What other work whilst engine is out?
Discussion
My engine needs to come out for the cam bearings and I now have some options of replacing some parts whilst the car engine is out as this should save on future labour.
My main question concerns the clutch. How much labour is it to change the clutch when the engine is still in the car? The clutch was working fine so if it’s not too much trouble to drop the gearbox, I’ll probably stick with the old one. Having said that, I can’t see any record in the cars 77k history to indicate it has had a new clutch so this may be a false economy…
Thoughts welcome.
Other stuff which I will be doing is new engine mounts and new stainless steel water pipes. I can also get a silicone hose set but the old traditionalist in me wants regular black rubber hoses. Is this mad?
The other big additional optional job is the heads – should I get the valves machined at the same time?
Like I said, I’d really appreciate valuable feedback as this is a large expense that I have not planned.
Many thanks,
Karl
My main question concerns the clutch. How much labour is it to change the clutch when the engine is still in the car? The clutch was working fine so if it’s not too much trouble to drop the gearbox, I’ll probably stick with the old one. Having said that, I can’t see any record in the cars 77k history to indicate it has had a new clutch so this may be a false economy…
Thoughts welcome.
Other stuff which I will be doing is new engine mounts and new stainless steel water pipes. I can also get a silicone hose set but the old traditionalist in me wants regular black rubber hoses. Is this mad?
The other big additional optional job is the heads – should I get the valves machined at the same time?
Like I said, I’d really appreciate valuable feedback as this is a large expense that I have not planned.
Many thanks,
Karl
The question is how long is a poece of string?
You could have done what is considered the necessary minimum or take the plunge and have the engine fully overhauled. Do you just want it running or do you want longevity and maybe more power?
A clutch swap isnt a massive job. I would think any decent garage should only charge you 4-6 hours labour tops.
You could have done what is considered the necessary minimum or take the plunge and have the engine fully overhauled. Do you just want it running or do you want longevity and maybe more power?
A clutch swap isnt a massive job. I would think any decent garage should only charge you 4-6 hours labour tops.
Personally (remember I am no expert), I would really do the Clutch, you don't want your car all fixed engine wise just for the Clutch to start slipping. On the scale of things its not that expensive. The cars done a few miles now, if its on the original Clutch.
For the other things I would just do things that are really necessary with the engine out. Are the water hoses or engine mounts worn? These could be done later when the engine is back in.
Are they the checking heads i.e. are the valves or guides worn? Then they will have to be machined.
I have got Black Silicon hoses on mine they do look nice and supposed to cope better than rubber.
For the other things I would just do things that are really necessary with the engine out. Are the water hoses or engine mounts worn? These could be done later when the engine is back in.
Are they the checking heads i.e. are the valves or guides worn? Then they will have to be machined.
I have got Black Silicon hoses on mine they do look nice and supposed to cope better than rubber.
If it were me, I'd do the following:
Check/Asses and possibly replace the engine Mounts
Replace the Water Pipes & thermostat
Have the valves re-seated
Replace the clutch (for peace of mind - and to save another big bill later)
Replace those awkward fuel lines
Install an Anderson Plug into the front of the engine bay
Check/asses the starter motor heavy duty cable and replace if needed
Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds
Repaint the chassis rails that can be accessed with the engine out
Remove the radiator and check/assess/replace or repaint as necessary
TBH I'd do them if it were mine and I were doing the work, I'm not certain I'd pay a garage to do them but if the engine is out I'd definitely have them do the clutch, hoses, thermostat and fuel lines.
Check/Asses and possibly replace the engine Mounts
Replace the Water Pipes & thermostat
Have the valves re-seated
Replace the clutch (for peace of mind - and to save another big bill later)
Replace those awkward fuel lines
Install an Anderson Plug into the front of the engine bay
Check/asses the starter motor heavy duty cable and replace if needed
Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds
Repaint the chassis rails that can be accessed with the engine out
Remove the radiator and check/assess/replace or repaint as necessary
TBH I'd do them if it were mine and I were doing the work, I'm not certain I'd pay a garage to do them but if the engine is out I'd definitely have them do the clutch, hoses, thermostat and fuel lines.
Jules,
Most of your list has either been done or is on the to do list.
Clutch, valves, the biggest expense so still to decide but it's already a fairly chunky bill with the engine being stripped down to the block so....
If it were me, I'd do the following:
Check/Asses and possibly replace the engine Mounts GOING TO GET DONE
Replace the Water Pipes & thermostat THERMOSTAT DONE, HOSES WILL BE DONE
Have the valves re-seated QUESTION MARK FOR ME
Replace the clutch (for peace of mind - and to save another big bill later) QUESTION MARK FOR ME
Replace those awkward fuel lines DONE AT SERVICE
Install an Anderson Plug into the front of the engine bay HAVE A BATTERY CONDITIONER INSTEAD
Check/asses the starter motor heavy duty cable and replace if needed DONE
Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds SILLY PRICE FOR NOT MUCH GAIN IN MY OPINION
Repaint the chassis rails that can be accessed with the engine out GOING TO BE DONE
Remove the radiator and check/assess/replace or repaint as necessary RAD CHANGED AT SERVICE
TBH I'd do them if it were mine and I were doing the work, I'm not certain I'd pay a garage to do them but if the engine is out I'd definitely have them do the clutch, hoses, thermostat and fuel lines.
Most of your list has either been done or is on the to do list.
Clutch, valves, the biggest expense so still to decide but it's already a fairly chunky bill with the engine being stripped down to the block so....
If it were me, I'd do the following:
Check/Asses and possibly replace the engine Mounts GOING TO GET DONE
Replace the Water Pipes & thermostat THERMOSTAT DONE, HOSES WILL BE DONE
Have the valves re-seated QUESTION MARK FOR ME
Replace the clutch (for peace of mind - and to save another big bill later) QUESTION MARK FOR ME
Replace those awkward fuel lines DONE AT SERVICE
Install an Anderson Plug into the front of the engine bay HAVE A BATTERY CONDITIONER INSTEAD
Check/asses the starter motor heavy duty cable and replace if needed DONE
Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds SILLY PRICE FOR NOT MUCH GAIN IN MY OPINION
Repaint the chassis rails that can be accessed with the engine out GOING TO BE DONE
Remove the radiator and check/assess/replace or repaint as necessary RAD CHANGED AT SERVICE
TBH I'd do them if it were mine and I were doing the work, I'm not certain I'd pay a garage to do them but if the engine is out I'd definitely have them do the clutch, hoses, thermostat and fuel lines.
My engine was out for a re-build over the winter, I had these "extras" done
New rubber fuel hoses
New thermostat
New silicone water hoses
New ACT stainless water pipe
Oil pump rebuilt
New engine mounts
Pre-cats removed
Clutch checked but OK (mine was only on 30k miles)
Obviously new gaskets/seals throughout
New rubber fuel hoses
New thermostat
New silicone water hoses
New ACT stainless water pipe
Oil pump rebuilt
New engine mounts
Pre-cats removed
Clutch checked but OK (mine was only on 30k miles)
Obviously new gaskets/seals throughout
swanny71 said:
My engine was out for a re-build over the winter, I had these "extras" done
New rubber fuel hoses
New thermostat
New silicone water hoses
New ACT stainless water pipe
Oil pump rebuilt
New engine mounts
Pre-cats removed
Clutch checked but OK (mine was only on 30k miles)
Obviously new gaskets/seals throughout
That's all either on the list or being done with the exception of pre-cats and oil pump (but I must check that as that seems a very obvious thing to do).New rubber fuel hoses
New thermostat
New silicone water hoses
New ACT stainless water pipe
Oil pump rebuilt
New engine mounts
Pre-cats removed
Clutch checked but OK (mine was only on 30k miles)
Obviously new gaskets/seals throughout
A900ss said:
1. Install an Anderson Plug into the front of the engine bay HAVE A BATTERY CONDITIONER INSTEAD
2. Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds SILLY PRICE FOR NOT MUCH GAIN IN MY OPINION
1. id still install an Anderson Plug - if the battery dies (and conditioner or not it can happen) its a pig to get jump leads on the battery2. Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds SILLY PRICE FOR NOT MUCH GAIN IN MY OPINION
2. which part is the silly price ?
if the engines out its so much easier than if its in the bay - and you could always remove the precats from the manifolds yourself whilst the engine is being sorted. (tbh if it were me id always want to remove the manifolds and fit new gaskets if having engine out anyways)
as for not much gain - again which part are you referring to ?the removal of the precats or the coating/wrapping ?
removing the precats helps remove a restriction or bottleneck in the system which on their own they may not give much gain, but they would work in conjunction with other mods.
wrapping/coating again helps - it keeps heat in the exhaust and not in the engine bay and this helps scavenging and will also help speed up the exit of the gases.
BountyHunter said:
A900ss said:
1. Install an Anderson Plug into the front of the engine bay HAVE A BATTERY CONDITIONER INSTEAD
2. Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds SILLY PRICE FOR NOT MUCH GAIN IN MY OPINION
1. id still install an Anderson Plug - if the battery dies (and conditioner or not it can happen) its a pig to get jump leads on the battery2. Remove the precats and either coat/paint or wrap the manifolds SILLY PRICE FOR NOT MUCH GAIN IN MY OPINION
2. which part is the silly price ?
if the engines out its so much easier than if its in the bay - and you could always remove the precats from the manifolds yourself whilst the engine is being sorted. (tbh if it were me id always want to remove the manifolds and fit new gaskets if having engine out anyways)
as for not much gain - again which part are you referring to ?the removal of the precats or the coating/wrapping ?
removing the precats helps remove a restriction or bottleneck in the system which on their own they may not give much gain, but they would work in conjunction with other mods.
wrapping/coating again helps - it keeps heat in the exhaust and not in the engine bay and this helps scavenging and will also help speed up the exit of the gases.
The manifolds are having new gaskets so I guess I could pick them up myself as they will be off the engine.
Are there any views on getting the valves machined as well?
A900ss said:
Silly price, in my opinion refers to removal of pre-cats. Is it really worth 4 hours labour? Is there really a huge benefit from their removal>
The manifolds are having new gaskets so I guess I could pick them up myself as they will be off the engine.
Are there any views on getting the valves machined as well?
No it's not worth paying them 4 hours labour for it - pop over and pick them up and DIY. The benefit is in a BIT more power and a BIT more noise that's about it. After you cam is done and with the TB now opening you probably wouldn't notice that comparatively small increase in power but the difference in noise might be enough for you to choose not to sleeve the pipe (and save a bit of money - albeit not a lot).The manifolds are having new gaskets so I guess I could pick them up myself as they will be off the engine.
Are there any views on getting the valves machined as well?
Precats... a bit more power and a bit louder with a chance of pops and bangs... and less heatsoak in the enginebay, it's a nobrainer !?
While doing a valve job, why not do a bit of porting? If the new cam is a bit hairier (mc1 or stealth) then I'd do this while heads off
While doing the clutch, have the flywheel lighthened or exchange for a lighter one from John Eales... faster accel and faster revving engine
While doing a valve job, why not do a bit of porting? If the new cam is a bit hairier (mc1 or stealth) then I'd do this while heads off
While doing the clutch, have the flywheel lighthened or exchange for a lighter one from John Eales... faster accel and faster revving engine
Julesprivate said:
No it's not worth paying them 4 hours labour for it - pop over and pick them up and DIY. The benefit is in a BIT more power and a BIT more noise that's about it. After you cam is done and with the TB now opening you probably wouldn't notice that comparatively small increase in power but the difference in noise might be enough for you to choose not to sleeve the pipe (and save a bit of money - albeit not a lot).
I might just do that Jules. Big drill and chisels could be fun!!!On a separate note I'm still debating getting the valves machined. Constructive advice is really welcomed for a numpty that bought a car with a duff cam and is turning sour. I'm just under 3k into this repair that is totally unplanned so will another £300 hurt in the scheme of things? Probably not but is it necessary. Worried that I'm just spending money for the sake of it.
The cam going in is a Stealth cam and I do plan to keep the car for several years (I have to now after spending all this cash!!!).
Many thanks,
Karl.
Edited by A900ss on Saturday 6th April 09:14
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