Brake line longevity

[dern]

How long do brake lines last on bikes?

I notice my brakes starting to feel slightly soft of late. Fluid is pretty new (I change it roughly twice a year) and pads are fine. Bike is coming up to 37000 miles and is a y2k blade.

Ta,

Mark

[Sossige]

Hi Mark -

Not qualified to answer from a bike point of view, but from a car point of view I would expect the hoses and piping to last the life of the car given the regime you say you have with brake fluid changing.

The main reason that brake pipes rot is the brake fluid attracting moisture and rotting the piping from the inside out.

I would expect your braking system to be fine - are you sure there's no trapped air in the system or that you have a small leak (crushable washers under banjo nuts are a favourite)

S

[dern]

Sossige said:

Hi Mark -

Not qualified to answer from a bike point of view, but from a car point of view I would expect the hoses and piping to last the life of the car given the regime you say you have with brake fluid changing.

The main reason that brake pipes rot is the brake fluid attracting moisture and rotting the piping from the inside out.

I would expect your braking system to be fine - are you sure there's no trapped air in the system or that you have a small leak (crushable washers under banjo nuts are a favourite)

That's pretty much my belief too to be honest. I'll give them a good flush through and inspect the joints and see if they're any better.

Cheers,

Mark

[freddytin]

Flexible hose definitely do not last the lifetime of the vehicle, unless your name is Chili

And the quality of the replacement flexis can affect the feel of the brakes too.

[black-k1]

The rubber flexi hoses on my Firestorm became spongy after about 8 years so I would suggest that yours may be end of life. Be careful though as once mine started to go, they went from slightly spongy to very spongy (to the point where the lever would touch the bars) in a very short space of time. Changing to braided steel hoses will give a substantial improvement in braking.

[dern]

black-k1 said:

Changing to braided steel hoses will give a substantial improvement in braking.

I've never really understood why this would be true. They would definitely feel better than a knackered set but I can't see how they would feel better than an oe set as the braiding is there to protect the outside against abrasion and not to make the hose more rigid.

I understand why people believe this as they change to braided hoses and notice an improvement but given that I notice brake fluid degradation after only 6 months (in as much as a fluid change makes the brakes seem firmer) I'd be tempted to put the improvement in feel down to the fluid rather than the fact that the hoses were braided rather than the oe hoses. Happy to be proved wrong though

[Hyperion]

I recently (just last week in fact) fitted some Goodridge SS hoses to my 9 year old 78'000 mile Divvy and the difference is HUGE!
Before I could almost pull the brake lever all the way to the bar - not any more. It stops solid after about 1" of travel. A very worthy upgrade IMO.
It's worth checking all the calliper pistons are moving in and out freely as well - one of mine was quite tight compared to the other.

I just need some decent pads now!

[catso]

I've just changed the braided lines on my bike after 10 years, however I only changed them because I'm using new calipers and the old lines wouldn't fit but they are still fine (if a little scruffy looking). As for rubber lines, I guess they don't last as long but if I had them I'd be changing them to braided anyway.

[fergus]

dern said:

black-k1 said:

Changing to braided steel hoses will give a substantial improvement in braking.

I've never really understood why this would be true. They would definitely feel better than a knackered set but I can't see how they would feel better than an oe set as the braiding is there to protect the outside against abrasion and not to make the hose more rigid.

The overbraid also stops the rubber hose bulging under pressure. Hence all your lever pressure is transferred to the pistons.

For a solid lever, after you've bled the brakes once, remove the calipers and trun them upside down, etc and knock them with a plastic hammer. This will dislodge any small air bubbles.

Also, zip tie the brake lever back to the bar end overnight, then in the morning, whilst holding the lever, clip the zip tie and *slowly* release the lever. This should guarantee a well blad, air free system.

All of this is considerably easier if you have a brembo lever/ m/c, which has a bleed nipple near the resevoir. You can achieve a full pressure lever with about 1cm of travel this way. With decent fluid, braided hoses, and decent pads, your lever will never go past about half way back to the bars.

good luck.

[black-k1]

dern said:

black-k1 said:

Changing to braided steel hoses will give a substantial improvement in braking.

I've never really understood why this would be true. They would definitely feel better than a knackered set but I can't see how they would feel better than an oe set as the braiding is there to protect the outside against abrasion and not to make the hose more rigid.

I understand why people believe this as they change to braided hoses and notice an improvement but given that I notice brake fluid degradation after only 6 months (in as much as a fluid change makes the brakes seem firmer) I'd be tempted to put the improvement in feel down to the fluid rather than the fact that the hoses were braided rather than the oe hoses. Happy to be proved wrong though

I think that the difference between the rubber and the braided steel lines (assuming all else is the same) is that the rubber lines will always have a slight bit of ‘ballooning’ when the brakes are applied with any real force. The braided steel lines will have no ‘ballooning’ effect so will transmit all the force from the lever to the pistons.

[black-k1]

fergus said:

dern said:

black-k1 said:

Changing to braided steel hoses will give a substantial improvement in braking.

I've never really understood why this would be true. They would definitely feel better than a knackered set but I can't see how they would feel better than an oe set as the braiding is there to protect the outside against abrasion and not to make the hose more rigid.

The overbraid also stops the rubber hose bulging under pressure. Hence all your lever pressure is transferred to the pistons.

I'm just too slow! If this was a wild west gun fight I'd be lying dead in the mud and Fergus would be riding off into the sunset!

[dern]

black-k1 said:

dern said:

black-k1 said:

Changing to braided steel hoses will give a substantial improvement in braking.

I've never really understood why this would be true. They would definitely feel better than a knackered set but I can't see how they would feel better than an oe set as the braiding is there to protect the outside against abrasion and not to make the hose more rigid.

I understand why people believe this as they change to braided hoses and notice an improvement but given that I notice brake fluid degradation after only 6 months (in as much as a fluid change makes the brakes seem firmer) I'd be tempted to put the improvement in feel down to the fluid rather than the fact that the hoses were braided rather than the oe hoses. Happy to be proved wrong though

I think that the difference between the rubber and the braided steel lines (assuming all else is the same) is that the rubber lines will always have a slight bit of ‘ballooning’ when the brakes are applied with any real force. The braided steel lines will have no ‘ballooning’ effect so will transmit all the force from the lever to the pistons.

Hmm... maybe

Cheers all. I'll flush the system out first and see how it feels. Have to go to manchester on it this weekend (as well as the normal commute) so I'll sit down and have a proper look at it after the weekend. Braided might be on the cards though as the bike is looking a bit sorry for itself and some bling might help

Regards,

Mark

PS. black-k1 - thanks for the post regarding the hid lights. I think we may have discussed this last year too and I didn't get round to doing anything about it. What you posted certainly makes a lot of sense and if I can find the time to do it this year I'll go that route - cheers.

Edited by dern on Tuesday 22 July 11:02

[fergus]

black-k1 said:

I'm just too slow! If this was a wild west gun fight I'd be lying dead in the mud and Fergus would be riding off into the sunset!

[black-k1]

dern said:

PS. black-k1 - thanks for the post regarding the hid lights. I think we may have discussed this last year too and I didn't get round to doing anything about it. What you posted certainly makes a lot of sense and if I can find the time to do it this year I'll go that route - cheers.

I think when we discussed it before I hadn’t actually taken my bike out on the road in the dark since changing the lights! Well I have now (obviously!!!) and it really is well worth doing. It’s only about an hours work assuming you can find somewhere to house the igniter units and have reasonable access to you headlight bulbs.

[rsv gone!]

I thought the lifespan of rubber hoses was as little as 3-4 years before sponginess sets in.

I prefer the hard feel of braided hoses so it is one of the few modifications I always carry out. (That and R&G bungs and gear indicator)

[dern]

black-k1 said:

dern said:

PS. black-k1 - thanks for the post regarding the hid lights. I think we may have discussed this last year too and I didn't get round to doing anything about it. What you posted certainly makes a lot of sense and if I can find the time to do it this year I'll go that route - cheers.

I think when we discussed it before I hadn’t actually taken my bike out on the road in the dark since changing the lights! Well I have now (obviously!!!) and it really is well worth doing. It’s only about an hours work assuming you can find somewhere to house the igniter units and have reasonable access to you headlight bulbs.

How long are the cables linking the boxes to the bulbs on a car set? There's easily enough room under the pillion seat if the cable is long enough.

Cheers,

Mark

[dern]

rsv gone! said:

I thought the lifespan of rubber hoses was as little as 3-4 years before sponginess sets in.

I've had no issues with the braking on mine in the 7 years since I bought it new despite doing the miles and commuting over the winter. They've always felt very strong indeed.

[black-k1]

dern said:

black-k1 said:

dern said:

PS. black-k1 - thanks for the post regarding the hid lights. I think we may have discussed this last year too and I didn't get round to doing anything about it. What you posted certainly makes a lot of sense and if I can find the time to do it this year I'll go that route - cheers.

I think when we discussed it before I hadn’t actually taken my bike out on the road in the dark since changing the lights! Well I have now (obviously!!!) and it really is well worth doing. It’s only about an hours work assuming you can find somewhere to house the igniter units and have reasonable access to you headlight bulbs.

How long are the cables linking the boxes to the bulbs on a car set? There's easily enough room under the pillion seat if the cable is long enough.

Cheers,

Mark

Pillion seat? – No chance! I had about 50cm to 60cm (ooh er missis!) which is just about enough to tuck the units into the fairing. You also need to get the existing light cables to the igniter units as they are the power/earth feeds.

[dern]

black-k1 said:

dern said:

black-k1 said:

dern said:

PS. black-k1 - thanks for the post regarding the hid lights. I think we may have discussed this last year too and I didn't get round to doing anything about it. What you posted certainly makes a lot of sense and if I can find the time to do it this year I'll go that route - cheers.

I think when we discussed it before I hadn’t actually taken my bike out on the road in the dark since changing the lights! Well I have now (obviously!!!) and it really is well worth doing. It’s only about an hours work assuming you can find somewhere to house the igniter units and have reasonable access to you headlight bulbs.

How long are the cables linking the boxes to the bulbs on a car set? There's easily enough room under the pillion seat if the cable is long enough.

Pillion seat? – No chance! I had about 50cm to 60cm (ooh er missis!) which is just about enough to tuck the units into the fairing. You also need to get the existing light cables to the igniter units as they are the power/earth feeds.

Ah. I'll have a rummage around in the fairing and see if there's any space there... how big are the boxes? Did you do anything to make them more water resistant?

[black-k1]

dern said:

black-k1 said:

dern said:

black-k1 said:

dern said:

PS. black-k1 - thanks for the post regarding the hid lights. I think we may have discussed this last year too and I didn't get round to doing anything about it. What you posted certainly makes a lot of sense and if I can find the time to do it this year I'll go that route - cheers.

I think when we discussed it before I hadn’t actually taken my bike out on the road in the dark since changing the lights! Well I have now (obviously!!!) and it really is well worth doing. It’s only about an hours work assuming you can find somewhere to house the igniter units and have reasonable access to you headlight bulbs.

How long are the cables linking the boxes to the bulbs on a car set? There's easily enough room under the pillion seat if the cable is long enough.

Pillion seat? – No chance! I had about 50cm to 60cm (ooh er missis!) which is just about enough to tuck the units into the fairing. You also need to get the existing light cables to the igniter units as they are the power/earth feeds.

Ah. I'll have a rummage around in the fairing and see if there's any space there... how big are the boxes? Did you do anything to make them more water resistant?

Boxes are about the size of a fag packet. (One per bulb)

I didn’t do anything regarding water resistance working on the assumption that they were supposed to be mounted in a car grill/bonnet area thus tucked up in a motorcycle fairing would be no worse.