GSXR 750 K4 gearbox failure
Discussion
Any body had any issues with gear selection, any sports bike really but Gixer specific if poss.
Mine will no logger go into 6th gear, well it goes in, but as soon as you touch the throttle anything more than say 5-10%, its jumps out, you get a false neutral for a second and some horrible noises and it jerks a bit. 1st through to 5th absolutly fine, any amount of throtle even abuse poping the clucth etc all good.
Looks like I'm going to have to take the engine out and get the local suzuki dealer to rebuild the gearbox part of it.
Would like to know if anyone else had a similar problem, how much it cost to fix etc.
Many thanks.
Mine will no logger go into 6th gear, well it goes in, but as soon as you touch the throttle anything more than say 5-10%, its jumps out, you get a false neutral for a second and some horrible noises and it jerks a bit. 1st through to 5th absolutly fine, any amount of throtle even abuse poping the clucth etc all good.
Looks like I'm going to have to take the engine out and get the local suzuki dealer to rebuild the gearbox part of it.
Would like to know if anyone else had a similar problem, how much it cost to fix etc.
Many thanks.
Don't talk to me about GSXR gearbox problems!
Essentially it's an engine out and taking the lower crankcase off jobbie, then replacing the relevant gears. I've just been through all of this with my '99 GSXR, I imagine it's the same problem of the dogs being worn out and slipping under force.
Hopefully this'll help you: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Essentially it's an engine out and taking the lower crankcase off jobbie, then replacing the relevant gears. I've just been through all of this with my '99 GSXR, I imagine it's the same problem of the dogs being worn out and slipping under force.
Hopefully this'll help you: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thanks for that mat, just been looking at your pictures. Very helpful.
I still cant decide if I'm going to re build it my self, or just take the lump out myself (alot of the labour) and have Suzuki build it.
Not wanting to rub salt in the wounds, but how much were all the parts.??
Are there any shims or thrust washers where you have to measure the clearances and fit specific sizes parts? or are all the spacers the same.
Thanks again.
I still cant decide if I'm going to re build it my self, or just take the lump out myself (alot of the labour) and have Suzuki build it.
Not wanting to rub salt in the wounds, but how much were all the parts.??
Are there any shims or thrust washers where you have to measure the clearances and fit specific sizes parts? or are all the spacers the same.
Thanks again.
Tame Technician said:
Thanks for that mat, just been looking at your pictures. Very helpful.
I still cant decide if I'm going to re build it my self, or just take the lump out myself (alot of the labour) and have Suzuki build it.
Not wanting to rub salt in the wounds, but how much were all the parts.??
Are there any shims or thrust washers where you have to measure the clearances and fit specific sizes parts? or are all the spacers the same.
Thanks again.
We didn't actually do any work on the gears, so I don't really know what specifically needs to be done there, I think it was just a case of taking the 2 worn gears out and putting the new ones in, pretty sure there aren't any shims/thrust washers, there are some oils seals which'll need replacing I think. I'm not particularly technically minded, so not sure who much help I can be really, but feel free to ask I still cant decide if I'm going to re build it my self, or just take the lump out myself (alot of the labour) and have Suzuki build it.
Not wanting to rub salt in the wounds, but how much were all the parts.??
Are there any shims or thrust washers where you have to measure the clearances and fit specific sizes parts? or are all the spacers the same.
Thanks again.
The whole job came to about £400 after buying all the bits and bobs required, I think the gearbox parts came to about £180 (2 gears & selector fork), which was pretty expensive I thought :? Still cheaper than paying someone else to take it all apart though.
Speaking to the mechanic/MOT Tester when mine had it's ticket last month, false neutrals are not so uncommon on gixxers of that age - I had a period of hitting a false neutral 5-6th, doing the same as you talk about, but not anymore. But mine wouldn't slip out of gear like you have.
Here is a US store with the gearbox diagram for your bike:
http://www.bignumber1.com/fiche_section_detail.asp...
Here is a US store with the gearbox diagram for your bike:
http://www.bignumber1.com/fiche_section_detail.asp...
Thanks for the diagram.
Well I put the quiet exhaust back on so they could hear what was going on, and took the bike to the local Suzuki dealer, they said they would have a ride and a listen, for free, and let me know whta they thought.
Suzuki man said, thats really bad, it will have to come apart for a look, bound to need at least a fork and a couple of gears, parts could be £300 upwards, worst case scenario if it need a set of folks and gears was around £1000. And now it wont go into 2nd without a load of noise too, it was only 6th before. Great
So before anything else gets worse I'm taking the engine out. I'm a car mechanic so I'm easily capable of the engine removal its the strip and rebuild of the gear clusters I'm worried about (I dont usually do that). However the great guys in the Suzuki workshop there, told me how to take it apart and said to bring the case with the gears in and if I couldn't tell what it needs they would go through it all with me when I come to order the parts, this would save me 10 hours labour at £55per hour.
In case any ones interested I though I'd post up some pictures, Inspired by Mellow Matt.
Before
After an hour or so. - Engine still in, side panel and tank off.
After a few hours - Engine out.
At the end of Day 1 - Thats doesnt look good. Selector folk bent and rubbed against gear.
Also dogs on 6th gear edges worn badly.
Well I put the quiet exhaust back on so they could hear what was going on, and took the bike to the local Suzuki dealer, they said they would have a ride and a listen, for free, and let me know whta they thought.
Suzuki man said, thats really bad, it will have to come apart for a look, bound to need at least a fork and a couple of gears, parts could be £300 upwards, worst case scenario if it need a set of folks and gears was around £1000. And now it wont go into 2nd without a load of noise too, it was only 6th before. Great
So before anything else gets worse I'm taking the engine out. I'm a car mechanic so I'm easily capable of the engine removal its the strip and rebuild of the gear clusters I'm worried about (I dont usually do that). However the great guys in the Suzuki workshop there, told me how to take it apart and said to bring the case with the gears in and if I couldn't tell what it needs they would go through it all with me when I come to order the parts, this would save me 10 hours labour at £55per hour.
In case any ones interested I though I'd post up some pictures, Inspired by Mellow Matt.
Before
After an hour or so. - Engine still in, side panel and tank off.
After a few hours - Engine out.
At the end of Day 1 - Thats doesnt look good. Selector folk bent and rubbed against gear.
Also dogs on 6th gear edges worn badly.
Er.........Do i want to own up to this.
Well only just about every single upshift apart from the running in period, so five years and 12,000 miles worth yes. I thought you couldn't hurt it doing that as long as it was quick and smooth with a slight roll off the throttle. I take it thats not the case.
Interestingly, I dont use top gear much, and dont think i usually clutchless shift into top either, I thought it was odd that its 6th gear went.
Well only just about every single upshift apart from the running in period, so five years and 12,000 miles worth yes. I thought you couldn't hurt it doing that as long as it was quick and smooth with a slight roll off the throttle. I take it thats not the case.
Interestingly, I dont use top gear much, and dont think i usually clutchless shift into top either, I thought it was odd that its 6th gear went.
Tame Technician said:
Er.........Do i want to own up to this.
Well only just about every single upshift apart from the running in period, so five years and 12,000 miles worth yes. I thought you couldn't hurt it doing that as long as it was quick and smooth with a slight roll off the throttle. I take it thats not the case.
Interestingly, I dont use top gear much, and dont think i usually clutchless shift into top either, I thought it was odd that its 6th gear went.
Every now and then won't hurt. Every upshift over 12,000 miles will cause significant wear and will result in your gearbox exploding.Well only just about every single upshift apart from the running in period, so five years and 12,000 miles worth yes. I thought you couldn't hurt it doing that as long as it was quick and smooth with a slight roll off the throttle. I take it thats not the case.
Interestingly, I dont use top gear much, and dont think i usually clutchless shift into top either, I thought it was odd that its 6th gear went.
Tame Technician said:
Thanks very much for the offer, Would save be a bundle.
But I dont think it'll fit, 600 and 750 share cases but 1000 is different. Internals may be the same with different ratios, and I wouldn't want to risk it.
Check that link I posted up, and not ethe part numbers - many gixxers share the same parts, so the forks and gears may be the same.But I dont think it'll fit, 600 and 750 share cases but 1000 is different. Internals may be the same with different ratios, and I wouldn't want to risk it.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Tame Technician said:
Er.........Do i want to own up to this.
Well only just about every single upshift apart from the running in period, so five years and 12,000 miles worth yes. I thought you couldn't hurt it doing that as long as it was quick and smooth with a slight roll off the throttle. I take it thats not the case.
Interestingly, I dont use top gear much, and dont think i usually clutchless shift into top either, I thought it was odd that its 6th gear went.
Every now and then won't hurt. Every upshift over 12,000 miles will cause significant wear and will result in your gearbox exploding.Well only just about every single upshift apart from the running in period, so five years and 12,000 miles worth yes. I thought you couldn't hurt it doing that as long as it was quick and smooth with a slight roll off the throttle. I take it thats not the case.
Interestingly, I dont use top gear much, and dont think i usually clutchless shift into top either, I thought it was odd that its 6th gear went.
Speak to TTS, Richard often has spares. Failing that somebody like Nova Racing . . . http://www.novaracing.co.uk/suzuki-gsxr600.htm
Buying the gears direct from a Suzuki dealer is very expensive.
Buying the gears direct from a Suzuki dealer is very expensive.
Went to order the parts at Suzuki today. £513 all in.
Spoke to the top man in the workshop, showed him the gears and forks that were damaged, he said its not from cluthcless shifting, I'm just unlucky. Apparently the 1998 ish SRAD gixers did this all the time, they used to keep the gears and fork in stock. But the later K series not so much, but they get a few where 2nd gear goes, mines the first they ever seen where 6th is shot. He said they have changed them before as low as 4000 miles, and yet on the ramp for service a 70,000 miles gixer thats never had a problem at all.
Now I got to wait for the bits to arrive, and get her build up and running again before the winter comes.
Spoke to the top man in the workshop, showed him the gears and forks that were damaged, he said its not from cluthcless shifting, I'm just unlucky. Apparently the 1998 ish SRAD gixers did this all the time, they used to keep the gears and fork in stock. But the later K series not so much, but they get a few where 2nd gear goes, mines the first they ever seen where 6th is shot. He said they have changed them before as low as 4000 miles, and yet on the ramp for service a 70,000 miles gixer thats never had a problem at all.
Now I got to wait for the bits to arrive, and get her build up and running again before the winter comes.
6th & 2nd gear normally share a selector fork so it makes sense that as it got worse the problem appeared in the other gear too.
its also a common thing on early gsx1400s, so seems like typical suzuki build issues. once you the shafts apart you'll probably see wear on the dogs where the gears engage too.
its also a common thing on early gsx1400s, so seems like typical suzuki build issues. once you the shafts apart you'll probably see wear on the dogs where the gears engage too.
Update, Parts came. So I removed the gears from casing and replaced damaged components,
Input shaft disassembled read to go together with new gears. - Notice the the much needed idiot board and Suzuki manual.
Partially assembled, Note the need to line up the oil hole in the bush/spacer.
Fully assembled input shaft read to go back into the gearbox case.
My circlip pliers weren't really the right shape, with the right ones would have taken 10 mins max, really is very simple to do. Just fiddly if your pliers aren't quite right.
Have now Reassembled everything and its now back in the bike. Just run it up to temperature and went through the gears on the stands, seems ok. Just a few nuts and bolts to do tomorrow, and then its road test time. Fingers crossed.
Input shaft disassembled read to go together with new gears. - Notice the the much needed idiot board and Suzuki manual.
Partially assembled, Note the need to line up the oil hole in the bush/spacer.
Fully assembled input shaft read to go back into the gearbox case.
My circlip pliers weren't really the right shape, with the right ones would have taken 10 mins max, really is very simple to do. Just fiddly if your pliers aren't quite right.
Have now Reassembled everything and its now back in the bike. Just run it up to temperature and went through the gears on the stands, seems ok. Just a few nuts and bolts to do tomorrow, and then its road test time. Fingers crossed.
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