FACE LIFT OR PRE FACE LIFT CHIM

[zippo73]

Still looking for decent Chim for mostly everyday use, pound for pound which model would be better, I haven't driven a non power steering model, but a lot of Chim owners agree that the non power steering model gives a better driving experiance, is the build quality that much better on a face lift model ? and just what are the differances in spec ?, as the body line changes are apparent enough - ADVICE OR THOUGHTS PLEASE.

Thanks

[haircutmike]

I'll only comment on the P/S, get it!

Forget the P/S is for wimps argument, non P/S with decent tyres feels like a dated bus.
Mine was non P/S and I converted it, best mod done !

[JonyTVR]

haircutmike said:

I'll only comment on the P/S, get it!

Forget the P/S is for wimps argument, non P/S with decent tyres feels like a dated bus.
Mine was non P/S and I converted it, best mod done !

Wimp

[Jammy Dodger]

build quality was consistently inconsistent from 93 to 2003 !

Rover gearbox replaced with Borg Warner T5 box in 94 (reverse is right and down in the T5)

Otherwise, having had both non PAS and PAS on a 94 430 and current 98 (f/lift) 500 respectively, there is quite a difference.

On anything bigger than standard tyres the non-PAS would be hard work parking, unless you're powerfully built. At speed obviously it lightens up.

The PAS conversely has a quicker rack, which in my example (they're all slightly different) means the turn in is so sharp that you need to be aware of it.

Generally PAS is more sought after for resale.

Those who "prefer" non-PAS are "sometimes" biased because theirs doesn't have it.

Check the wiki but IIRC the 450 got better (500) brakes at the time of the facelift.

Be warned - (i saw a couple advertised when i was last in the market) - typically for TVR, there will be some "intermediate" facelift cars, with some facelift elements but not all, whether cosmetic or under the skin. Example, I saw a facelifted front end but running the pre-facelift rear lights and this was as it left the factory.

I think consensus would be : test drive as many as you can, accepting that is a crucial part of the buying process, until you find one that feels right to you. As a rule, condition and TLC from former keepers mean more than year/model/spec.

Edit because I originally made a dumb fk schoolboy error in my original post

Edited by Jammy Dodger on Wednesday 27th July 20:02

[peaktorque]

The build quality was ste from start to finish

I'd personally go for the more aggressive looking pre-facelift with PAS and the T5 'box (like mine obviously).

I've had first hand experience with an LT77 'box in a TVR and didn't like it.

[Chas88]

Jammy Dodger said:

build quality was consistently inconsistent from 93 to 2003 !

Rover gearbox replaced with Borg Warner T5 box in 94 (reverse is right and down in the T5)

EFA

[Jammy Dodger]

Chas88 said:

EFA

doh, he's right you know...

my elbow is stinging after a curry last night and I think I sprained my a*se playing tennis....

[anonymous-user]

There were many subtle body changes, however not all happened at the same time.

The T5 box came in around 1994.

The door buttons changed from a lock/push button to a disc push button around this time.

1995-1997 time, revisions to dashboard and further subsequent revisions to all alloy knobs & switches.

I believe there was some standardisation with the Griff in relation to suspension around this time, I seem to recall the Chims from around this date forward all having larger brake discs.

1996/1997 The door opening buttons were relocated to under the door mirrors as well as revisions to the following:
Boot hinges revised slightly.
Boot has larger overhang.
Bumper overrider is now body colour and deeper with more overhang.
Front now has splitter accross the grill.
Bonnet has larger vents and a deeper trailing edge covering more of the wipers.
I think the revisions to the door buttons and other revisions did not happen at the same time, there may have been a few months separating the changes. P reg ones are the earliest you would expect to see with these changes.

Early 1998:

Boot hinges revised again, now no external hinges.
4 round lights replace the rear Fiesta units.
Rear numberplate is now top lit and no longer backlit.
I think around this time or slightly later a can of tyreweld replaced the spare wheel.

1999 Odometer is now an LCD readout.

2001/2002:

Faired in lamps
Cerbera seats.

I would say the later cars are better just because you get the feeling some of the earlier issues may have been sorted out as time went on.

[Jammy Dodger]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

but as we established, you can't count on these dates - my late 98 car has a spare wheel and external boot hinges !!

[Andy chimaera]

haircutmike said:

I'll only comment on the P/S, get it!

Forget the P/S is for wimps argument, non P/S with decent tyres feels like a dated bus.
Mine was non P/S and I converted it, best mod done !

I agree, for every day use, its HEAVY trying to park, car park manuvering etc..., i converted mine too and its sooo much sharper as well, 2 turns to lock on non PAS its 2.5 is it? best conversion i done

[Harrytsg]

Just to add my two penneth to the pas/non pas debate , mine (daily driver) doesnt have pas, all you have to do is drive like you had too before cars had pas and not sit there spinning the steering wheel without the wheels rolling, its quite simple really.

[.Mark]

JonyTVR said:

haircutmike said:

I'll only comment on the P/S, get it!

Forget the P/S is for wimps argument, non P/S with decent tyres feels like a dated bus.
Mine was non P/S and I converted it, best mod done !

Wimp

Yeah wimp

Actually, I was angling for a PAS model when we got ours, but wife insisted on non-PAS because she preferred the feel from the road and the directedness (real word?) on turn in.

[SILICONEKID340HP]

The pre face lift looks far better ..I like the grill and the car looks shorter for some reason ,but it would be nice to get rid of the external boot hinges and door opener.Don`t the later cars suffer from damaged radiators..

Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Wednesday 27th July 21:29

[anonymous-user]

Jammy Dodger said:

but as we established, you can't count on these dates - my late 98 car has a spare wheel and external boot hinges !!

Does it have the Fiesta rear lights and backlit plate?

Mine has the late 1997 spec (registered Jan 98) and has the Fiesta rear lights, external boot hinges and backlit plate.

I have seen/heard of a Feb 1998 one (also on an R plate), that has the toplit plate and rear round lights. I am not sure whether they would have been making both specs at the same time.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I had a March 98 reg. I went to the factory in Feb, and they were coming off the line with both versions of rear lights.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

[anonymous-user]

SILICONEKID340HP said:

Don`t the later cars suffer from damaged radiators..

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 27th July 21:29

Mine didn't, but then again I've got an A/C Condensor in front of it

Saying that the radiator disintegrated behind it though (about half of the fins had gone) and you couldn't see it. Got to get a new a/c condensor aswell as that has disintegrated!!

[Jammy Dodger]

98S and November IIRC

Round lights !

[Jammy Dodger]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Mine will be on it's 3rd rad since 98 within a week or so. Radtec this time, defended by a couple of intercoolers. Wonder how long they'll last !

[anonymous-user]

So round rear lights, I imagine top lit plate (Feb 98 onwards spec). The hinge mod/deletion of spare wheel must have come in during 1999.

Thats the thing with these cars, changes were happening all the time. I imagine when people refer to facelift, they mean the slatted front grill/larger bonnet vents & bumper/boot overhangs, but there are loads of other less obvious revisions that happened before and afterwards aswell. Round rear lights and toplit plates being the obvious ones in 1998.