconded, the rest of ya are talking b*llocks [imho]regards, Desmo.
twizellb said:
Desmo said:
Jarno Sarinnen is generally accepted as the first rider to use the knee out and hanging off style. Unfortunately he died early in his career. He was an inspiration to riders such as Barry Sheene etc. Although they would not be dragging the knee as they do today.
regards, Desmo.
Seconded, the rest of ya are talking b*llocks [imho]regards, Desmo.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff