Discussion
Hi Guys,
I'm in the market for a Chim, one of the later facelift ones - 1998 onward probably.
I have a bit of a dilema - for the same price, there are 2 exaples I have seen, and like.
One is a 400 with low mileage (20k).
One is a 450 with higher milage (37k).
Both are 1998s, in colours I like.
The 450 is a fair bit further away than the 400 though, but I guess I'm willing to travel if its worth it.
Anyway - question is - if I went for the clean, low mileage 400 - would I regret it?
Is there a big jump in power to the 450?
Is it useable power? etc?
Cheers,
Malc
I'm in the market for a Chim, one of the later facelift ones - 1998 onward probably.
I have a bit of a dilema - for the same price, there are 2 exaples I have seen, and like.
One is a 400 with low mileage (20k).
One is a 450 with higher milage (37k).
Both are 1998s, in colours I like.
The 450 is a fair bit further away than the 400 though, but I guess I'm willing to travel if its worth it.
Anyway - question is - if I went for the clean, low mileage 400 - would I regret it?
Is there a big jump in power to the 450?
Is it useable power? etc?
Cheers,
Malc
I never drove them back to back, and although I never found my 1993 4.0 slow I did on occasion find myself having to try a little bit harder than anticipated to pull away from a hard charging hot hatch.
I didn't find I had the same problem in the 450, in fact the only time I felt wanting for more power was when I got smoked by a 996GT3RS on the way back from Le Mans. I bought a Tuscan S to help me get over this
I didn't find I had the same problem in the 450, in fact the only time I felt wanting for more power was when I got smoked by a 996GT3RS on the way back from Le Mans. I bought a Tuscan S to help me get over this
I have a 400 but it would have to be a bloody good 400 with mods to keep up with a good 450 IMHO,if I had a choice go look at the 450 if its in the right condition and ticks all the right boxes Chassis etc etc, you will only want to mod the 400 later if you drive quick 
then again if you drive quick you will probably want to mod the 450 too 
then again if you drive quick you will probably want to mod the 450 too Simon says said:
I have a 400 but it would have to be a bloody good 400 with mods to keep up with a good 450 IMHO,if I had a choice go look at the 450 if its in the right condition and ticks all the right boxes Chassis etc etc, you will only want to mod the 400 later if you drive quick then again if you drive quick you will probably want to mod the 450 too
That is the case with all cars, I find that with the Cerbera too now it's much quicker than the chim but i could always do with more. Where do you draw the line. then again if you drive quick you will probably want to mod the 450 too Ah when you get jailed
Thanks for that info guys.
Like I said - they are the same kinda price, just different mileages:
450:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3086780.htm
450:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3132565.htm
400:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3065709.htm
I'd guess around £10,000 - £10,500 mark is what they're after.
Being from Edinburgh the 400 is only 45mins drive away, the others are 2 - 3 hours.
But like I said, I'd be happy to travel if its worth it for a 4.5.
P.S. (And I know this will probably sounds a little stupid) but out of interest more than anything - is there much difference MPG wise?
Like I said - they are the same kinda price, just different mileages:
450:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3086780.htm
450:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3132565.htm
400:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3065709.htm
I'd guess around £10,000 - £10,500 mark is what they're after.
Being from Edinburgh the 400 is only 45mins drive away, the others are 2 - 3 hours.
But like I said, I'd be happy to travel if its worth it for a 4.5.
P.S. (And I know this will probably sounds a little stupid) but out of interest more than anything - is there much difference MPG wise?
Edited by Malcster on Tuesday 16th August 12:40
I went out looking for a decent 450 but couldn't find one at the time so ended up buying an late good 400, 9 years later I have not regretted it once.
I decided against a 500 from the start, drove several 400/450s and not wishing to get into a forum bun fight over this comment I found the 400 a much smoother engine than the 450. Others I have driven/been in since have been the same.
I don't do track days so in the real world unless you are intent on losing your license either car would be great to own.
I decided against a 500 from the start, drove several 400/450s and not wishing to get into a forum bun fight over this comment I found the 400 a much smoother engine than the 450. Others I have driven/been in since have been the same.
I don't do track days so in the real world unless you are intent on losing your license either car would be great to own.
It all comes down to condition (and a bit of luck). Mileage should be a secondary consideration at best really.
The 450 is perhaps closer to the mileage where an average one will start to need a few bits, but the lower mileage car is by no means immune to this. Neither are exatcly high mileage and it's entirely possible that the higher mileage car has had bits replaced or upgraded that the low mileage car has not.
Both the 400 and 450 are thought to be fundamentally pretty reliable and there's not a huge difference in economy as far as I can tell from the forum chatter. The 450 will be worth more for a given age and condition and it gives a bit more oomph, so I'd go for that one if all other things are equal.
It's a long time since I've driven a 400, but you can certainly tell the difference between a standard 450 and a 500, so I can imagine you'd feel the extra urge if you went for the 4.5.
The 450 is perhaps closer to the mileage where an average one will start to need a few bits, but the lower mileage car is by no means immune to this. Neither are exatcly high mileage and it's entirely possible that the higher mileage car has had bits replaced or upgraded that the low mileage car has not.
Both the 400 and 450 are thought to be fundamentally pretty reliable and there's not a huge difference in economy as far as I can tell from the forum chatter. The 450 will be worth more for a given age and condition and it gives a bit more oomph, so I'd go for that one if all other things are equal.
It's a long time since I've driven a 400, but you can certainly tell the difference between a standard 450 and a 500, so I can imagine you'd feel the extra urge if you went for the 4.5.
Ribol said:
I went out looking for a decent 450 but couldn't find one at the time so ended up buying an late good 400, 9 years later I have not regretted it once.
I decided against a 500 from the start, drove several 400/450s and not wishing to get into a forum bun fight over this comment I found the 400 a much smoother engine than the 450. Others I have driven/been in since have been the same.
I don't do track days so in the real world unless you are intent on losing your license either car would be great to own.
Well you would say that .............. old timer I decided against a 500 from the start, drove several 400/450s and not wishing to get into a forum bun fight over this comment I found the 400 a much smoother engine than the 450. Others I have driven/been in since have been the same.
I don't do track days so in the real world unless you are intent on losing your license either car would be great to own.
same here though Ivan i found the smaller engines smother especially over the TVR built 500's in fact the smoothest silkiest RV8 I have driven was an early pre serp Chim "250" that motor was an absolute gem in fact the guy who owns it is on these very forums 
made my over cammed 400 seem like it was running on 6 cylinders low down 
Semantics and allegedly a handful of late 500s aside, the 450 is the only one that's built from a later 4.0/4.6 Land Rover engine rather than the earlier 3.9(/4.2). It's a stronger engine and arguably the best building block if you want more performance later on. Also the power and torque and the way it's produced makes the most balanced overall package with the rest of the car IMO.
The 4.0 (which is really a 3.9 Land Rover engine, which incidentally is the exact same capacity as the later LR 4.0... are you still there?
) is a sweet little thing with one limitation - beyond bolting 15 or so bhp on to it with induction mods, bar supercharging there's nowt much you can do without tearing comprehensively into the engine. As the pistons are flat topped, you can't run the 'big' camshafts needed to make extensive head porting etc. worthwhile. For 90% of drivers, it was and is wholly sufficient but if you're into picking fights with modern performance cars rather than just enjoy the car for what it is (and in fairness what it isn't, is slow 
) you will end up wishing you bought a bigger-engined version - unless and until you find 5 large for a supercharger kit & stuff.
The 4.0 (which is really a 3.9 Land Rover engine, which incidentally is the exact same capacity as the later LR 4.0... are you still there?
) is a sweet little thing with one limitation - beyond bolting 15 or so bhp on to it with induction mods, bar supercharging there's nowt much you can do without tearing comprehensively into the engine. As the pistons are flat topped, you can't run the 'big' camshafts needed to make extensive head porting etc. worthwhile. For 90% of drivers, it was and is wholly sufficient but if you're into picking fights with modern performance cars rather than just enjoy the car for what it is (and in fairness what it isn't, is slow ) you will end up wishing you bought a bigger-engined version - unless and until you find 5 large for a supercharger kit & stuff. IMHO, the 450 is the best (I would say that though!!)
I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
FastRich said:
IMHO, the 450 is the best (I would say that though!!)
I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
Very wise words I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
FastRich said:
IMHO, the 450 is the best (I would say that though!!)
I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
Wise words.I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
Plus there's also an element of luck. I forget how many miles my 500 had done when it went pop, but it was still under 30,000. When we got the engine apart it looked clean enough to substantiate the mileage and servicing claims, and then we found the cause... There was a void in the crankshaft casting where the crack had originally started from. It was a pure manufacturing defect that could have been lurking in the cleanest last of the line 500 or the earliest high miler. The moral of the story? Do your best to ensure you find one in good condition and then keep a contingency fund back for anything you didn't or couldn't have found.
FastRich said:
IMHO, the 450 is the best (I would say that though!!)
I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
Shhh! There'll be non left when I start looking...I'd just about deceided that a 450 is the sweet spot for me and this thread has confirmed that (plus condition, condition, condition which I'm already well aware of now).I have worked at 2 TVR main dealers turned specialists - Fernhurst TVR and Racing Green Cars. The 450's always seemed to be where the 'sensible' money goes as they give the best blend of performance and reliability.
But, when buying a Rover V8 TVR, forget mileage, colour and to a certain extent the engine size, its all about condition, condition, condition. I'd rather have an excellent 80,000 mile car than a patchy 20k car. I would recommend you looking at both cars (at least) before making the decision to part with your cash.
FastRich said:
Contingency fund? Hmmm...that'll be the credit card then - not sure the Mrs could cope with foregoing a new kitchen for the car and then an engagement ring for repairs!!! I'd be single...not a bad idea actually, it'll make room for another toy!!
Thankfully I did the kitchen last year and after 14 years I think I've got away without getting married (I tell my son that me and his mum are 'mortgaged' rather than married ).Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff