Are the majority of scooterists suicidal?

[JMGS4]

Just started riding again after a break of 35 years (a small Yamaha)
Now I know how fragile we can be, so I dress (even in our present 35°C) with helmet, armoured jacket, solid trousers and boots, but I see loads of tee-shirts, miniskirts, bare skin and flipflops on scooters, and the young ladies (and boys) all seem to ride like twunts with relatively no protection apart from a helmet! And some even balance a full helmet on the back of their heads without it being on properly... Have they all a death wish? or haven't they ever had gravel/tarmac burns? Or am I just getting to be an old Grumpie Grandfather?

[hugoagogo]

JMGS4 said:

Or am I just getting to be an old Grumpie Grandfather?

yes, next

[lawrence567]

They think they're european...
I think its funny when you see them in winter with just hoodys and trackys on, in the pissing rain & cold temperatures...
Then i laugh!

Edited by lawrence567 on Wednesday 6th August 13:28

[King Herald]

JMGS4 said:

Just started riding again after a break of 35 years (a small Yamaha)
Now I know how fragile we can be, so I dress (even in our present 35°C) with helmet, armoured jacket, solid trousers and boots, but I see loads of tee-shirts, miniskirts, bare skin and flipflops on scooters, and the young ladies (and boys) all seem to ride like twunts with relatively no protection apart from a helmet! And some even balance a full helmet on the back of their heads without it being on properly... Have they all a death wish? or haven't they ever had gravel/tarmac burns? Or am I just getting to be an old Grumpie Grandfather?

Nope, they are just choosing (by ignorance probably) the degree of safety they want to ride with. Or without.

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

[surfsofa]

King Herald said:

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

Well put.

[cv01jw]

King Herald said:

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

Does that imply I am a bit backwards, in that I already drive a Volvo (480) and am doing my DAS this weekend?

[lawrence567]

I believe it's called a mid-life crisis? lol

[cyberface]

surfsofa said:

King Herald said:

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

Well put.

Also most scooters aren't capable of the big speeds that cause seriously violent abrasive injuries. Some scooters are only capable of the speed some of the lycra brigade can manage on their carbon road cycles and they don't wear any protective gear whatsoever.

My scooter could just hit 100 mph so was a special case, but I was a nutcase when I rode that and wore an odd combination of expensive helmet, fancy racing gloves, and a business suit. Fortunately I never stacked it, even though I was pulling wheelies and stoppies on it racing some bloke on a Fazer home from the station (I'd always win until the only straight bit of road on the journey home, at which point he'd come past easily )

[sleep envy]

got to say I wince when I see people on bikes/scooters without gloves

as for those in shorts and t-shirts, well they'll old enough to make their choices

[DoctorFan]

In answer to the OP, no they're just thick as mince.

[smack]

surfsofa said:

King Herald said:

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

Well put.

Hands up those bi-polar people who own a bike and a Volvo....

I know I am not alone - at least y2blade does too!

[sleep envy]

HRG although he's got a side car on his

[wiliferus]

I've just sold my Volvo V40 to finance my DAS and get a bike!! (I've just turned 30, wifey thinks its a mid life crisis...)

[YZF600R]

To be quite honest, around here it is the older people (male and female) on scooters who have no protection bar a cheap £40 open face helmet.

The younger people (under 30) generally at least have an armoured jacket and gloves, plus a full face helmet.

I ride a lot faster around town on my 125cc scooter than I do on my 600cc bike!

[Hyperion]

A few weeks ago, when it was summer, the roads were a wash with people on sports bikes wearing t-shirts, jeans and trainers.
Mad - but it's their choice.

[sjtscott]

cyberface said:

surfsofa said:

King Herald said:

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

Well put.

Also most scooters aren't capable of the big speeds that cause seriously violent abrasive injuries. Some scooters are only capable of the speed some of the lycra brigade can manage on their carbon road cycles and they don't wear any protective gear whatsoever.

My scooter could just hit 100 mph so was a special case, but I was a nutcase when I rode that and wore an odd combination of expensive helmet, fancy racing gloves, and a business suit. Fortunately I never stacked it, even though I was pulling wheelies and stoppies on it racing some bloke on a Fazer home from the station (I'd always win until the only straight bit of road on the journey home, at which point he'd come past easily )

Speed is irrelevant you can get a nasty injury or worst case die easily at less than 30mph! In london top speed is irrelevant, its the style and manor of riding that determines the best level of safety you can achieve, protective gear ups this saftey level somewhat. Its all about the level of risk you as a rider are prepared to make. The problem is particularly with scooter riders (generally showing L plates) is that generally they are crap at reading the road, traffic in front and around them. Generally also without the acceleration performance to also get them out of trouble. What I do see regularly are them plain ridden flat out down the outside or inside of traffic with no chance of stopping should something happen.

At the end of the day its personal choice if you wear protective kit or not over and above the mandated helmet. Most motorcyclist generally have a higher standard riding here in london, we also look out for each other and whats going on around us.

[cyberface]

sjtscott said:

cyberface said:

surfsofa said:

King Herald said:

No biker is 'safe', you can just make yourself safer and safer until you decide to get a Volvo instead of a bike.

Well put.

Also most scooters aren't capable of the big speeds that cause seriously violent abrasive injuries. Some scooters are only capable of the speed some of the lycra brigade can manage on their carbon road cycles and they don't wear any protective gear whatsoever.

My scooter could just hit 100 mph so was a special case, but I was a nutcase when I rode that and wore an odd combination of expensive helmet, fancy racing gloves, and a business suit. Fortunately I never stacked it, even though I was pulling wheelies and stoppies on it racing some bloke on a Fazer home from the station (I'd always win until the only straight bit of road on the journey home, at which point he'd come past easily )

Speed is irrelevant you can get a nasty injury or worst case die easily at less than 30mph! In london top speed is irrelevant, its the style and manor of riding that determines the best level of safety you can achieve, protective gear ups this saftey level somewhat. Its all about the level of risk you as a rider are prepared to make. The problem is particularly with scooter riders (generally showing L plates) is that generally they are crap at reading the road, traffic in front and around them. Generally also without the acceleration performance to also get them out of trouble. What I do see regularly are them plain ridden flat out down the outside or inside of traffic with no chance of stopping should something happen.

At the end of the day its personal choice if you wear protective kit or not over and above the mandated helmet. Most motorcyclist generally have a higher standard riding here in london, we also look out for each other and whats going on around us.

Agreed - hit something else at 30 mph and you can sustain a nasty injury. Clothing won't help you if you ride like a knob, though. And motorcyclists seem to be the least aggressive, followed by scooter riders, followed by cyclists. Who also seem to have a decreasing level of protective clothing. This observation is based on central London... I don't ride in London (too dangerous for me) but lycra-types on pushbikes seem to think that they own the road and pavement (and have NO way of stopping with such poor brakes) and are lethal in traffic... as a pedestrian in London I make a point of resorting to lifesavers every time I think of crossing the road in stationary traffic jams because there's bound to be some cyclist bombing between the cars and the pavement at more than 20 mph.

You can also tell the scooter riders who also have proper bikes a mile away from their riding style, so yeah I guess I agree with you that safety comes down to defensive riding and observation at the end of the day, whether you have a superbike or a pushbike. A full-on Power Ranger setup won't help you if you get a head-on with a London bus, after all, whatever you're riding...

[YZF600R]

What 100mph scooter did you have cyberface?

I had a T-Max 500, awesome scooter!

[JMGS4]

cyberface said:

I don't ride in London (too dangerous for me) but lycra-types on pushbikes seem to think that they own the road and pavement (and have NO way of stopping with such poor brakes) and are lethal in traffic...

I wouldn't dream of riding now in London (it was bad enough in the sixties), although I've not been back for at least 10 years...traffic was crazy then and must be even worse now that RedKens assinine regulations have bitten..
AND I'm probably no longer brave enough! Being a grandfather does make on think more than twice about doing something like riding in London! But I'm NOT a ditherer.....
Scooters and cyclists here (SW GErmany a small town of 40 thousand) are suicidal...especially the daft swiss cyclists who come over the border and think because they're wearing the latest Tour de France lycra, that they are indestructible.....

[cyberface]

YZF600R said:

What 100mph scooter did you have cyberface?

I had a T-Max 500, awesome scooter!

Those are heavy... mine was a Gilera Runner 180 two-stroke... with dellorto carb, malossi head, carbon fibre reed valves, trick spanny chamber zorst, HUGE front brake disc (it needed it), and an insane rider.

The trouble with the modern large-engined 4-stroke scooters is that they weigh as much as proper motorbikes... the Gilera was 110 kg or around that so normal 'scooter' weight, but with a silly screaming 2-stroke motor. It'd pull wheelies off the throttle even with the centrifugal clutch...

Absolutely brilliant machine - incredibly good fun to ride, very reliable, you could corner them pretty well with better bushings in the rear subframe (not full-on knee down like a proper bike but you could lean it over far enough to scrape the centrestand).

Unfortunately they all got nicked. I had 3 in a row as I liked them so much... all three got stolen. The first one lasted a year or so, which was good. Then the second only lasted 2 weeks, went straight back to the shop and bought another one. That lasted 6 months, after that I gave up biking and sadly let the thief scum win.

All stolen from a railway station scooter park with alleged CCTV. When asked for the tapes, the station master said they didn't work, it was just for show. So I asked him whether the big signs saying to women that they were safe in the station because of CCTV were also lies and that rapists are free to roam in this station, and he got all aggressive.

Anyway I've just bought a CBR600 so we'll see how long that lasts. If it gets stolen like the scooters did, then I will probably have to let the thief scum win again and give up something I enjoy - I simply can't afford to keep paying out.

They don't make the Gilera 2 strokes any more, which is sad - they were awesome fun, real hooligan machines. I had a plan to build a rat version to keep the thieves away - a tatty ragged looking thing with crap bodywork, but a fully tuned motor and big brakes, but the brakes would give it away and it'd get nicked, so I didn't do it in the end.