Restricted Starter Bike

[Tripps]

Having had a good look at a lot of the 125 starters they all appear quite overpriced for what they are, especially given they have most likely had a more difficult life with inexperienced bikers...

Given the test changes I intend to get my full license before October, so wouldn't want a 125 for long, therefore a mate has suggested I skip a 125 and during my CBT-only period I run a larger bike restricted to regulations...

My concern is that even if limited to the line, would the bike be too heavy for the power and more importantly would bike over a higher capacity likely be too much for my ability?

Also, would this be a problem with the police though, pulling you over when you're riding a bike >125cc, and thus would you need special paperwork to prove it to the police?

TIA

[Oily]

I think the rules are that, before you have a full licence, you can only ride a bike larger than 125cc whilst being supervised by a qualified instructor.
Having a bigger bike restricted to 33hp comes in once you've passed your test on a 125, which you would have to do if you are under 21.

So if you really need a bike to get around on unsupervised before you do your test, then it would have to be a 125. If you don't need it, then use the riding school's bikes and save your money for the bigger bike.

[Rubin215]

CBT allows you to ride a bike up to 125cc only.
Anything bigger and you must be over 21 and accompanied by a DAS instructor.

Best bet is to pass your test in one hit; normally £300 to £600 depending on school, what it includes and what test you are sitting.

Under 21 you can only sit your test on a 125 (restricted licence). Pass it and you can ride any capacity of bike but it must produce no more than 33BHP. After two years, your restricted licence becomes a full licence and you can ride what you like.

Over 21 you can do a Direct Access Scheme and sit your test on a larger capacity bike producing at least 46 BHP. Pass here and you instantly have a full licence; zero to casualty in 4.5 seconds...

[Tripps]

Yeah, just had a look around and reckon he's got confused somewhere along the line (bloody useless mentor!), thinking it was 125cc OR 11 kW (14.6 bhp) rather than both applying.

I guess what he's think of is restricting an A license bike to A1 license spec...

[Tripps]

Rubin215 said:

Under 21 you can only sit your test on a 125 (restricted licence). Pass it and you can ride any capacity of bike but it must produce no more than 33BHP. After two years, your restricted licence becomes a full licence and you can ride what you like.

Over 21 you can do a Direct Access Scheme and sit your test on a larger capacity bike producing at least 46 BHP. Pass here and you instantly have a full licence; zero to casualty in 4.5 seconds...

Is it worth doing a restricted license (A1?) then (is it lesser/simpler), giving me two years chance to increase that 4.5s

These bike licensing rules are damn complex, I reckon the government are just trying to deter us!

[Silent1]

Rubin215 said:

CBT allows you to ride a bike up to 125cc only.
Anything bigger and you must be over 21 and accompanied by a DAS instructor....

Not quite, you can take a restricted test and ride any bike as long as it's limited to ~33bhp.

another thing, SWIM used to ride a 600 from the get go after passing their restricted test, without restrictors and used to frequently go to places such as the ace cafe and never once was questioned about the power, even after a rideout with some bike cops.

[Tripps]

Silent1 said:

Not quite, you can take a restricted test and ride any bike as long as it's limited to ~33bhp.

What are the dis/advantages to taking the restricted test over the full DAS, besides the power limit of course?

[Steve_T]

Rob, I'd doubt there's much difference in the costs going restricted license or full, but call a training centre to find out. I agree that the 125 is a waste of time, you can do DAS over a few weekends and you'll be onto a 500 on day 2 or 3, so you'll spend 2-3 days on a 125 including CBT. As far as how the restrictions affect bikes, they tend to be a washer with a hole in it, in the inlet tract somewhere - they're pretty crude. They only affect top end power, bottom end torque is not affected, so around town you're not much different. On open roads when you use the upper rev range then you'll notice. If you want, you can work out what kind of riding you're going to do and if having a restricted bike makes sense. I'd suggest you just get on with it and go for the full monty though.

Steve.

[Tripps]

Steve_T said:

Rob, I'd doubt there's much difference in the costs going restricted license or full, but call a training centre to find out. I agree that the 125 is a waste of time, you can do DAS over a few weekends and you'll be onto a 500 on day 2 or 3, so you'll spend 2-3 days on a 125 including CBT. As far as how the restrictions affect bikes, they tend to be a washer with a hole in it, in the inlet tract somewhere - they're pretty crude. They only affect top end power, bottom end torque is not affected, so around town you're not much different. On open roads when you use the upper rev range then you'll notice. If you want, you can work out what kind of riding you're going to do and if having a restricted bike makes sense. I'd suggest you just get on with it and go for the full monty though

Cheers matey, hope ur well, not seen you for yonks - feel isolated after having to leave your eGroup!

It's not so much the costs here, but the time implications for getting the training and I figure that having never ridden beyond falling down in a field as a youth, slowly ingesting the training might work out better for me, kind of being taught, practicing, then corrected on my mistakes and having a go again - dunno if that makes sense. If it wasn't for the new tests coming in I'd probably stick to CBT (with additional training) for over a year to ease myself into the experience of it.

Trying to figure the best way to gain the experience without getting myself killed really!

[Steve_T]

Tripps said:

Steve_T said:

Rob, I'd doubt there's much difference in the costs going restricted license or full, but call a training centre to find out. I agree that the 125 is a waste of time, you can do DAS over a few weekends and you'll be onto a 500 on day 2 or 3, so you'll spend 2-3 days on a 125 including CBT. As far as how the restrictions affect bikes, they tend to be a washer with a hole in it, in the inlet tract somewhere - they're pretty crude. They only affect top end power, bottom end torque is not affected, so around town you're not much different. On open roads when you use the upper rev range then you'll notice. If you want, you can work out what kind of riding you're going to do and if having a restricted bike makes sense. I'd suggest you just get on with it and go for the full monty though

Cheers matey, hope ur well, not seen you for yonks - feel isolated after having to leave your eGroup!

It's not so much the costs here, but the time implications for getting the training and I figure that having never ridden beyond falling down in a field as a youth, slowly ingesting the training might work out better for me, kind of being taught, practicing, then corrected on my mistakes and having a go again - dunno if that makes sense. If it wasn't for the new tests coming in I'd probably stick to CBT (with additional training) for over a year to ease myself into the experience of it.

Trying to figure the best way to gain the experience without getting myself killed really!

When started I out, I decided to get a bike to commute on and escape the train and I felt that something small would leave me amongst the lane 1 & 2 muppets on the A3 with no reserves of acceleration to get clear of them. I also reasoned that CBT was a lower standard to take on the world with than a test and like you I wanted to get up to a decent standard and therefore a bit and safer as quick as possible, so I went for DAS. Once you're rid of the L plates and on a bigger bike, people take you a bit more seriously, rather than view you as a chicane. I passed on Dec 16th 2002, after three weekends doing CBT & DAS training. I picked my SV up a couple of weeks after passing and did one test ride in to work to suss the route out. Then I just went straight into commuting in Jan 2003 and learnt as I went.

Don't put too many obstacles in the way, get your CBT done, see how you find it, then do DAS, then work out what you want to ride as it may change with a little experience of how a bike feels to ride. I'd made my mind up before I started, so I had all my own kit and at this time of year, it makes a big difference to handling the crappy weather and being able to concentrate. I had a dodgy day when I first got on the 500, partly the instructor, partly me I suspect, but I went back the next day, different instructor with a more relaxed approach and after that point I just got better and better. I did put an extra day of DAS in, because I wanted more practice before the test, but the school was flexible, so it was easy to do.

Get things rolling mate!



Steve.

[Brite spark]

Tripps said:

Is it worth doing a restricted license (A1?) then (is it lesser/simpler), giving me two years chance to increase that 4.5s

These bike licensing rules are damn complex, I reckon the government are just trying to deter us!

As far as I am aware the tests for direct and restricted access are the same, apart from the power output of the bike it is to be completed on, restricted access isn't going to be an easier test if that's what you are hoping for, test will be the same lenght and contain the same manouvers, so it seems pointless to do a restricted access test if you don't have to

As your thinking about doing the test I'd look into doing the motorcycle theory test(get practicing, esp daft hazard perception bit) and doing the cbt(make sure they know you intend to do a further test and that the bike is geared rather than twist and go) because as the deadline for the new test approaches it should get rather hectic


licencing is rather simple actually...

16y/o cbt- can have a moped max 50cc limited to 31 mph

17y/o+ cbt- can have a moped or bike to a maximum 125cc (11hp)
or one of the following

(can ride a moped without cbt or L plates if passed full car test before 1st feb 2001)

a light motorcycle licence (A1), which restricts riders to any bike up to 125 cc and a power output of 11 kW. The practical test must be taken on a bike of between 75 cc and 125 cc (avoids renewing cbt every 2 years)

a standard motorcycle licence (A), is obtained if the practical test is taken on a bike of over 120 cc but not more than 125 cc and capable of at least 100 km/h per hour. After passing the standard motorcycle practical test, you will be restricted for two years to riding a bike of up to 25 kW and a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.16 kW/kg. After this you may ride any size of bike


if over 21

Direct and accelerated access
Riders age 21 or over, or those who reach 21 before their two year restriction ends, have other options.
Direct access
After taking CBT and the theory test, the practical test may be taken on a motorcycle with a power output of at least 35kW. A pass allows you to ride any size of bike. All or part of the CBT course may be taken on either a learner bike or a large bike. You may practice for the practical test on bikes larger than the learner bike specification provided:

you are accompanied at all times by an approved instructor on another bike and in radio contact
you wear fluorescent or reflective clothing and follow all other provisional licence restrictions
Accelerated access
Riders who reach the age of 21, while still within the two year period where they are restricted to maximum 25 kW machines, but who wish to ride larger bikes need to pass a further test on a motorcycle of at least 35 kW. They may practice on bikes over 25 kW under the same practice conditions for direct access riders. You will revert to learner status while practicing (on a motorcycle greater than 25 kW) although test failure will not affect your existing licence.

[JackHolroyde]

The CBR isnt restricted, but I rarely take it above 11k rpm and i've only 6 months restriction left...
They'd have to strip your bike by the roadside to work it out...
I started on a restricted VFR400R though, and that was a good, friendly introduction to 'big bikes' (although the vfr was about 2 foot high and weighed as much as a sandbag!)

[Tripps]

Steve_T said:

When started I out, I decided to get a bike to commute on and escape the train and I felt that something small would leave me amongst the lane 1 & 2 muppets on the A3 with no reserves of acceleration to get clear of them. I also reasoned that CBT was a lower standard to take on the world with than a test and like you I wanted to get up to a decent standard and therefore a bit and safer as quick as possible, so I went for DAS. Once you're rid of the L plates and on a bigger bike, people take you a bit more seriously, rather than view you as a chicane. I passed on Dec 16th 2002, after three weekends doing CBT & DAS training. I picked my SV up a couple of weeks after passing and did one test ride in to work to suss the route out. Then I just went straight into commuting in Jan 2003 and learnt as I went.

Don't put too many obstacles in the way, get your CBT done, see how you find it, then do DAS, then work out what you want to ride as it may change with a little experience of how a bike feels to ride. I'd made my mind up before I started, so I had all my own kit and at this time of year, it makes a big difference to handling the crappy weather and being able to concentrate. I had a dodgy day when I first got on the 500, partly the instructor, partly me I suspect, but I went back the next day, different instructor with a more relaxed approach and after that point I just got better and better. I did put an extra day of DAS in, because I wanted more practice before the test, but the school was flexible, so it was easy to do.

Get things rolling mate!

Thanks again fella, have decided pending all going well on the CBT to go ahead and get the DAS sorted Have booked the theory for the 4th Feb now and got CBT on the 27th of this month, so will progress from there, with a visit to the bike show on the 3rd hopefully...

Just need to find a local instructor who'd do the DAS training at weekends, as the local one I'm using only does CBTs on Sunday, everything else Monday to Friday.