How mechanical do I have to be?
Discussion
I'm looking at a Chim at TrackVRoad and am really quite tempted. They seem to be a lot of car for not a lot of money and great fun - but:
I want to use the car sometimes on the 30 mile round trip commute plus the odd longer round trip of about 600 miles.
Now I know sweet FA about engines or electrics etc. Water, oil and fuel are about my limit to be honest - so:
Can I just buy a good one with some warranty and maybe join a recovery company or do you still need some knowledge for the longer trips, just in case something goes horribly wrong? Can any reasonable garage / recovery man get you up and running again?
I want to use the car sometimes on the 30 mile round trip commute plus the odd longer round trip of about 600 miles.
Now I know sweet FA about engines or electrics etc. Water, oil and fuel are about my limit to be honest - so:
Can I just buy a good one with some warranty and maybe join a recovery company or do you still need some knowledge for the longer trips, just in case something goes horribly wrong? Can any reasonable garage / recovery man get you up and running again?
I was asking the same question as you around a year ago, funnily enough in TrackVroad. I'm not clueless but lack experience in pulling cars apart but went ahead anyway and our car has been a fantastic addition to the family. Ian, their engineer, is both extremely knowledgable and very helpful and between him, you, and if all else fails the RAC you'll always get home. I'm taking our old girl on a long tour of a very strange unchartered land ('The South') on Monday and have no worries that I'll never see my home again! Mind you, it is 'The South'...Do it, you most definitely won't regret it 
There will be a list of 'yes and no's' coming a long soon from members with a lot more knowledge than me, but my 2p worth I would recommend having some knowledge of mechanics. Most track or racing will stress parts of the car and these will break, some can be minor others are a tow home... TVR's are no different to any other older car they need a constant TLC to keep them in good running order. If you do not do preventive maintenance then the car will spend more time on the back of a truck or in the garage, to me that is not having fun.
If it is only fun you want and none of the spanner work make sure you have good funds and high limit on the credit car, but saying that if you had these you would not be looking at a TVR.
Car's are like girls/women,
Girls - Just for fun, will cost you and kill the credit card.
Woman - Give her constant TLC, help with preventive maintenance, the fun will be there and she will last for years.
Now I have a target on my back I wait for the bullets.
If it is only fun you want and none of the spanner work make sure you have good funds and high limit on the credit car, but saying that if you had these you would not be looking at a TVR.
Car's are like girls/women,
Girls - Just for fun, will cost you and kill the credit card.
Woman - Give her constant TLC, help with preventive maintenance, the fun will be there and she will last for years.
Now I have a target on my back I wait for the bullets.
The official service intervals are 6 months or 6000 miles. (which ever comes first, not last)
If you follow the manufacturer's recommended services, carried out by an experienced TVR mechanic, chances are (and experience tells me), you would have no more or less trouble than most any other car, assuming you followed their recommended service schedule.
The services, are regularly quoted at around £350 and £480, for 6k and 12k miles, by non-mainstream garages.
Chances are that even if you serviced at whichever interval came second, (but at least once per year), you would enjoy similar reliability.
Doing your own work is very much part of classic / vintage car ownership for a lot of people.
It is however a matter of choice, (and maybe budget), not a prerequisite
I have managed to spend very little time getting greasy, and much more time driving.
Partly because driving is more fun (for me), partly because my work schedule fills my days and often my weekends, and partly because I fully recognise the benefit of having an expert do the work right, first time.
ETA
Ahh yes, as KateV8 says, an RAC card for the bad days. Bad days can happen to anyone in any car.
If you follow the manufacturer's recommended services, carried out by an experienced TVR mechanic, chances are (and experience tells me), you would have no more or less trouble than most any other car, assuming you followed their recommended service schedule.
The services, are regularly quoted at around £350 and £480, for 6k and 12k miles, by non-mainstream garages.
Chances are that even if you serviced at whichever interval came second, (but at least once per year), you would enjoy similar reliability.
Doing your own work is very much part of classic / vintage car ownership for a lot of people.
It is however a matter of choice, (and maybe budget), not a prerequisite
I have managed to spend very little time getting greasy, and much more time driving.
Partly because driving is more fun (for me), partly because my work schedule fills my days and often my weekends, and partly because I fully recognise the benefit of having an expert do the work right, first time.
ETA
Ahh yes, as KateV8 says, an RAC card for the bad days. Bad days can happen to anyone in any car.
Edited by Goaty Bill on Saturday 29th September 10:36
I think once you get one, you will more than likely start to have a play about with the mechanics if you get the normal urge to modify/improve/fix. The good thing is they are quite easy to work on, not having all the complications of most modern day cars. I know a few people who knew nothing about mechanics prior to getting a weekend car and now they really enjoy working on it as it's quite rewarding
brett84 said:
I think once you get one, you will more than likely start to have a play about with the mechanics if you get the normal urge to modify/improve/fix. The good thing is they are quite easy to work on, not having all the complications of most modern day cars. I know a few people who knew nothing about mechanics prior to getting a weekend car and now they really enjoy working on it as it's quite rewarding
This is exactly what I have found. I had done practically nothing mechanical on any of my cars before having my chim. As mentioned they are pretty simple and with a bit of reading up (and help from this forum) you should be able to do most things. I treat is as a bit of a hobby (and save a bit of money)The basic rules of engagement when buying & running a Chimaera are exactly the same for any car:
1) Buy the very best one you can afford
2) Inspect it carefully, or pay a professional/specialist to inspect it for you
3) Do not skimp on maintenance, full stop
4) If you're not confident to do the work yourself, make sure you trust who you pay to do it for you, and they that are familiar with the breed
5) Keep a reasonable slush fund in hand should a big bill hit you
Car maintenance is a race against the inevitable failure of many components, the trick is to accept this fact & repair or replace the component before it fails leaving you stranded on the side of the road.
There are three proven methods to intercept imminent failure of a component.
1) Inspect the car thoroughly & frequently, the greater the skill & experience of the technician doing the inspection, the greater the chances are of him finding a problem before it leaves you on the side of the road
2) Understand the breed, it's typical faults, and the life cycle of it's components
3) Listen to your car, it may be trying to tell you something. That little squeak, rattle occasional misfire or one-off failure to start could be the precursor to an intermittent breakdown, ignore these warnings at your peril. Get it investigated and fixed before the car lets you down at the most inconvenient moment.
This is why (if you are not a hands on type of owner) you need a trusted TVR specialist on your side, he will work out cheaper in the end because he's done all the jobs before and learnt how to do them better & faster.
"All cars degrade over time, importantly the degradation accelerates as the car gets older, so its essential to ramp up your maintenance schedule and attention to detail in response to this"
"As cars get older they get cheaper, sadly this means instead of accelerating the maintenance people neglect it just at the point the car needs it most"
THIS IS A FATAL SITUATION FOR THE FUTURE RELIABILITY OF ANY MACHINE
With a TVR Chimaera there are a few additional things to keep in mind:
1) It's a low production artisan built car, you need to accept it's going to have a few idiosyncratic ways
2) The vast majority of Chimaeras are 14 - 17 years old now, that's getting on a bit for any car you are considering as a daily driver
3) It's still a high performance car, you wouldn't expect to run a Ferrari on a Ford Focus budget
Common or costly things that go wrong or may need doing on your Chimaera:
1) Chassis corrosion, if it's not been addressed already the chances are a chassis repair bill will be on the cards sometime soon: (budget £1500 - £3,500 to correct it properly)
2) Camshaft wear, premature camshaft wear is extremely common, camshafts can be worn out by 30,000 miles or less and you probable wont know to you check the engine's power on a rolling road. The Rover V8 has hydraulic tappets so it hides that camshaft wear extremely well: (£800 - £1500 depending on who does it)
3) The immobiliser, TVR did not wire it correctly, it is without doubt the most common cause of a "Non Starter". Get it replaced, repaired or bypassed if it's not been done already: (£600 for full replacement to £0.00 for a DIY bypass)
4) Suspension, if it's on it's original coil springs & dampers these will need replacing. Also carefully check all suspension bushes, the short life ARB drop links, the brackets they fit on the wishbones as these crack & all four wishbones themselves for corrosion: (£1000 for new dampers & springs fitted, £200 - £2,000 for bushes/wishbones ect)
5) Clutch, may last between 30-80,000 miles depending on driving style & model. If you are looking at a Chimaera with 60,0000 miles on it & there's no evidence of the clutch being replaced you need to budget for it: Typically £600 fitted
6) General electrical issues, most commonly just earthing issues but you need to find them, and that can cost if you outsource the work: (£ undefinable)
7) Don't overlook the roof if it needs replacing: Typically £600 fitted
8) Carpets, the originals fade: Typically £600 fitted
9) Leaks, common & will wreck the carpets and make the interior stink, budget for a few rubber seals, some silicone & to pay someone to track down where the water is coming in: Perhaps £150
10) Exhaust manifold gaskets, TVR put tightening the manifold bolts on the service schedule because they knew they loosen in time, neglect this and the gaskets will be quickly destroyed by the hot escaping exhaust gasses requiring manifold removal (which is a nasty job). Listen for a metallic ticking sound especially under load: Likely £150 per side minimum
Just like any other car you need to understand it's common costly issues and the point in the car's life they need addressing.
Take my list of the 10 key jobs/common issues and use it as reference, check off how many of them have been done or need doing on each car you look at.
The more of these 10 areas that have already been addressed by the vendor and/or former keepers, the more you will save and the better your Chimaera experience will be.
"As such you are far far better off paying a bit more for a car with these areas sorted, than buying the cheaper car and paying yourself to get them done."
Buy the right car, and keeping on top of the maintenance need not be costly at all, in fact a Chimaera can actually be run on that Ford Focus budget.
Select the wrong car however, and you could easily be faced with the following bills in your first year of ownership.
The sound of that V8 engine alone can easily have you falling in love and reaching for your wallet without properly completing all your checks, another reason to pay for an independent inspection.
Remember these cars are fibreglass so can look absolutely stunning to a casual observer, yet if you're not careful that stunning car with a fresh MoT could still very easily be hiding over £5,000 of work.
EXAMPLE: Lets say you pay £6,500 for a Chimaera thinking it's a bargain, then it costs you £4,000 in the first year to put it right.
Chances are you will start to wish you had coughed up the £9,500 for the car you viewed that had all the jobs done in the first place.
In this hypothetical scenario you would have saved £1000 & spent a lot more time driving and enjoying the car.
Ok so you may just get lucky & buy a great Chimaera for £6,500, but chances are it will need work because people aren't stupid & the vendor will know the market value of his car.
Ultimately a bit more money up front would very likely have given you a far better experience for less money.
BUT YOU STILL NEED TO DO YOUR CHECKS CAREFULLY, simply paying more for a car is no guarantee of it's superior condition, & always keep in mind that dealers are there to make a profit!
The best advice I can give would be the same with buying any car.
1) Do your research (this forum is a fantastic resource)
2) Inspect it thoroughly (or get a specialist to do this for you)
3) Check the history of the car very carefully (servicing, repairs, upgrades ect ect)
4) Judge the vendor as carefully as you check his car. First impressions count, listen to your inner voice when assessing the vendor, if it doesn't sound or feel right, WALK AWAY!
5) Remember dealers are there to make a profit, there's nothing wrong with that but you need to ask yourself if you're getting a genuine guarantee for your extra money. Or are you just paying someone else's mortgage for no benefit to yourself?
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ALWAYS REMEMBER...CAVEAT EMPTOR!
1) Buy the very best one you can afford
2) Inspect it carefully, or pay a professional/specialist to inspect it for you
3) Do not skimp on maintenance, full stop
4) If you're not confident to do the work yourself, make sure you trust who you pay to do it for you, and they that are familiar with the breed
5) Keep a reasonable slush fund in hand should a big bill hit you
Car maintenance is a race against the inevitable failure of many components, the trick is to accept this fact & repair or replace the component before it fails leaving you stranded on the side of the road.
There are three proven methods to intercept imminent failure of a component.
1) Inspect the car thoroughly & frequently, the greater the skill & experience of the technician doing the inspection, the greater the chances are of him finding a problem before it leaves you on the side of the road
2) Understand the breed, it's typical faults, and the life cycle of it's components
3) Listen to your car, it may be trying to tell you something. That little squeak, rattle occasional misfire or one-off failure to start could be the precursor to an intermittent breakdown, ignore these warnings at your peril. Get it investigated and fixed before the car lets you down at the most inconvenient moment.
This is why (if you are not a hands on type of owner) you need a trusted TVR specialist on your side, he will work out cheaper in the end because he's done all the jobs before and learnt how to do them better & faster.
"All cars degrade over time, importantly the degradation accelerates as the car gets older, so its essential to ramp up your maintenance schedule and attention to detail in response to this"
"As cars get older they get cheaper, sadly this means instead of accelerating the maintenance people neglect it just at the point the car needs it most"
THIS IS A FATAL SITUATION FOR THE FUTURE RELIABILITY OF ANY MACHINE
With a TVR Chimaera there are a few additional things to keep in mind:
1) It's a low production artisan built car, you need to accept it's going to have a few idiosyncratic ways
2) The vast majority of Chimaeras are 14 - 17 years old now, that's getting on a bit for any car you are considering as a daily driver
3) It's still a high performance car, you wouldn't expect to run a Ferrari on a Ford Focus budget
Common or costly things that go wrong or may need doing on your Chimaera:
1) Chassis corrosion, if it's not been addressed already the chances are a chassis repair bill will be on the cards sometime soon: (budget £1500 - £3,500 to correct it properly)
2) Camshaft wear, premature camshaft wear is extremely common, camshafts can be worn out by 30,000 miles or less and you probable wont know to you check the engine's power on a rolling road. The Rover V8 has hydraulic tappets so it hides that camshaft wear extremely well: (£800 - £1500 depending on who does it)
3) The immobiliser, TVR did not wire it correctly, it is without doubt the most common cause of a "Non Starter". Get it replaced, repaired or bypassed if it's not been done already: (£600 for full replacement to £0.00 for a DIY bypass)
4) Suspension, if it's on it's original coil springs & dampers these will need replacing. Also carefully check all suspension bushes, the short life ARB drop links, the brackets they fit on the wishbones as these crack & all four wishbones themselves for corrosion: (£1000 for new dampers & springs fitted, £200 - £2,000 for bushes/wishbones ect)
5) Clutch, may last between 30-80,000 miles depending on driving style & model. If you are looking at a Chimaera with 60,0000 miles on it & there's no evidence of the clutch being replaced you need to budget for it: Typically £600 fitted
6) General electrical issues, most commonly just earthing issues but you need to find them, and that can cost if you outsource the work: (£ undefinable)
7) Don't overlook the roof if it needs replacing: Typically £600 fitted
8) Carpets, the originals fade: Typically £600 fitted
9) Leaks, common & will wreck the carpets and make the interior stink, budget for a few rubber seals, some silicone & to pay someone to track down where the water is coming in: Perhaps £150
10) Exhaust manifold gaskets, TVR put tightening the manifold bolts on the service schedule because they knew they loosen in time, neglect this and the gaskets will be quickly destroyed by the hot escaping exhaust gasses requiring manifold removal (which is a nasty job). Listen for a metallic ticking sound especially under load: Likely £150 per side minimum
Just like any other car you need to understand it's common costly issues and the point in the car's life they need addressing.
Take my list of the 10 key jobs/common issues and use it as reference, check off how many of them have been done or need doing on each car you look at.
The more of these 10 areas that have already been addressed by the vendor and/or former keepers, the more you will save and the better your Chimaera experience will be.
"As such you are far far better off paying a bit more for a car with these areas sorted, than buying the cheaper car and paying yourself to get them done."
Buy the right car, and keeping on top of the maintenance need not be costly at all, in fact a Chimaera can actually be run on that Ford Focus budget.
Select the wrong car however, and you could easily be faced with the following bills in your first year of ownership.
- Chassis outriggers: £1500
- Immobiliser replacement: £600
- Clutch replacement: £600
- Replacement springs & dampers: £1000
- A few suspension bushes as required & new drop links: £300
- A couple of new wishbones: £300
- A few other wiring or trim niggles resolved: £200
- Replacement camshaft, followers & timing gear: £800
The sound of that V8 engine alone can easily have you falling in love and reaching for your wallet without properly completing all your checks, another reason to pay for an independent inspection.
Remember these cars are fibreglass so can look absolutely stunning to a casual observer, yet if you're not careful that stunning car with a fresh MoT could still very easily be hiding over £5,000 of work.
EXAMPLE: Lets say you pay £6,500 for a Chimaera thinking it's a bargain, then it costs you £4,000 in the first year to put it right.
Chances are you will start to wish you had coughed up the £9,500 for the car you viewed that had all the jobs done in the first place.
In this hypothetical scenario you would have saved £1000 & spent a lot more time driving and enjoying the car.
Ok so you may just get lucky & buy a great Chimaera for £6,500, but chances are it will need work because people aren't stupid & the vendor will know the market value of his car.
Ultimately a bit more money up front would very likely have given you a far better experience for less money.
BUT YOU STILL NEED TO DO YOUR CHECKS CAREFULLY, simply paying more for a car is no guarantee of it's superior condition, & always keep in mind that dealers are there to make a profit!
The best advice I can give would be the same with buying any car.
1) Do your research (this forum is a fantastic resource)
2) Inspect it thoroughly (or get a specialist to do this for you)
3) Check the history of the car very carefully (servicing, repairs, upgrades ect ect)
4) Judge the vendor as carefully as you check his car. First impressions count, listen to your inner voice when assessing the vendor, if it doesn't sound or feel right, WALK AWAY!
5) Remember dealers are there to make a profit, there's nothing wrong with that but you need to ask yourself if you're getting a genuine guarantee for your extra money. Or are you just paying someone else's mortgage for no benefit to yourself?
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY ALWAYS REMEMBER...CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Wednesday 3rd October 14:00
If yor going to break down, your going to break down. Even if you lug half a ton of tools and spares, fixing it by the side of the road without ramps etc is going to be difficult. Mine has only let me down once (although she did limp home eventually) and it was a £5 fuel pump relay.
I knew nothing about mechanicals when I bought the car, but that was one of the many reasons I wanted one so bad. Have a look at 'my garage' and see what I have managed to do to the car so far. The beauty of a 2nd car is that you can take it off the road for a month and take your time in putting things back together.
But I went in to ownership with my eyes open and accept that I will pay for a specialist service each year and for the jobs I am not brave enough to tackle.
The cost of some of the replacement parts is a joke. I replaced the whole front braking system for the same cost that my mate paid for some brake pads for his evo! Even the labour rates of £50 and hour are good compared to the £100+ some everyday car companies charge. People said I was crazy when I rolled up in a TVR, but in the last 3 years the car has lost around £1000 in depreciation, I had an Audi before it and I lost £10000 in the same period of time and I know which one is more fun to drive - I think Audi drivers are the crazy ones now!! Go for it.
I knew nothing about mechanicals when I bought the car, but that was one of the many reasons I wanted one so bad. Have a look at 'my garage' and see what I have managed to do to the car so far. The beauty of a 2nd car is that you can take it off the road for a month and take your time in putting things back together.
But I went in to ownership with my eyes open and accept that I will pay for a specialist service each year and for the jobs I am not brave enough to tackle.
The cost of some of the replacement parts is a joke. I replaced the whole front braking system for the same cost that my mate paid for some brake pads for his evo! Even the labour rates of £50 and hour are good compared to the £100+ some everyday car companies charge. People said I was crazy when I rolled up in a TVR, but in the last 3 years the car has lost around £1000 in depreciation, I had an Audi before it and I lost £10000 in the same period of time and I know which one is more fun to drive - I think Audi drivers are the crazy ones now!! Go for it.
This is a really interesting topic for me as I'm looking at buying a new car in the next few months- just started new job, etc. and have been looking at everything from z4's to Chims. Leaning towards the character noise and looks of the TVR but mindful of the potentially high costs of looking after such a car, especially at the initial purchase budget I'm looking at, which would probably be up to about £10k. So only slightly more leggy and ropy cars at that sort of price. I'm relatively OK with the spanners, having completely rebuilt the engine of my old car after a dodgy cam belt snapped after only a few thousand miles! But won't have much access to tools or space where I'm living at the moment. So was just trying to work out if its worth saving a bit longer and buying a more expensive, more pampered example, or just spending less and crossing my fingers and trying to deal with as many problems myself as I can.
BTW, excellent post above!
BTW, excellent post above!
at the moment £10k will get you a bloody great Chim!
I looked at loads of alternatives before getting mine - z4, s2000, BMW M varients, etc etc.
Mind was made up first drive I had in a Chim, the noise and low down torque instantly available just made me smile like a little girl at christmas. The other cars just got you places, maybe quicker and more efficient but driving them wasn't an occasion
I looked at loads of alternatives before getting mine - z4, s2000, BMW M varients, etc etc.
Mind was made up first drive I had in a Chim, the noise and low down torque instantly available just made me smile like a little girl at christmas. The other cars just got you places, maybe quicker and more efficient but driving them wasn't an occasion
Interesting topic , ok I have had 4 TVR's everyone well maintained and looked after . I wouldn't know one end of a spanner from another . But I know what's right and what's wrong. Have a car inspected by a knowledgable enthusiast . Then have it maintened by the same . It need not cost a fortune . But trust me as ownership goes . It does not get better !!! JFDI !
6 weeks into TVR ownership and I have to say just go ahead and get one, they are fantastic charecters and make you smile every time you turn that key, they make you do things on the road just because you can. I have owned a Z4 before and it went quick, never really made me want to go quick as you just kinda knew you could go quick and the experience was only different because the dial said it was. In the TVR.... devil sitting on your shoulder going "you know you want to".
I have had 1 let down from the car when I had a flat battery after not closing the boot and I budgeted £1k when I bought the car to take it to a specialist and say do what needs doing to it. From inspecting it I knew it needed a new clutch cylinder and some work on the diff, this was all done and 1000 miles later all I have is smiles every time I take it off the drive.
I have had 1 let down from the car when I had a flat battery after not closing the boot and I budgeted £1k when I bought the car to take it to a specialist and say do what needs doing to it. From inspecting it I knew it needed a new clutch cylinder and some work on the diff, this was all done and 1000 miles later all I have is smiles every time I take it off the drive.
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