oops.. TVR RIP, but at least I'm still here....
Discussion
I wrote off the chimaera this morning on the A59 just outside skipton.
Amazing, after five years of ownership and on a road i drive five days a week and on a dry day, she fishtailed after i overtook a van, spun and i ended up in a ditch.
No injuries, no-one else involved, but for goodness sake WTF???
the only thing i can think of is that the rear tyres (Toyos, replacing SO2s) were brand new (<50 miles), not scrubbed in and i didn't drive with due consideration of that fact. what worries me is that the safety margins must be thinner than i thought if new tyres makes such a difference.
Well done to TVR for making such a strong car for me to walk out of that.
as a matter of interest, if a car does start to fishtail (not under acceleration), is there anything you can do? (yes, horse/stable/bolted etc... no wisecracks pls).
R
>>> Edited by YUM on Monday 6th September 21:57
Amazing, after five years of ownership and on a road i drive five days a week and on a dry day, she fishtailed after i overtook a van, spun and i ended up in a ditch.
No injuries, no-one else involved, but for goodness sake WTF???
the only thing i can think of is that the rear tyres (Toyos, replacing SO2s) were brand new (<50 miles), not scrubbed in and i didn't drive with due consideration of that fact. what worries me is that the safety margins must be thinner than i thought if new tyres makes such a difference.
Well done to TVR for making such a strong car for me to walk out of that.
as a matter of interest, if a car does start to fishtail (not under acceleration), is there anything you can do? (yes, horse/stable/bolted etc... no wisecracks pls).
R
>>> Edited by YUM on Monday 6th September 21:57
Glad you are OK, which is the main thing. Not sure how many miles it takes to scrub tyres in myself either and would welcome any definative advice too.
AFAIK new tyres have a releasing compond in/on them that has to be taken through a heating/cooling cycle to finish the curing process, how long etc I haven't got a clue.
Harry
AFAIK new tyres have a releasing compond in/on them that has to be taken through a heating/cooling cycle to finish the curing process, how long etc I haven't got a clue.
Harry
After such a crash that is a pretty level headed post Yum. Glad you are OK.
It's all well and good knowing what to do but in the heat of the moment how many of us would actually do it? I like to think I'd keep calm enough and keep a level throttle, I'm no expert but I think backing off sure as hell would make it worse, dialing in a bit more power at the wrong time could be just as bad. Best wait for one of the racers to turn up.
It's all well and good knowing what to do but in the heat of the moment how many of us would actually do it? I like to think I'd keep calm enough and keep a level throttle, I'm no expert but I think backing off sure as hell would make it worse, dialing in a bit more power at the wrong time could be just as bad. Best wait for one of the racers to turn up.
Sorry to hear about your Chimaera, mine was written off in July so I know how it feels (I didn't even do it, my Brother was driving).
Glad your ok though! The car is only GRP and metal at the end of the day and you can have fun buying a new one with the insurance payout.
As for fish tailing, I've never had it in my TVR's but it used to happen in my MR2 a bit. The only thing I prayed for was everything gripping up again before a spin.
Yum, sorry to hear that, glad no-one was hurt.
I too suspect the new tyres had a large part to play. I remember when I first replaced the rears on mine, I went to pull out of the tyre fitters (low revs, dry road) and span the back wheels - felt like a right hooligan!
I took it VERY easy for a while after that. I wonder did the rears go over any painted white lines on the road when you were overtaking? That may have been enough to break traction if your tyres were still bedding in?
I'm sure someone once told me (may even have been on here) that if a powerful rear-driver fishtails, snapping the throttle shut (not saying that's what happened) can just further upset the balance of the car (esp considering the torque of a TVR RV8). Consequently, just dipping the cluth will allow the rear wheels to simply match the speed of the undriven front wheels and thus help regain stability. I must add, I'm no expert and (fortunately) haven't had to try this but it seems to make sense (to me!).
Hope the ins co look after you.
>> Edited by chumley on Monday 6th September 20:15
>> Edited by chumley on Monday 6th September 20:16
I too suspect the new tyres had a large part to play. I remember when I first replaced the rears on mine, I went to pull out of the tyre fitters (low revs, dry road) and span the back wheels - felt like a right hooligan!
I took it VERY easy for a while after that. I wonder did the rears go over any painted white lines on the road when you were overtaking? That may have been enough to break traction if your tyres were still bedding in?
I'm sure someone once told me (may even have been on here) that if a powerful rear-driver fishtails, snapping the throttle shut (not saying that's what happened) can just further upset the balance of the car (esp considering the torque of a TVR RV8). Consequently, just dipping the cluth will allow the rear wheels to simply match the speed of the undriven front wheels and thus help regain stability. I must add, I'm no expert and (fortunately) haven't had to try this but it seems to make sense (to me!).
Hope the ins co look after you.
>> Edited by chumley on Monday 6th September 20:15
>> Edited by chumley on Monday 6th September 20:16
chumley said:
I'm sure someone once told me (may even have been on here) that if a powerful rear-driver fishtails, snapping the throttle shut can just further upset the balance of the car (esp considering the torque of a TVR RV8). Consequently, just dipping the cluth will allow the rear wheels to simply match the speed of the undriven front wheels and thus help regain stability. I must add, I'm no expert and (fortunately) haven't had to try this but it seems to make sense (to me!).
Needless to say, if anyone knows that I'm way off on this point, please let us all know. I'd hate to be responsible for potentially putting myself and others in a ditch!
shnozz said:
having recently swapped my SO2s for Toyos I experienced very suspect handling for a good few hundred (500> miles. The back end felt as though it was going to overtake the front both in a straight line and around the bends.
bad luck.
Do they really take that long to bed in
, by my current wear rate that would make them 20% worn begfore you could use them in anger 
. Shirley some GP starts should get them working quicker 
. Harry
HarryW said:
having recently swapped my SO2s for Toyos I experienced very suspect handling for a good few hundred (500>
bad luck.
Do they really take that long to bed in
Harry
yep, but as advised I didnt use the
approach as I was told doing it shortly after fitting could mean twisting the tyre around the alloy.Firstly. Yum, glad to hear your ok, shame about the car 
Secondly, I seem to remember the tyre issue being discussed at length a while back. I'll have a look for the thread, but I think the general concencus was to 'bed in' a set of tyres you need to do around 200 miles of 'spirited' driving. Drive for 50 miles keeping the tyres nice a warm, then stop and let them cool. repeat another 3 to 4 times.
Black lines from traffic lights don't have the same effect apparently.
Secondly, I seem to remember the tyre issue being discussed at length a while back. I'll have a look for the thread, but I think the general concencus was to 'bed in' a set of tyres you need to do around 200 miles of 'spirited' driving. Drive for 50 miles keeping the tyres nice a warm, then stop and let them cool. repeat another 3 to 4 times.
Black lines from traffic lights don't have the same effect apparently.
I recently did a HPC driving course and the day was finished on the MIRA wet handling circuit. I was frightened fartless by the demonstration of the wet handling capabilities of the Chimp (the limits were so high and the cornering speeds likewise I thought I was going to die!!!Way in excess of what I thought they would be)I then spent 45 minutes practicing skids and slides on the wet handling rings. To sum up my experience there, holding a slide in a Chimp is nearly impossible unless you are some sort of car God like my instructor but recovering one is very simple. In ALL cases take your foot off the accelerator. Oversteer....take your foot off and steer. Understeer.....back off the throttle....more power equals more understeer and more crossed controls (ignor what the mags say). Spinning....too late....take your foot off. steer and hang on. It works and is easy because it is always the same corrective action. This isn't what I've been told, it's what I've experienced.
I had a spin once in my Chimp on the way to have the rear tyres changed. I kept the boot in thinking I was being smart and I span. No damage and I lived but I was just luckier than some and it gave me a wake up call.
MIRA is expensive (£220 + VAT per HOUR) at the end of an expensive days training but one day it may save my life. How do you put a value on that. Incidentaly HPC are the only trainers allowed to use MIRA.
I'm sure it was your tyres that let the side down and I'm very glad to hear you are OK.
Kevin
I had a spin once in my Chimp on the way to have the rear tyres changed. I kept the boot in thinking I was being smart and I span. No damage and I lived but I was just luckier than some and it gave me a wake up call.
MIRA is expensive (£220 + VAT per HOUR
) at the end of an expensive days training but one day it may save my life. How do you put a value on that. Incidentaly HPC are the only trainers allowed to use MIRA. I'm sure it was your tyres that let the side down and I'm very glad to hear you are OK.
Kevin
kevin Secker said:
Incidentaly HPC are the only trainers allowed to use MIRA.
Not strictly true, Kevin. MIRA does only allow a very small set of approved trainers to use the facilities, and yes, they are very expensive. But there are other MIRA accredited driving trainers besides HPC.
I use Steve Smith at Total Control (www.tc7.co.uk) and have been to MIRA several times with him. Superb facilities and well worth the expense. I learned so much about handling the Chim in a day, and in a safe environment.
hugh
kevin Secker said:
Incidentaly HPC are the only trainers allowed to use MIRA.
Not strictly true, Kevin. MIRA does only allow a very small set of approved trainers to use the facilities, and yes, they are very expensive. But there are other MIRA accredited driving trainers besides HPC.
I use Steve Smith at Total Control (www.tc7.co.uk) and have been to MIRA several times with him. Superb facilities and well worth the expense. I learned so much about handling the Chim in a day, and in a safe environment.
hugh
kevin Secker said:
To sum up my experience there, holding a slide in a Chimp is nearly impossible unless you are some sort of car God like my instructor but recovering one is very simple. In ALL cases take your foot off the accelerator. Oversteer....take your foot off and steer. Understeer.....back off the throttle....more power equals more understeer and more crossed controls (ignor what the mags say). Spinning....too late....take your foot off. steer and hang on. It works and is easy because it is always the same corrective action. This isn't what I've been told, it's what I've experienced.
Anyone who understands the basics of oversteer and opposite lock should be able to catch the initial slide as long as they start to react relatively promptly. Leave it too long and it gets harder to catch and pretty soon you get to the point where all bets are off. Having (hopefully) caught the initial slide, you are faced with the rebound which is far quicker and more severe and consequently far harder to catch. This is why you see so many people going off on the outside of a bend just after the corner.
Personally I prefer to keep a little power on during a slide for various reaons, this is not the same as keeping the right foot planted which is what people tend to do in the heat of the moment.
This all comes with practice, unfortunately if you wait for it to happen on the road your first attempt will probably also be your last.
kevin Secker said:
Spinning....too late....take your foot off. steer and hang on. It works and is easy because it is always the same corrective action. This isn't what I've been told, it's what I've experienced.
Kevin
Can't argue with experience however when spinning surely you were advised to brake? When out of control it is the best way to scrub off speed before impact.
Glad you are OK Yum.
Bad luck Yum... Must admit I never fishtailed the Chim or S under acceleration but have spun the S several times on different handling excersises on a driver training day, and had the Chimaera squealing all over the place on track once or twice.
Ultimately IMHumbleO your basic instincts take over when things get out of shape, and getting your basic instinct in tune with what is needed to control your car is the hard part I reckon and that needs LOTS of practice.. I'm certainly not even close yet, but the more trackdays and training days I do, can't be doing any harm.
Best of luck in finding a nice replacement
Cheers
Matt.
Must admit I never fishtailed the Chim or S under acceleration but have spun the S several times on different handling excersises on a driver training day, and had the Chimaera squealing all over the place on track once or twice. Ultimately IMHumbleO your basic instincts take over when things get out of shape, and getting your basic instinct in tune with what is needed to control your car is the hard part I reckon and that needs LOTS of practice.. I'm certainly not even close yet, but the more trackdays and training days I do, can't be doing any harm.
Best of luck in finding a nice replacement
Cheers
Matt.
no, it wasn't under acceleration, this was fishtailing when i was pulling back in on part throttle. she just started to oscillate with increasing amplitude and eventually switched ends and left the road.
Yes, I've done a number of these courses and had extensive track-day instruction, and that is what scares me - a well-known road, a familiar car (five years of ownership) and she still bites back!
i had a good look at the site yesterday. i still can't understand how it happened, but it is clear that I was very lucky, as (for example) if one branch had been two feet lower, it might have hit me on the back of the head rather than passing over.....
Yes, I've done a number of these courses and had extensive track-day instruction, and that is what scares me - a well-known road, a familiar car (five years of ownership) and she still bites back!
i had a good look at the site yesterday. i still can't understand how it happened, but it is clear that I was very lucky, as (for example) if one branch had been two feet lower, it might have hit me on the back of the head rather than passing over.....
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff