Daytona 600.....

[rossyboy129]

Hey, I'm a student and have been set the task of improving our formula student car (i'm only a 2nd year, so is more of a mamangement task than the actual project, but nevertheless i want to do well at this!)

It runs on the 2003 Triumph Daytona 600 engine, and my task is to improve the stock unit for racing.

This is were i run into problems, knowing very little about the workings of a motorbike engine. Obvious engine improvements would be to simply replace the air and oil filters, maybe the spark plugs, but regualtions mean i need to change the throttle system. I've been told I need a 'plenum chamber to change the throttle from 8 to 1' but i have no idea what that means. Any ideas?!?!

I've been also been recommended to redesign the intake manifold system, for a more free-flowing design but again I don't really know where to start on this one!

Any advice anyone can offer is greatly appreciated, please help!!!

Thanks

[G Man]

Can't help you with the design but a good friend of mine remapped his Daytona 600 and sorted the fuel mapping out ..... which would be your biggest gain

[sjtscott]

rossyboy129 said:

Hey, I'm a student and have been set the task of improving our formula student car (i'm only a 2nd year, so is more of a mamangement task than the actual project, but nevertheless i want to do well at this!)

It runs on the 2003 Triumph Daytona 600 engine, and my task is to improve the stock unit for racing.

This is were i run into problems, knowing very little about the workings of a motorbike engine. Obvious engine improvements would be to simply replace the air and oil filters, maybe the spark plugs, but regualtions mean i need to change the throttle system. I've been told I need a 'plenum chamber to change the throttle from 8 to 1' but i have no idea what that means. Any ideas?!?!

I've been also been recommended to redesign the intake manifold system, for a more free-flowing design but again I don't really know where to start on this one!

Any advice anyone can offer is greatly appreciated, please help!!!

Thanks

Well for starters one of these http://www.dynojet.co.uk/powercommander/index.htm if you put a race exhaust on the engine you can use this to map it.
Also check this forum out I found after 5 secs of google searching http://www.daytona600.org/viewforum.php?f=7

Have you tried contacting Triumph themselves I'm sure they must have a race kit for the engine?

[G Man]

On the basis of there is no substitute for cubes, do some research see if the 600 triple can be converted to a 675 with a new crank and rods etc

[RumpleFugly]

G Man said:

On the basis of there is no substitute for cubes, do some research see if the 600 triple can be converted to a 675 with a new crank and rods etc

Sadly that won't be achievable as the 600 Daytona was a Four Cylinder to compete with the Jap bikes. They only went with a triple on the 675.

Also, it won't be allowed in this context as there is a 600cc capacity limit for Formula Student Racing. Although Turbo/Supercharging is allowed.

I really wanted our team to go for an Aprilia RXV550 engine as this looked like a good bet performance/weight wise but we've plumped for an R6 lump instead. Should still go alright though...

[Frik]

sjtscott said:

Well for starters one of these http://www.dynojet.co.uk/powercommander/index.htm if you put a race exhaust on the engine you can use this to map it.
Also check this forum out I found after 5 secs of google searching http://www.daytona600.org/viewforum.php?f=7

Have you tried contacting Triumph themselves I'm sure they must have a race kit for the engine?

Don't bother with power commanders, they aren't thought of very highly in these circumstances. You really need to be looking into running a custom ecu (we used a DTA Pro8) if you're looking at remapping.

IMO get yourself a copy of a good book like something by Heinz Heisler and start reading. Then have a good look round the forums at FSAE.com. Oxford Brookes (IIRC) were sponsored by Triumph a few years ago and so would have plenty of information to lend you if you asked nicely.

The thing you have to remember about FS is that they're trying to test your engineering skills all the time so every decision you make should be justified in engineering terms. By all means look at aftermarket tuning parts for the Daytona engine but remember that you are putting it in a car, not a bike and that the rules dictate some interesting constraints (20mm "restriction", single throttle body etc) leading to some very different goals from any work you wish to carry out.

[Wedg1e]

If I understand you correctly, you are converting from 4 separate throttle bodies (I guess carbs are before your time ) feeding from a common filter/airbox, to one throttle body feeding a plenum chamber (basically just a sealed chamber into which all air that passes through the throtte 'sits', waiting for the next cylinder to take a gulp at it)... this is what cars commonly use, though how that would work on a bike whose injection system wouldn't have originally expected to see that arrangement I don't know. I think my bike (using the former arrangement) measures the inlet air temperature as well as manifold vacuum; you'll probably have to allow for that as well...

[rossyboy129]

Yeah your bang on, the lecturer is using this as an exercise in team management, but we still fail if we don't make justifiable mods. Thats not really great news, as this is really the first bit of hands on we've had being as it's only the start of year 2, last year was all about maths and bloody heat transfer! I tried suggesting a new engine, say a 2007/08 Honda CBR600, but this was met with a frown. It's all about learning cost/gain justification so he wants us to make some of our own components. Having researched into it I can see i need to redesign a new intake manifold. I've also been advised that the throttle needs to change, this is something i don't get. what is meant by 'there are eight throttles on the cylinder head, this needs to be reduced to just one, using a plenum chamber'

What is a plenum chamber, and how in gods name does it work?!

I will indeed email oxford brookes, at the open day they said they were quite good so thats a good shout. Thanks for the advice guys

[Hooli]

the plenum chamber as i understand it is the part of the manifold between the throttle & the intake valves. the reserve that each cylinder takes a glup of in the post above yours.

[rossyboy129]

Wedg1e said:

If I understand you correctly, you are converting from 4 separate throttle bodies (I guess carbs are before your time ) feeding from a common filter/airbox, to one throttle body feeding a plenum chamber (basically just a sealed chamber into which all air that passes through the throtte 'sits', waiting for the next cylinder to take a gulp at it)... this is what cars commonly use, though how that would work on a bike whose injection system wouldn't have originally expected to see that arrangement I don't know. I think my bike (using the former arrangement) measures the inlet air temperature as well as manifold vacuum; you'll probably have to allow for that as well...

Looks like you got in there before me, This is were the confusion lies, i know it's an injection and i've even got an electronic copy of the owners manual, but it's massive and pretty hard to digest. Will admit, is the first time i've really looked at bikes and i'm finding myself searching for them for sale.

[Frik]

CBR600s are extremely popular, because there are so many of them about and pretty bomb proof. However, all the mounting points tend to be on the rear of the engine which makes installing them in a car challenging. I wouldn't look at such a late model year though, as they'll be rarer and more expensive to buy from a scrappy. Certainly nothing wrong with a Trumpet engine though. They've been used plenty before.

The best way to prepare for anything to do with Formula Student is to get hold of a copy of the rules and read them, thoroughly. They are extremely comprehensive and narrow down what can be achieved.

If this is more a management exercise, see if you can find out a bit more about how other teams are structured, what work needs to be carried out, and most importantly timescales. Nothing gives away an inexperienced team more than arriving at the event with a car that is either unfinished or was finished the night before so they have been unable to carry out any testing prior to the event.

Good luck and have fun. I certainly did.