Ignition servicing intervals
Discussion
How often do you guys replace ignition components. They don't appear to be replaced as part of the service, which is surprising. So do you replace as they cause problems or is there a life expectancy ?
I have the standard LUCAS system setup and I'm asking about HT leads, plugs, plug extenders, rotor arm and dizzy cap.
Obviously rotor arm and dizzy cap wear but other things should last pretty well ?
I've seen arcing between the top (lead end) of a plug extender and the exhaust manifold so there's obviously a problem there. Have temporarily moved the extender to increase the gap so sparking stopped for now but this brought up the above question.
I have the standard LUCAS system setup and I'm asking about HT leads, plugs, plug extenders, rotor arm and dizzy cap.
Obviously rotor arm and dizzy cap wear but other things should last pretty well ?
I've seen arcing between the top (lead end) of a plug extender and the exhaust manifold so there's obviously a problem there. Have temporarily moved the extender to increase the gap so sparking stopped for now but this brought up the above question.
Good question - i personally tend to replace rotor arms and dizzy caps every 3-4 years & check/clean them each year in between.
Afterall they are the weakest link in relieability as are other electricals to keep the cars running efficiently, so for the minimal cost of replacement its a no brainer & 5 minute job.
Afterall they are the weakest link in relieability as are other electricals to keep the cars running efficiently, so for the minimal cost of replacement its a no brainer & 5 minute job.
MADMAX2 said:
if its not broke dont fix it
I have to strongly disagree, ignition components wear out and you very often can't tell by looking at them that an imminent failure is on the horizon.The fact is a significant number of breakdowns on these cars are caused by the failure ignition components.
Just have a search of this forum & it won't take long to find examples of hapless owners left stranded due to a failed rotor arm, dead coil or cooked ignition amplifier.
Keep the ignition side in good fettle and sort out the dreadful Achilles heel that is the immobiliser, and these cars can actually be extremely reliable.
Servicing is preventative maintenance designed to avoid a breakdown, with all the above in mind a comprehensive ignition service is probably one of the best things you can do to improve the reliability of your TVR.
When I bought my Chimaera 4 years ago, giving it an ignition service was part of the comprehensive full service I did straight away.
My TVR was maintained to the book
by a well known TVR specialist, although it was a very good condition low mileage car with excellent history I still found 15 small items/areas that required immediate attention, a burnt HT lead was just one of them.The OP is absolutely right to be asking this question and in my opinion shows he's understood the importance of regular preventive maintenance.
The fact is the guy that adopts the "if its not broke don't fix it" approach to maintenance will be a thousand times more likely to suffer an unforeseen & deeply inconvenient breakdown, than the OP who wants to keep on top of his ignition system.
Remember a Chimaera or Griffith engine bay can is an exceedingly punishing environment for electrical & ignition components, due in no small part to the considerable heat generated by the forward throw exhaust manifolds & Y piece.
This is further compounded by the three restrictive catalytic converters housed within them.
So lets look at what fails:
1) The coil - Only last year one of our fold had to be repatriated from mainland Europe because of a simple coil failure.
Personally I would replace the coil every 30,000 miles, fit a Bosch unit as it's more reliable than anything else and not that much more expensive than something cheap like the Intermotor brand which has a poor reputation.
After replacing your coil, put the functioning unit you've just removed in an emergency spares bag in the boot.
2) The ignition amplifier - This is a notorious failure point.
I would also replace this component every 30,000 miles.
Replace with a quality unit using the heat sink compound provided in the box - the compound is in there for a reason so use it, if you don't find some compound in the box you have bought an inferior amp, so it needs returning not fitting.
Again, put the functioning unit you've just removed in your emergency spares bag in the boot.
3) The distributor cap - Not expensive so replace it with a good quality one every 30,000 miles.
4) The Rotor Arm - Another known weakness, especially if someone has not fitted a genuine old stock Lucas one.
When you buy a new rotor arm be very careful, just because it comes in a Lucas box doesn't mean it's any good.
For the last 10 years or more components found in a Lucas box are not really decent Lucas parts, in the case of the Rover V8 rotor arm it's probably made in India where they cleverly decided to add graphite to the insulation to replicate the look of the original old school black Bakelite.
These new Indian made Lucas rotor arms are as bad as all the others, they short and arch causing mysterious misfires and loss of power.
If you cant find a new/old stock proper Lucas rotor arm with the word Lucas cast into the Bakelite insulation, then try a red one from The Distributor Doctor, I hear they work well.
Again it's worth keeping a quality spare rotor arm in that emergency spares bag in your boot.
5) Ignition (HT) leads - These suffer from heat like all the other ignition components so I would also replace them every 30,000 miles.
Use quality leads from the likes of Bosch, remember they are just Range Rover leads so buy them from a Range Rover specialist to avoid paying inflated prices at your TVR specialist.
Retain the king lead (coil to distributor) & the longest ignition lead in your breakdown bag.
6) Plug extenders - Personally I would fit your HT leads with some decent heat protective woven fibreglass socks and delete the extenders altogether, it's a personal choice but I've had zero issues running my car like this.
The way I see it with some woven fibreglass socks protecting the ends of your new leads all you are doing by deleting the extenders is removing another connection and 8 points of potential failure.
It's up to you if you choose to delete them or not, if you keep them they really need replacing every 50,000 miles or sooner and they're not cheap for a set of 8.
7) Spark plugs - These are a service item so strictly speaking aren't part of the answer to the OP's question.
However, I have had great success replacing the original shrouded NGK B7ECS with a set of NGK BPR6EIX iridium plugs, others have seen similar improvements in idle & throttle response so it's not just me saying it now.
You can read about my switch to these plugs here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If you shop around you can buy a set of 8 NGK BPR6EIX iridium plugs for £55.00 delivered, and while a set of the original B7ECS will be half that, they need replacing almost three times more frequently.
If you fit a set of BPR6EIX iridium plugs you can easily get 30,000 miles reliable service from them, where as I would be looking to replace the B7ECS plugs every 12,000 miles.
So thats it, the OP is right, a sensible schedule for replacing your ignition components is critical to the reliability of your TVR.
If you end up on the side of the road one night or stuck in France with no parts you've really only got yourself to blame.
A full ignition service will also help to ensure your TVR is performing to it's full potential, & delivering the best fuel economy too.
If you do choose to ignore the servicing of your ignition system, and you do break down, just remember this:
The machine didn't let you down, you let the machine down by not maintaining it properly
Russell Mc said:
Apart from the obvious quality differences are all rotor arms interchangeable or am I looking for a certain type to fit certain years? Hope this makes sense.
Due to the fact that genuine old stock Lucas rotor arms are like hens teeth and modern day Lucas aint up to much, i fitted rotor and leads from this guy. He states the rotor arm was made to combat the problems regarding todays ones. Mine seems fine as are his leads. Many on here have used his products and i have not heard of any problems. plus with the price you can afford to replace whenever you feel like it.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-3-9-3-5-V8-Blue-Di...
Edited by carsy on Wednesday 23 January 20:47
carsy said:
Due to the fact that genuine old stock Lucas rotor arms are like hens teeth and modern day Lucas aint up to much, i fitted rotor and leads from this guy. He states the rotor arm was made to combat the problems regarding todays ones. Mine seems fine as are his leads. Many on here have used his products and i have not heard of any problems. plus with the price you can afford to replace whenever you feel like it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-3-9-3-5-V8-Blue-Di...
I've bought distributor cap, rotor arm and a fuel pump from him and they've all been fine...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-3-9-3-5-V8-Blue-Di...
Phil
The best bet is just to go distributorless and junk all of the old lucas ignition stuff that you struggle to get sensible replacement items for. On a serious note, Austec Racing bought all of the last Lucas Rotor arms made if you are struggling. Unless you are determined to keep the car original you really are better off junking that stuff.
ChimpofDarkness said:
Remember a Chimaera or Griffith engine bay can is an exceedingly punishing environment for electrical & ignition components, due in no small part to the considerable heat generated by the forward throw exhaust manifolds & Y piece.
...and...ChimpofDarkness said:
6) Plug extenders - Personally I would fit your HT leads with some decent heat protective woven fibreglass socks and delete the extenders altogether, it's a personal choice but I've had zero issues running my car like this.
I think Dave's hit the nail square on the hear here - if it wasn't for that bloody stupid exhaust design then the engine bay would be considerably cooler and everything else wouldn't get baked to a crisp.The plug extenders are in my experience a steaming pile of poo and another major source of failure (but again - only due to the damn furnace like heat of the exhaust manifolds) ... I'm on my third set of extenders in three years and eager to get rid - I've tried going straight onto the plugs with the leads but with straight leads then 7 and 8 do tend to lay very close to the manifolds, and on mine at least have ended up singing the leads on several occasions.
I now have some 45 degree leads to make up and I'm hoping that they'll do the job.
My numbers 7 and 8 extenders are *CONSTANTLY* coming loose and I have swapped them over with other cylinders that don't pop off - I can only assume it's the heat as I do click them on properly and when I swap the extenders between cylinders then it's still only 7 and 8 that pop off - and of course are the most damn difficult to get at!
skiver said:
Can anyone recommend a UK supplier of the heat resistant socks for the plugs?
I bought mine from the USA ...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370478570116
They're a higher temperature version of the standard boots (the standard boots didn't survive on mine but these seem OK).
Phil
I got mine from America, as most have, Ebay, about £30 delivered. Unfortunately they didnt last too long and all but burnt through where facing the manifolds. Apparently there are cheap versions and expensive versions. Needless to say if you are going to use them go for the more expensive variety. I am now back on the plug extenders.
skiver said:
Just priced yours at about £55 delivered. Initially I was surprised but then remembered there are 8 of the b
ds!
Yup - they also incur import duty too so I think came in at about £70 but they were still cheaper than I found the lower temperature ones over here (for a set of eight as you point out).ds!Just one more thing to add to Chimp's list, although not ignition related...
At least once a year, get your car up on stands and have a good look underneath it for anything that doesn't look right. In particular, check the condition of the 100A fuse housed in a little plastic box attached to one of the chassis members on the driver's side. At least check it for condition and make sure the little box is closed securely, but consider replacing the fuse anyway and carry a spare or two. It's another common cause of breakdowns.
I agree with the advice, and it was me whose coil failed in France. Before doing another long road trip, I will at the very least furnish myself with a complete set of ignition spares to take with me (amp, rotor arm, cap, leads, coil). I also plan to fit the two-stage fan controller on the basis that it'll cause a bit of air movement before the otter switch trips. That must help to keep temperatures down a bit.
At least once a year, get your car up on stands and have a good look underneath it for anything that doesn't look right. In particular, check the condition of the 100A fuse housed in a little plastic box attached to one of the chassis members on the driver's side. At least check it for condition and make sure the little box is closed securely, but consider replacing the fuse anyway and carry a spare or two. It's another common cause of breakdowns.
I agree with the advice, and it was me whose coil failed in France. Before doing another long road trip, I will at the very least furnish myself with a complete set of ignition spares to take with me (amp, rotor arm, cap, leads, coil). I also plan to fit the two-stage fan controller on the basis that it'll cause a bit of air movement before the otter switch trips. That must help to keep temperatures down a bit.
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