Head Gasket?

[Sarnian]

Hi all,

Been a long time (even forgot my password.

Well, it had to happen, something big has gone wrong with the car, so I've been told.

Took the car out for a spin over the weekend (showing off to a friend). and water started coming out of the expansion tank at the front with much the same sound effects of a steam engine (rythmic puffs).

Getting the car home was easy but further investigations were required. when I refill the rad and start the engine (without putting the cap back on the water intake, after a few minutes I get the steam engine effects and water pours out of the expansion tank in bursts.

I have been confidently told by an ex BMW machanic that the head gaskets gone and it will need to be taken apart and ground down (if warped), and it will be very expensive.

Apart from crapping myself, what do you guys think?

The car is a '97 Chimaera 500.

Cheers

Sarnian

[loo p]

Sounds strange.

Other symptoms could include:

Steam coming from the exhaust
Oil in the water
Excessive water consumption

Good luck - sounds like something else to me though......(but I'm not an expert)

[Sarnian]

There was a smell of antifreeze coming from the exhaust..

[raceboy]

I presume you've still got a fan belt

3 months ago I had the steam engine under the bonnet effect, are you getting clouds of steam out the exhausts as well?
If so if your lucky it's the head gasket, I wasn't I'd cracked a piston liner which makes a head gasket bill look like a bargin

[shpub]

If it is and it does sound it, don't drive it anymore as this could make matters worse like new cylinder heads worse. GEt it relayed to a specialist.

It is worth getting the rest of the engine chceked over while in bits as the bulk of the cost is labour and gaskets and new cylinder head bolts. Tower View did mine and found the broken rocker arms as seen in the bible so I ended up with a new cam. The bible also has piccies of the gaskets so that you can see where they fail. Mine dumped the coolent into the oil!

The head gasket replacement cost around £6-700. If you have air con that will need pressurising afterwards as it has to be disconnected. Again covered in the bible.

Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk

[M@H]

Sarnian said:

There was a smell of antifreeze coming from the exhaust..

I'd say that was conclusive.. bad luck.

[Sarnian]

Thanks guys, the actual cost has made me feel a bit better as I was thinking in the region of a couple of grand for the repairs.

I've got a friend who has rebuilt a couple of Jags and has dealt with Rover v8's in the past, I've just contacted him and pulled in a couple of favours. He will be coming down and seeing if he can repair it himself.

Being none mechanical myself, he has asked me to remove all the sparkplugs (keeping them in order) and to turn the engine over. I need to identify which (if any) cylinders have water in, and to put the sparkplugs back afterwards (must remember), so I might be leaving more posts online asking what particular pipe thingy goes where.

Computers are much easier to deal with.... but not as much fun.

Sarnian

[Sarnian]

Hi Folks,

My friend has just stripped the engine right down and has found no problems with the engine, infact he thought the seals were near on perfect (good old Rover V8).

Although, when he removed the head bolts, he assumed they would be tightened to about 60Lbs, but he ended up having to bring down a colleague and improvise removing the bolts, he estimated the torque was way in excess of 400lbs (even I thought that was a bit Tight).

He is going to rebuild the engine at the weekend and has asked for me to get a details and items which I know you guys would know off hte top of your heads.

What is the <b>HEAD BOLT TORQUE SETTING </b>

and what is the <b>ROCKER SHAFT TORQUE SETTING</b>

Also the items he needs are:

<b>Full engine gasket set

Oil pressure switch

Oil filter

Full set of head bolts (both sides) </b>

Where would be the best place to get these, as I live near Loughborough, and would you think they are 'off the shelf' items.

Sorry, if these seem lame questions but I love the car, but haven't got a clue about engines, and in my experience it's always best to go on recommendations.

Cheers all

Sarnian

BTW - he is going to start on looking at the cooling system after finishing the rebuild and is going to flush it all out. Do you guys have any further iteas where to look?


>> Edited by Sarnian on Wednesday 8th September 20:15

[2 sheds]

places for engine parts:
V8 Developments, Spalding 01775 750000
John Eales nr Lutterworth 01455 202909
RPI Engineering, Norwich 01603 891209
They will supply everything you need and torque settings

Tim

[Boosted Ls1]

No way was the torque 400 lbs, they must have been well stuck that's all

Rocker posts are 30 lbs/ft and head bolts are 65/70 lbs/ft.

I've just done this work to a chimeara. Make sure your friend gets the same type of gasket as you already have for the heads, ie if composite buy a composite, if tin, buy tin. Also check the lifter preloads are within .020" to .060" and buy a shim kit if you need it. The preloads will probably be ok.

I use Real Steel at Uxbridge for odds and sods, those parts always arrive the next day. You don't need new head bolts as they aren't TTY. Sure replace them if the car has done plenty of miles. Also, don't bother replacing the smaller outer bolts nearer to the exhaust headers, they aren't needed.

[Sarnian]

Hi Boosted,

Thanks for the info and I will pass it onto my mechanic friend tomorrow.

He's a real nut for cars and has rebuilt a couple of jags from scratch. From what I can gather he broke a couple of whatever impact tools you use, and ended up getting a friend and an iron girder to loosen them all.

One too tight maybe, but all of them!!! I think there must have been a very cheesed off mechanic in Blackpool on the day my car was being built, and took his anger out on those bolts...LOL.

He is REALLY hacked off with not finding anything wrong so far, but is also thoroughly enjoying himself. His childred though, have made me famous in his neighborhood as the man who blew up a TVR.. HOW UNKIND

[Sarnian]

Sorry 2 shed, thanks also for the details

[Boosted Ls1]

I don't want to worry you but if there was nothing apparantly wrong with the gaskets, get him to make a close inspection of the block casting around the cylinder liners. Do the same for the cylinder head around the chamber. He should be looking for any signs of porosity. Probably won't find anything wrong but check all the same

[2 sheds]

Unfortunatley cracked liners are not that uncommon, hopefully not in your case.
Tim

[19560]

Sarnian said:

One too tight maybe, but all of them!!

Most likely to be bimetalic corrosion as LS1 suggested. Alloy head and block, steel bolts and you've had a water leak which has recenly become worse and you've now spotted it.

[Sarnian]

Hi all,

I've spoken to my friend. What he has checked is the plugs for any white powder builtup, and was looking for whitening of the tops of the pistonheads which would indicate cracked sleave (don't quote me as he was talking over the phone, and I have a memory like a sieve), he couldn't see any signs of porosity anywhere.

Any ideas, as when I mentioned cracked sleeves I could actual visualise him falling off his chair and requiring medical attention, and when he told me the cost so did I, it would probably be cheaper to part ex the engine.

Any ideas of what else to look for.

The main thing that happened was (sorry for going over it again)steam came pouring out of the radiator filler in a pumping action, and my friend has not found any oil residue in the water tank, or and water evidence in the oil, and he seems to think the gaskets are fine.

Has anybody experienced the same thing. He a VERY experienced mechanic, and is frustrated about not finding anything wrong so far.

[Boosted Ls1]

Sarnian said:

Hi all, I've spoken to my friend. What he has checked is the plugs for any white powder builtup, and was looking for whitening of the tops of the pistonheads which would indicate cracked sleave (don't quote me as he was talking over the phone, and I have a memory like a sieve), he couldn't see any signs of porosity anywhere. Any ideas, as when I mentioned cracked sleeves I could actual visualise him falling off his chair and requiring medical attention, and when he told me the cost so did I, it would probably be cheaper to part ex the engine. Any ideas of what else to look for. The main thing that happened was (sorry for going over it again)steam came pouring out of the radiator filler in a pumping action, and my friend has not found any oil residue in the water tank, or and water evidence in the oil, and he seems to think the gaskets are fine. Has anybody experienced the same thing. He a VERY experienced mechanic, and is frustrated about not finding anything wrong so far.

You didn't overfill the header tank before hand did you? It's been done before and I've done it How about checking the gaskets where they seal the water passage from the block to the head?

[Sarnian]

Hi

No, the over filling is out of the question as it started happening 2 months after the service and I had not topped up the rad in between.

As for the other, I don't think so, but thats my opinion, I'd have to speak to my mate.

I have to say I've learnt more about engines in the last few days than I've ever know, give me a computer, I can strip that down.....LOL

[raceboy]

Mine had a bit of an engine issue recently, the simptoms were 'head gasket' but when it was stripped down it turned out to be cracked piston liners
Lots of stream out the expansion tank, even more out the exhaust pipes, and quite a bit out my ears at the bill