T5 gearbox atf oil , recommendations

[PYNEY]

hi all

search engine down !

could some one confirm the the "preferred" atf oil for the t5 gearbox please and approx litres to fill it up ?
from memory i'm sure morris liquimatic super atf is the one to go for if you could confirm

cheers keith

[Hoofa]

Did mines yesterday, about 2.5 litres, semi synthetic Morris oils 75/90 I think but mine is a beefed up t5 box, don't use redline oils or any of that gear shock stuff. That's what I was told the chaps that built mine.

[Discopotatoes]

I use this as an additive
http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/products.php?page=produc...
It has made the updated gearbox quieter and smoother in gear changes, also used it in the diff and engine.
Of all the additives this one does what it says on the tin

[TJC46]

PYNEY said:

hi all

search engine down !

could some one confirm the the "preferred" atf oil for the t5 gearbox please and approx litres to fill it up ?
from memory i'm sure morris liquimatic super atf is the one to go for if you could confirm

cheers keith

Here you go for capacity

http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-gu...

Here you go for the ATF gearbox oil.[as used by TVR from new.]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mobil-1-ATF-220-Premium-...

[PYNEY]

thanks for all the info

[Pupp]

There's a school of thought that says there are better lubricants than ATF for the T5 despite the manufacturer recommendation to use the stuff. A good search on here would reveal the various engineering and accounting reasons if the bloody search worked. If tempted to try 'proper' gear oils, just be aware there can be fibre parts in BW/Tremec boxes that are not necessarily compatible with all lubes. Castrol Syntrans 75w90 in mine for a couple of changes worth now and I'm a convert from ATF...

[OleVix]

Discopotatoes said:

I use this as an additive
http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/products.php?page=produc...
It has made the updated gearbox quieter and smoother in gear changes, also used it in the diff and engine.
Of all the additives this one does what it says on the tin

I'm interested in this stuff... have you tried it alot? Its not teflon stuff inside ??

[SILICONEKID350HP]

Lucas oils are massive in the USA ,for some reason they have not cracked the UK market .

We have a localish distributor in Worksop ..

http://www.dukeriesengineering.com/

I use there 85w140 gear oil for the diff , they do a large selection of engine oils . You can check them out on fleabay .

http://www.dukeriesengineering.com/www.dukerieseng...

http://www.dukeriesengineering.com/www.dukerieseng...

Edited by SILICONEKID350HP on Wednesday 20th February 23:45

[ChimpofDarkness]

Pupp said:

There's a school of thought that says there are better lubricants than ATF for the T5 despite the manufacturer recommendation to use the stuff. A good search on here would reveal the various engineering and accounting reasons if the bloody search worked. If tempted to try 'proper' gear oils, just be aware there can be fibre parts in BW/Tremec boxes that are not necessarily compatible with all lubes. Castrol Syntrans 75w90 in mine for a couple of changes worth now and I'm a convert from ATF...

Interesting Pupp, I've been looking at this myself for some time and there are strong arguments either way.

Why are you a convert of Castrol Syntrans 75w90?

Exactly what benefits have you seen over ATF?

[phazed]

Don't know the exact benefit but it was well documented on here several years ago.

I've been running the "alternative" oil for about 4 years, change is slick and there doesn't seem a downside.

[ChimpofDarkness]

phazed said:

Don't know the exact benefit but it was well documented on here several years ago.

I've been running the "alternative" oil for about 4 years, change is slick and there doesn't seem a downside.

I'm not so sure the debate was ever conclusively resolved Peter, in fact to this day it still rages on in the Mustang world over the pond.

Did you see any benefits over ATF?

If you did I would genuinely love to hear about them.

Taking regular sulphur heavy hypoid gearbox oils out the equation which we all know will eventually eat synchro cones in the T5, I set about reading everything I could find on the two options (ATF vs the heavier fully synth gearbox oils).

I then consulted two reputable transmission builders to gauge their views, without any hesitation both advised ATF should always be used in a T5.

I ended up with a list of arguments for & against the use of ATF, the evaluation of these arguments I believe is the only fair way to get to the bottom of this well debated topic....


Arguments for ATF:

• The gearbox was designed by BW specifically for ATF

• BW who spent an awful lot of money developing the T5 & have an excellent reputation to protect, only recommend ATF

• BW would not specify it if there was any risk of failure from using ATF

• The are literally tens of thousands of T5s out there that have repeatedly proven ATF delivers a long service life even in cases where the box is subjected to higher levels of torque than the maximum figures quoted by BW

Arguments against ATF: (from what I can tell these can basically be condensed into these two quotes from ATF doubters on internet forums):

• "It seems a bit thin to me"

• "I'm sure I know more about what oil best suits this gearbox than the manufacturer"

Arguments for Synthetic gearbox oils (Red Line MTL, Castrol Syntrans 75w90, GM synchro oil ect ect):

• "Being thicker it's got to offer better protection to the gear sets & bearings, right?"

• "BW only ever used AFT to help manufacturers get the economy figures they wanted"

Arguments against Synthetic gearbox oils (Red Line MTL, Castrol Syntrans 75w90, GM synchro oil ect ect):

• BW didn't design the gearbox with this oil in mind

• BW never specified anything other than ATF

• There is no evidence a thicker synthetic gearbox oil offers better protection or longevity over ATF

I can honestly say I went into this with an open mind, but the conclusion after carefully studying the subject and building the above analysis boils down to one question:

1) Do you prefer to trust internet forum conjecture over clear instruction from the manufacturer?



Irrespective of my conclusion I'm sure the argument will range on indefinitely, fuelled to the most part by car enthusiasts belief they know better than the manufacturer.

Saying all that I went with a fully synth ATF, & while my T5 changes (hot or cold) slicker than goose poo on this oil, I can detect the 5th gear sychro cone struggling on flat out power shifts.

In BW's defence the gearbox really wasn't designed for this type of high torque shifting into 5th as it was just intended to be used as an overdive ratio.

But I do find myself wondering if a fully synth ATF is just a little too slippery, which lets face it is never going to help the operation of synchro cones.

As such I find myself once again asking if I should try running it on Redline MTL which is closer to AFT in viscosity than the thicker fully synth 75w90 oils some are using.

Like I say "I'm not so sure the debate was ever conclusively resolved"



Note to self: Perhaps I should just try to avoid those flat out shifts into filth

[phazed]

Good post Dave.

I repeat, "I know nothing"

[SILICONEKID350HP]

ChimpofDarkness said:

phazed said:

Don't know the exact benefit but it was well documented on here several years ago.

I've been running the "alternative" oil for about 4 years, change is slick and there doesn't seem a downside.

I'm not so sure the debate was ever conclusively resolved Peter, in fact to this day it still rages on in the Mustang world over the pond.

Did you see any benefits over ATF?

If you did I would genuinely love to hear about them.

Taking regular sulphur heavy hypoid gearbox oils out the equation which we all know will eventually eat synchro cones in the T5, I set about reading everything I could find on the two options (ATF vs the heavier fully synth gearbox oils).

I then consulted two reputable transmission builders to gauge their views, without any hesitation both advised ATF should always be used in a T5.

I ended up with a list of arguments for & against the use of ATF, the evaluation of these arguments I believe is the only fair way to get to the bottom of this well debated topic....


Arguments for ATF:

• The gearbox was designed by BW specifically for ATF

• BW who spent an awful lot of money developing the T5 & have an excellent reputation to protect, only recommend ATF

• BW would not specify it if there was any risk of failure from using ATF

• The are literally tens of thousands of T5s out there that have repeatedly proven ATF delivers a long service life even in cases where the box is subjected to higher levels of torque than the maximum figures quoted by BW

Arguments against ATF: (from what I can tell these can basically be condensed into these two quotes from ATF doubters on internet forums):

• "It seems a bit thin to me"

• "I'm sure I know more about what oil best suits this gearbox than the manufacturer"

Arguments for Synthetic gearbox oils (Red Line MTL, Castrol Syntrans 75w90, GM synchro oil ect ect):

• "Being thicker it's got to offer better protection to the gear sets & bearings, right?"

• "BW only ever used AFT to help manufacturers get the economy figures they wanted"

Arguments against Synthetic gearbox oils (Red Line MTL, Castrol Syntrans 75w90, GM synchro oil ect ect):

• BW didn't design the gearbox with this oil in mind

• BW never specified anything other than ATF

• There is no evidence a thicker synthetic gearbox oil offers better protection or longevity over ATF

I can honestly say I went into this with an open mind, but the conclusion after carefully studying the subject and building the above analysis boils down to one question:

1) Do you prefer to trust internet forum conjecture over clear instruction from the manufacturer?



Irrespective of my conclusion I'm sure the argument will range on indefinitely, fuelled to the most part by car enthusiasts belief they know better than the manufacturer.

Saying all that I went with a fully synth ATF, & while my T5 changes (hot or cold) slicker than goose poo on this oil, I can detect the 5th gear sychro cone struggling on flat out power shifts.

In BW's defence the gearbox really wasn't designed for this type of high torque shifting into 5th as it was just intended to be used as an overdive ratio.

But I do find myself wondering if a fully synth ATF is just a little too slippery, which lets face it is never going to help the operation of synchro cones.

As such I find myself once again asking if I should try running it on Redline MTL which is closer to AFT in viscosity than the thicker fully synth 75w90 oils some are using.

Like I say "I'm not so sure the debate was ever conclusively resolved"



Note to self: Perhaps I should just try to avoid those flat out shifts into filth

I think your geaerbox will be fine with the little lower powered 4l engine

[Hoofa]

Good post chimp !!

So if have a modified T5 with Quaife internals I was advised to run semi-syntheic and dont bother with additives ?? I guess in the end does it matter what you use along as its a decent quality ?

[db418BHP]

Sorry if i missed it but where does 'Royal Purple' sit in this debate.
My gearbox builder recommended it as the best. I had Opie oils recommended ATF already so thats whats in my box at the moment.

[TJC46]

db418BHP said:

Sorry if i missed it but where does 'Royal Purple' sit in this debate.
My gearbox builder recommended it as the best. I had Opie oils recommended ATF already so thats whats in my box at the moment.

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/synchromax...

A very good question! Its a manual transmission fluid and not auto, although i dont know what difference that makes

Edited to add they do an ATF version as well

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/max-atf-au...


I stick to Mobil ATF as recommended by Borg Warner [the ATF bit at least]

My Chimaera is coming on for 17 years old now and has had nothing but Mobil ATF in there, and to date [touchwood] no problems.

Changed it last summer during a full engine, gearbox, and diff oil service.

Edited by TJC46 on Thursday 21st February 12:25

[phazed]

I used to use Royal Purple 20/50 in your engine, hard to get hold of now.

[SILICONEKID350HP]

Whats wrong with Dexron 111 ? Is that ATF I just get it from the local autofactors (carlube)

Edited by SILICONEKID350HP on Thursday 21st February 12:37

[ChimpofDarkness]

The funny thing is even though all my research clearly seems to suggest it makes sense to stick with ATF, I still find myself looking at Red Line MTL.

If it does no harm to the gearbox, still shifts acceptably when cold yet means I can slot it into fith at higher RPM without the sychro cones slipping too much (as they do on my Millers synth ATF).

Then I'm tempted to try Red Line MTL.

That's why I'm asking Pupp & Phazed if they genuinely noticed any benefits over ATF after switching to their synthetic gear oils.

I'm less interested in "it works fine" comments, I'm confident Red Line MTL wont do much harm to the T5.

But I would love to know if these synthetic gear oils offer better synchro cone grip than ATF yet still give an acceptable shift when cold.

I guess the only reliable way to find out is to try some in my box.

Of course I do have one other option, & that's to ditch the synthetic ATF that's in there at the moment & try some regular non synth ATF which I had in it before.

I honestly cant remember if I had the fifth gear syncho slip issue when I had regular ATF in it, but I have a feeling I didn't.

Could the answer be the synthetic ATF is just too slippery & all I need to do is fill it with some significantly cheaper regular ATF?

Talk about coming full circle

[SILICONEKID350HP]

Is Dexron 111 ATF ?