Nitrons setup advice please
Discussion
Embarrassed to open this thread, having been so vocally pleased with my nitrons 48 hours ago, based on 60 miles of motorway on the way home.
200 miles of A/B roads today and 2 probs became apparent. Firstly, the car now tramlines horribly, much more so than before. And secondly, the car is grounding - 4 or 5 times today alone, "luckily" it happened at up to "only" 40mph or so, but i'm still cringing hours later at what it must have done to the chassis. We're not talking about major bumps or dips in the road either.... Something's not right, surely ?
Obviously, they've only been on 48 hours, so I'm sure the fitters will happily adjust them, but before I go back to them, I would prefer to have some understanding of what the problem might be.
Nitrons dampers & nitrons springs, combined with new leven r/j links (but can't imagine they've anything to do with it). Set up is +16/22
I've got a feeling (speed bumps are suddenly a problem too at slowest poss approach and even taken at an angle ) the car might now be sitting lower.
Any ideas of where this install/set up has gone wrong ?
My poor chassis (god forbid sump too)
ETA, just been advised it's the exhaust and arb that'll be grounding, not sump or chassis, but cold comfort really. Either way, somethings getting kn*ckered..
200 miles of A/B roads today and 2 probs became apparent. Firstly, the car now tramlines horribly, much more so than before. And secondly, the car is grounding - 4 or 5 times today alone, "luckily" it happened at up to "only" 40mph or so, but i'm still cringing hours later at what it must have done to the chassis. We're not talking about major bumps or dips in the road either.... Something's not right, surely ?
Obviously, they've only been on 48 hours, so I'm sure the fitters will happily adjust them, but before I go back to them, I would prefer to have some understanding of what the problem might be.
Nitrons dampers & nitrons springs, combined with new leven r/j links (but can't imagine they've anything to do with it). Set up is +16/22
I've got a feeling (speed bumps are suddenly a problem too at slowest poss approach and even taken at an angle ) the car might now be sitting lower.
Any ideas of where this install/set up has gone wrong ?
My poor chassis (god forbid sump too)
ETA, just been advised it's the exhaust and arb that'll be grounding, not sump or chassis, but cold comfort really. Either way, somethings getting kn*ckered..
Edited by Jammie Dodger on Saturday 18th June 09:56
Your ride height is definetly set too low if your grounding out, thats a basic installation setup issue of the spring platform height rather than the damper settings.
I had a similar problem when we first did my chim. we set it up in the workshop and then took it to a circuit to set it up. It was fantastic on the track, but on the motor way on the way home I had to wind the dampers off, to stop my teeth falling out and raise the ride height when I got home to stop it grounding.
I can recommend going to see DOM at midland classic restorations in ombersley nr worcester if you want it setting up, He can corner weight the car for you as well, which makes a big difference over a static ride height setup.
As you've found out its usually the arb that hits the floor before anything else so you shouldnt have damaged anything
Cheers
G
I had a similar problem when we first did my chim. we set it up in the workshop and then took it to a circuit to set it up. It was fantastic on the track, but on the motor way on the way home I had to wind the dampers off, to stop my teeth falling out and raise the ride height when I got home to stop it grounding.
I can recommend going to see DOM at midland classic restorations in ombersley nr worcester if you want it setting up, He can corner weight the car for you as well, which makes a big difference over a static ride height setup.
As you've found out its usually the arb that hits the floor before anything else so you shouldnt have damaged anything
Cheers
G
Having struggled with a few different suspension setups before sticking with the Nitrons I agree with the advice here. Ride height is number one. I received my Griff back from a specialist once with all new AVOs on it (that's another story ...) and they had set it up so low that whilst it looked amazing I couldn't get it up my drive. Naturally it was vile to drive too.
If the car feels "uncertain" in general driving (i.e. not when making progress and loading the suspension) then my experience is that the issue is far more likely to be geometry than your Nitron suspension settings although running the rear stiffer than the front seems like an error to me!
If the car feels "uncertain" in general driving (i.e. not when making progress and loading the suspension) then my experience is that the issue is far more likely to be geometry than your Nitron suspension settings although running the rear stiffer than the front seems like an error to me!
A well known ex Main Dealer with racing experience had the job, with whom I've spent £3500 in the month I've owned the car.
Note on my invoice referring to dampers as +16/22
They looked after my last one which I also maintained regardless of cost. "Xxxg, if you say it needs doing, do it - i trust you to do a good job"
At risk of blowing a fuse here because I strongly suspect he's given my car to his least experienced mech to deal with, which I've no problem with if it's done right. But it wasn't. The geo was done a fortnight ago, by them. If it needed doing again after the nitrons fit, I expected it to be done again. Looking at the bill, at least 6 hours labour charged....
Not happy at all !
Meeting Jamie at Castle on tues to discuss 380bhp and he's agreed to check my setup while I'm there.
If Xxxg at Xxvxx Xxrxxx doesn't value my business enough to see the job done right, then i'll take it elsewhere.
That's the problem with trust, it can get taken advantage of eventually...
Note on my invoice referring to dampers as +16/22
They looked after my last one which I also maintained regardless of cost. "Xxxg, if you say it needs doing, do it - i trust you to do a good job"
At risk of blowing a fuse here because I strongly suspect he's given my car to his least experienced mech to deal with, which I've no problem with if it's done right. But it wasn't. The geo was done a fortnight ago, by them. If it needed doing again after the nitrons fit, I expected it to be done again. Looking at the bill, at least 6 hours labour charged....
Not happy at all !
Meeting Jamie at Castle on tues to discuss 380bhp and he's agreed to check my setup while I'm there.
If Xxxg at Xxvxx Xxrxxx doesn't value my business enough to see the job done right, then i'll take it elsewhere.
That's the problem with trust, it can get taken advantage of eventually...
Edited by Jammie Dodger on Saturday 18th June 17:06
Jammie Dodger said:
The geo was done a fortnight ago, by them. If it needed doing again after the nitrons fit, I expected it to be done again.
Any work on the suspension and you'd want to check the geo again. It does sound like the ride height was set to "looking cool" rather than "works properly" You can change the ride height quickly, jack the car up and you'll see there is an adjustable collar that the bottom ( or top depending which way up the dampers are fitted) of the spring sits on, screw so the spring moves up, try say 5 turns, on each damper, and see how it feels.
I've seen one so low, not only was it grounding the tyres were hitting the top of the arches!!!!
Graham said:
You can change the ride height quickly, jack the car up and you'll see there is an adjustable collar that the bottom (or top depending which way up the dampers are fitted) of the spring sits on, screw so the spring moves up, try say 5 turns, on each damper, and see how it feels.
Thanks Grahamthe dealer concerned knows I've had the car at over 140mph, knows that I'm concerned about how it goes, stops, handles, rides and steers rather than how it looks and I remain annoyed that he let it go out as it is.
Unfortunately I don't have even those basic facilities - front door opens straight onto the pavement, no drive let alone a garage.
I did find it odd that I wasn't even asked how I wanted the setup tuned between soft and hard. I queried it and was told "they're just playing with it now to get it right".
Out of interest, what would a "normal" fast road damper set-up be, bias front to back or equal all round ?
If they'd asked i would have suggested dialling out as much roll as poss., but compliant enough to keep all 4 wheels on the ground. It's pretty choppy right now, as well as the grounding & tramlining !
I'll find out more when I see Jamie on tuesday. He offers corner weighting and suspension set-ups, so I trust he knows what he's doing.
Depending on his advice, I'll decide whether a bollo*king is in order.
Edited by Jammie Dodger on Saturday 18th June 19:16
why don't you phone your indie and say you ain't happy, they should sort out if they are any good,
like Graham says it's easy to change settings, 3 full turns of collar will give you an extra 5mm, and to set damper settings wind em right up to 24 then knock the fronts down 12 clicks and rears 14 clicks from hard, that's a medium setting.
Once you have your ride height sorted only then take it to get the geo sorted.
like Graham says it's easy to change settings, 3 full turns of collar will give you an extra 5mm, and to set damper settings wind em right up to 24 then knock the fronts down 12 clicks and rears 14 clicks from hard, that's a medium setting.
Once you have your ride height sorted only then take it to get the geo sorted.
Hhmmm, sympathies. I was told once to take my car for a shock change and set up to a well known 'guru'. Seems I felt 'set-up' as the job was apalling, didn't change settings from the box on the shocks and didn't even tighten ANY of the backing rings on ride height adjusters. Wish I'd kicked up more of a fuss at the time but didn't realise until I got under the car myself a couple of weeks after to see what was going on with the ride. 
Will certainly tell others not to go there.
Keep us posted.
Will certainly tell others not to go there. Keep us posted.
Edited by macdeb on Saturday 18th June 19:33
To settle your mind before Tuesday try Spend's advice above and look under the front of the car at the two wishbones that go from the chassis to behind the road wheels.
There's an upper one about 18" from the ground and a lower one about 6" from the ground. The lower one should be level with the tarmac and if it instead slopes upward as it goes out to the road wheel then car is almost certainly set up too low for road use. Ride height/geometry always needs to be set up after any serious suspension work so if the height is wrong it's unlikely the geometry is perfect.
Regarding your question on settings, from memory I run my Nitrons around the middle of their adjustment range but with a few clicks softer at the rear to help traction. You could try it but if the car does turn out to be too low and/or the geometry is out I wouldn't waste your time experimenting until it's sorted.
Best of luck!
ETA: Good to see SAGRIFF and my setups are quite similar!
There's an upper one about 18" from the ground and a lower one about 6" from the ground. The lower one should be level with the tarmac and if it instead slopes upward as it goes out to the road wheel then car is almost certainly set up too low for road use. Ride height/geometry always needs to be set up after any serious suspension work so if the height is wrong it's unlikely the geometry is perfect.
Regarding your question on settings, from memory I run my Nitrons around the middle of their adjustment range but with a few clicks softer at the rear to help traction. You could try it but if the car does turn out to be too low and/or the geometry is out I wouldn't waste your time experimenting until it's sorted.
Best of luck!
ETA: Good to see SAGRIFF and my setups are quite similar!
Edited by dumbfunk on Saturday 18th June 19:38
SAGRIFF said:
why don't you phone your indie and say you ain't happy, they should sort out if they are any good,
like Graham says it's easy to change settings, 3 full turns of collar will give you an extra 5mm, and to set damper settings wind em right up to 24 then knock the fronts down 12 clicks and rears 14 clicks from hard, that's a medium setting.
Once you have your ride height sorted only then take it to get the geo sorted.
So fronts from 16 now to 12 and rears from 22 now to 10 for medium, then fine tune to my "taste".like Graham says it's easy to change settings, 3 full turns of collar will give you an extra 5mm, and to set damper settings wind em right up to 24 then knock the fronts down 12 clicks and rears 14 clicks from hard, that's a medium setting.
Once you have your ride height sorted only then take it to get the geo sorted.
It was 10:30 last wednesday I picked it up, not 5pm friday and they'd had it since 10am Monday, so they were certainly not forced into a rush job!
As for sorting it out, they should have got it right in the first place, bearing in mind not only the damper settings but also the ride height, so not sure I want them touching it again. They'll get a chance, for reputation and goodwill, to make a contribution to someone else putting it right. I'll vote with my feet ! TVR Power are only 15 minutes further away, likewise Jamie, so I'm going to pick and choose now I'm learning who's who.
As i said, its not like i pootle along in it - having confidence in the handling is important to me, which is why I engaged a specialist to deal with it in the first place.
Anyway, thanks to all for your input, it's really helpful of you to allow me to tap into your experience and contacts
Edited by Jammie Dodger on Saturday 18th June 21:24
Jamie Rogers has checked my suspension setup for me and corrected it. Much better now. Not fully optimised yet, he can do that when he has the car in for a month for the engine/charger work.
what had happened...
The company that fitted the nitrons had only set the geo 10 days before. They fitted the nitrons, lowered the car substantially, but didn't alter the geometry to suit. They had set the dampers at 6 back from the max of 22, all round, rather than 16 rear and 22 front as I'd been led to understand - that was a misunderstanding.
Simple really. I'd hoped they would know better regarding the geo though.
Without it being said, I think they realise that's the end of the line for our relationship...
what had happened...
The company that fitted the nitrons had only set the geo 10 days before. They fitted the nitrons, lowered the car substantially, but didn't alter the geometry to suit. They had set the dampers at 6 back from the max of 22, all round, rather than 16 rear and 22 front as I'd been led to understand - that was a misunderstanding.
Simple really. I'd hoped they would know better regarding the geo though.
Without it being said, I think they realise that's the end of the line for our relationship...
I had a similar experience (with a different specialist) and arrived at exactly the same conclusion.
In my mind the handling set up of any car let alone one as potentially challenging as ours is absolutely a safety critical service item. To make such a basic error in this area is unforgivable in light of the possible consequences.
In my mind the handling set up of any car let alone one as potentially challenging as ours is absolutely a safety critical service item. To make such a basic error in this area is unforgivable in light of the possible consequences.
dumbfunk said:
I had a similar experience (with a different specialist) and arrived at exactly the same conclusion.
In my mind the handling set up of any car let alone one as potentially challenging as ours is absolutely a safety critical service item. To make such a basic error in this area is unforgivable in light of the possible consequences.
When the original fitters and I had the "difficult" conversation, he got all passive-aggressive and said it was set so low in order to reduce the COG and thereby improve the handling. I pointed out that dragging over a bump at speed did nothing for the handling from the driver's seat point of view..In my mind the handling set up of any car let alone one as potentially challenging as ours is absolutely a safety critical service item. To make such a basic error in this area is unforgivable in light of the possible consequences.
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