4.6 engine advice/help/knowledge
Discussion
Hi All
can you help, i've been looking through the forum all day, and I may have found loads of useful info, I can't seem to find what I wanted. I know its very hard to tell but just a rough idea if anyone has similar.
Any ideas what sort of performance you would be looking at with 4.6 cross bolted block (from v8 developments), with uprated cam, not sure on spec yet. large plenum, smooth bore induction kit. head from wildcat engineering (stage 1 i think)
http://www.roverv8engine.co.uk/index2.htm
just wondering maybe guess BHP or performance ie compared to 450 chim or 500 chim
thanks in advance
Brett
can you help, i've been looking through the forum all day, and I may have found loads of useful info, I can't seem to find what I wanted. I know its very hard to tell but just a rough idea if anyone has similar.
Any ideas what sort of performance you would be looking at with 4.6 cross bolted block (from v8 developments), with uprated cam, not sure on spec yet. large plenum, smooth bore induction kit. head from wildcat engineering (stage 1 i think)
http://www.roverv8engine.co.uk/index2.htm
just wondering maybe guess BHP or performance ie compared to 450 chim or 500 chim
thanks in advance
Brett
Well being in a very similar boat, I have had a lot of time to consider the same question. Clearly it all depends hugely on the details, particularly the exact specs of the heads, cam etc and also what AFM - and therefore what ECU you are going to use (the 5AM is a major limitation and there would be little point in having a great breathing top end and making it inhale through a straw). Anyway to get to the point, and notwithstanding all of the unknowns and variables I would be quite pleased with a flywheel output of 320-330 with a 6500 rpm limit. I think that is acheievable without going over the top. Check out my webshots profile (member name - tvr450)for pics of all the key work and mods i have done in the TVR engine mods album.
Edited by Tahiti450 on Tuesday 2nd August 23:51
You can get 300 from a 4.6 with a decent cam and some worked Rover/TVR/Merlin heads and a few other mods, but you can get a lot more if you use alternative cylinder heads.
The Wildcat stage 1 which uses standard intake and pushrod arrangement flows 217 cfm out of the box... you can almost get this with modified 64 Buick 300 heads with Buick V-6 stage 1 valves and porting...
The Wildcat stage II heads flow 250 cfm out of the box
The new TA head castings (based on the successful Buick V6 design)out of the box are reportedly flowing 275cfm.
The prototype "test" comp versions of these heads that TA sent to Australia that are being trialled by TRS here in Adelaide are flowing 300 cfm.
Their 5 litre Rover-engined ex UK Tuscan TVR N/A race car is putting out 550hp with these heads, and it's only the start of their race program.
TA are in the process of doing a production run of 25 sets and have stated that they will be selling them to the public for around US$2795.00 assembled Part # TA 2150 OR $1500 bare castings.
TA claim they have developed these heads specifically for the Rover market, although because of its ancestry they will no doubt also have Buick 215, 300, 340 and P76 applications.
http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-172229....
The Wildcat stage 1 which uses standard intake and pushrod arrangement flows 217 cfm out of the box... you can almost get this with modified 64 Buick 300 heads with Buick V-6 stage 1 valves and porting...
The Wildcat stage II heads flow 250 cfm out of the box
The new TA head castings (based on the successful Buick V6 design)out of the box are reportedly flowing 275cfm.
The prototype "test" comp versions of these heads that TA sent to Australia that are being trialled by TRS here in Adelaide are flowing 300 cfm.
Their 5 litre Rover-engined ex UK Tuscan TVR N/A race car is putting out 550hp with these heads, and it's only the start of their race program.
TA are in the process of doing a production run of 25 sets and have stated that they will be selling them to the public for around US$2795.00 assembled Part # TA 2150 OR $1500 bare castings.
TA claim they have developed these heads specifically for the Rover market, although because of its ancestry they will no doubt also have Buick 215, 300, 340 and P76 applications.
http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-172229....
V8FROG said:
how about a 4.6 from a range rover HSE????what can u do to it to make it more TVR friendly???i live in kl malaysia and here no 4.5 or 5litres around but can get the 4.6 HSE..tks guys
The chimaera 450 engine IS basically the RR 4.6 engine (all 10 bolt heads and crossbolted), with mods by TVR Power. TVR only used the implication of 4.5 litres with the 450 badge / name for ?commercial reasons, its swept capacity is 4554cc so nominally making it more 4.6 than 4.5 but only just! Interestingly 4554 cc is almost exactly 1 gallon (4546cc), making each cylinders capacity approximately 1 pint!! :-)Edited by Tahiti450 on Tuesday 9th August 21:59
haircutmike said:
I thought the 4.5's were slightly different capacity to the 4.6?
I'm too lazy to goooogle!
AFAIK there were some 4.5 litre engines built by TVR around 92/93 and I think this was the tuscan racer engine using an 80mm stroke giving 4441cc (rather than the 82 of the stock 4.6 in the chimaera 450) but this was a low volume excercise for the racing programme. It may be that some of these have ended up in road cars of course. (I expect that these are all pre-serp engines with short nose cranks). The bottom line is that all the production chimaera 450s were fitted with the RR production 4.6 engine with tweaks from TVR. I'm too lazy to goooogle!
i know i asked that before but i never really get the answers i was looking for.i live in malaysia and here we dont much V8 engines around.but still can find some 4.6 HSE.so was wondering what will it take to swap it to my 400 year 2001.and lets say get around 250hp to 280hp.those engines here are pretty cheap as nobody use them.tks for ur help guys!!
Tahiti450 said:
The chimaera 450 engine IS basically the RR 4.6 engine (all 10 bolt heads and crossbolted), with mods by TVR Power. TVR only used the implication of 4.5 litres with the 450 badge / name for ?commercial reasons, its swept capacity is 4554cc so nominally making it more 4.6 than 4.5 but only just! Interestingly 4554 cc is almost exactly 1 gallon (4546cc), making each cylinders capacity approximately 1 pint!! :-)
Edited by Tahiti450 on Tuesday 9th August 21:59
debaron said:
You should see around 310 BHP with that sort of setup but to really let all those horses loose you wan to be running a third party ECU and do away with the dizzy so spark timing and fueling can be set more accurately. I'd guess 320/330 if you go that way.
What he said^^^^ mines 320 on a lazy map so 330`s do able.V8FROG said:
Well i ges the answer is yes the 4.6 RR engine will be a pretty easy swap but bear in mind that the TVR units WERE omdified to varying degrees, with a minimum of a uprated cam, vernier timing sprocket, and most had some port profiling and some had big valve heads (mine had 42mm inlets and 38m exhausts) which AFAIK i dont think you will find in any RR. So bottom line is that the RR engine would probably give more low and and mid range grunt but unlikely to make a lot more top end power (depending on what spec 4 litre you start with of course....). Other benfits of course are the X-bolted bottom end, serpentine front end, decent oil pump, large crank journals, which make the engine significantly more durable -on the other hand of course there is always the dreaded leaking liner problem that seems to have been a problem with all the 94mm bore RV8s. Whats the problem with your current engine and is it a serpentine / large journal engine already?The 4.6 Range Rover motor can be used successfully as the basis of a TVR motor. As it comes out of the Range Rover, the sump and front cover will have to be changed. This is because the engine has a very short front cover, and picks up oil through the sump which is very deep.
Should you wish, you can actually use the Lucas-Sagem GEMS management system that comes with the engine. There are many benefits to using it, not the least of which is that it is self-mapping for fuel and ignition so no rolling road required. It is actually vastly more advanced than any of the after-market systems are today, and it was designed over 18 years ago.
The system is very easy to maintain, and is fully OBD-II compliant so fault code reading and data logging tools are easily and cheaply available. It is also the most reliable engine management system that I have ever come across.
Strangely the TVR fraternity have completely overlooked this system, although the engine has to be built with GEMS installation in mind so it's not a simple retro-fit. There are plenty of these installations in Land Rover Defender and competition vehicles, and even in light aircraft! However there are none in any TVRs that I know of.
TVR actually built two vehicles using this system since it is fully Euro Three emissions compliant, but Land Rover would only give them the 4.0 Litre tune. I have personally seen one of these vehicles, which lives in Switzerland. Of course it is fully type-approved for this engine too, so ticks all the legal boxes.
Just a thought anyway. If you want more information about using one of these engines then please PM me.
Should you wish, you can actually use the Lucas-Sagem GEMS management system that comes with the engine. There are many benefits to using it, not the least of which is that it is self-mapping for fuel and ignition so no rolling road required. It is actually vastly more advanced than any of the after-market systems are today, and it was designed over 18 years ago.
The system is very easy to maintain, and is fully OBD-II compliant so fault code reading and data logging tools are easily and cheaply available. It is also the most reliable engine management system that I have ever come across.
Strangely the TVR fraternity have completely overlooked this system, although the engine has to be built with GEMS installation in mind so it's not a simple retro-fit. There are plenty of these installations in Land Rover Defender and competition vehicles, and even in light aircraft! However there are none in any TVRs that I know of.
TVR actually built two vehicles using this system since it is fully Euro Three emissions compliant, but Land Rover would only give them the 4.0 Litre tune. I have personally seen one of these vehicles, which lives in Switzerland. Of course it is fully type-approved for this engine too, so ticks all the legal boxes.
Just a thought anyway. If you want more information about using one of these engines then please PM me.
tks for ur replies guys.(mark himself answering my questions wow)!!!nothing is wrong with my engine just looking to get a bit more.here no much access on parts.so doing with what i can..my car is pretty fast for what mods it has.but an extra 50hp will do his justice.i wdont want people to think a TVR is slow.no much around anyway but have to preserve the reputation of being a monster,specially after the mods i did to my exhaust.i think with 300hp per ton i ll be more than happy.mhmh i thought the RR 4.6 will be an easy fit but still have to mod a few things right???now my 400 has only exhaust,no cats,38mm carbon trumpets and ACT induction ,K&N filter and thats all for now.was planning MC1 cam and megasquirt(only fueling).
Tahiti450 said:
Well i ges the answer is yes the 4.6 RR engine will be a pretty easy swap but bear in mind that the TVR units WERE omdified to varying degrees, with a minimum of a uprated cam, vernier timing sprocket, and most had some port profiling and some had big valve heads (mine had 42mm inlets and 38m exhausts) which AFAIK i dont think you will find in any RR. So bottom line is that the RR engine would probably give more low and and mid range grunt but unlikely to make a lot more top end power (depending on what spec 4 litre you start with of course....). Other benfits of course are the X-bolted bottom end, serpentine front end, decent oil pump, large crank journals, which make the engine significantly more durable -on the other hand of course there is always the dreaded leaking liner problem that seems to have been a problem with all the 94mm bore RV8s. Whats the problem with your current engine and is it a serpentine / large journal engine already?
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