Do I have the Hot Start problem??
Discussion
After over two years of ownership and having read about the "hot start" problem, my Chim has suddenly decided not to start after a long run. If I leave her and come back later she will always start straight away.
I turn on the ignition and can hear the fuel pump OK but when I turn the key nothing happens except for a slight dimming of the warning lights in the speedo.Battery is OK and the starter motor seems to turn over at the usual speed.
Could it be the alarm starting to play up or is it more likely to be the usual problem?
I feel a Modwise kit coming on!!
Any help appreciated !
I turn on the ignition and can hear the fuel pump OK but when I turn the key nothing happens except for a slight dimming of the warning lights in the speedo.Battery is OK and the starter motor seems to turn over at the usual speed.
Could it be the alarm starting to play up or is it more likely to be the usual problem?
I feel a Modwise kit coming on!!
Any help appreciated !
That does fit the hot start description perfectly. You could just get the modwise kit, or just a relay to switch the solenoid. You connect the relay coil from the previous solenoid connection (now disconnected), and the other side of the coil to earth. Then take a fused (20 amp should be enough) 12v feed from the back of the alternator through the relay contacts to the solenoid.
Just to add to the confusion;
Yes, that does sound like the typical symptoms, yet Peter (phazed) could easily be correct too.
And now for the further confusion; the first time mine exhibited this behaviour, the TVR dealer changed the starter motor, and the problem went away for several years (of very regular use).
Then one day the symptoms came back, and I had Carl Baker diagnose it, and he installed his hot start fix.
The symptoms have not returned after 4 years.
Moral of that story; it's not necessarily as straight forward as it seems
All said and done though, there are a couple of good solutions to the hot start issue, and it seems to bite everyone eventually, so not a bad thing to have done. That said, Peter's suggestion would probably be cheaper to fix, if it's the problem.
Yes, that does sound like the typical symptoms, yet Peter (phazed) could easily be correct too.
And now for the further confusion; the first time mine exhibited this behaviour, the TVR dealer changed the starter motor, and the problem went away for several years (of very regular use).
Then one day the symptoms came back, and I had Carl Baker diagnose it, and he installed his hot start fix.
The symptoms have not returned after 4 years.
Moral of that story; it's not necessarily as straight forward as it seems
All said and done though, there are a couple of good solutions to the hot start issue, and it seems to bite everyone eventually, so not a bad thing to have done. That said, Peter's suggestion would probably be cheaper to fix, if it's the problem.
Mine was fine for a few years then the dreaded hot start occured, problem was a lack of engine/earth cable!, New cable and cleaned and bolted the other earths, problem solved.
Funny thing is I paid for a starter O/H which seemed to work for a few weeks then problem reappeared, then found the earth problem.
HTH.
Funny thing is I paid for a starter O/H which seemed to work for a few weeks then problem reappeared, then found the earth problem.
HTH.
BillC99 said:
After over two years of ownership and having read about the "hot start" problem, my Chim has suddenly decided not to start after a long run. If I leave her and come back later she will always start straight away.
I turn on the ignition and can hear the fuel pump OK but when I turn the key nothing happens except for a slight dimming of the warning lights in the speedo.Battery is OK and the starter motor seems to turn over at the usual speed.
Any help appreciated !
You say you can hear the fuel pump but when you turn the key nothing happens. I turn on the ignition and can hear the fuel pump OK but when I turn the key nothing happens except for a slight dimming of the warning lights in the speedo.Battery is OK and the starter motor seems to turn over at the usual speed.
Any help appreciated !
Then you say the starter motor turns over at the usual speed. so the starter motor is working, you are saying.
Do you mean it turns over at usual speed normally, but there is silence and no starter motor when you have this problem? (don't rule out a faulty earth, but...)
In which case it is probably your immobiliser dying, they all do that sir. The originals were not suitable for the car and TVR wired them backwards, so said Carl Baker from the depths of my passenger side footwell as he wired in a new system. The hot start Mod will buy you a bit of extra time, but in the end you will need the Meta upgrading to a new one (Carl helped them redesign it) that IS correctly wired. And it will only get worse the warmer the weather gets and the more town driving you do. The 15 minutes leave it and it starts is classic.
I had hot starting silences in May, fitted the hot start mod in June, immobiliser and alarm replaced Feb when the system failed around Christmas and kept turning the driver's side indicators permanently on overnight, thus flattening the battery.
phazed said:
Mine was fine for a few years then the dreaded hot start occured, problem was a lack of engine/earth cable!, New cable and cleaned and bolted the other earths, problem solved.
Funny thing is I paid for a starter O/H which seemed to work for a few weeks then problem reappeared, then found the earth problem.
HTH.
The new starter worked for a while because the whole system is a bit marginal (resistance/earthing wise).Funny thing is I paid for a starter O/H which seemed to work for a few weeks then problem reappeared, then found the earth problem.
HTH.
Any reduction in resistance, like a new fresh & more efficient starter will help for a while.
Goaty Bill said:
now for the further confusion; the first time mine exhibited this behaviour, the TVR dealer changed the starter motor, and the problem went away for several years (of very regular use).
And there you go again, another case where a new more efficient starter helped for a while, but as we can see it's not the cure.The truth is there are a number of causes for the hot start problem.
Sometimes it's the relay in the immobiliser playing up, sometimes it's a cumulative increase in resistance somewhere within the starter circuit, sometimes it's a bad earth.
Remember there are actually two circuits at play:
1) The low amp starter solenoid circuit (12v > ignition key > immobiliser relay > starter solenoid > earth)
2) The high amp starter motor circuit (battery > starter motor > earth)
If it's the low amp starter circuit then you'll see nothing/poor feed at the starter solenoid, so the high amp circuit simply will not be completed.
If it's the high amp starter circuit you could get a slow starter, or no starter at all.
Before you go replacing stuff, you need to test both circuits with a basic multimeter.
If you find the starter solenoid is not getting a feed or there's a big loss of amps/volts, it's highly likely the low amp circuit path is interrupted within the immobiliser.
Those relays inside the immobiliser are notorious for causing problems, Carl Baker made a living out of the problem.
Ask Carl about this and he'll explain why the relays have such a short life and or give so many starting problems in a TVR, & he'll tell you it's because TVR wired the immobiliser back to front.
In such cases a bypass or a new alarm system are your best options as the guilty relay is buried and potted within the immobiliser, making replacement of this faulty relay extremely difficult.
If you find the starter solenoid is engaging Ok, but the starter is not receiving sufficient amps on the high amp side you may find replacing the feeble 7ft battery to starter cable helps a lot.
At this point I would also be tempted to add an additional earth from the engine block directly to the battery negative terminal.
The moral of the story is to use a test meter to find where your problem truly sits.
Ask yourself this question:
"is the problem in the low amp starter solenoid circuit or the high amp starter motor circuit?"
Only a test meter will help answer the question conclusively, & the problem will only go away once you've addressed the area causing the problem.
For example the ModWise Hot Start kit (which is just a simple additional relay) will not give you a better earth at the starter motor & it doesn't solve that tired corroded old 7ft starter cable either.
It may however take a bit of load off the worn out relay within the immobiliser, for a short while anyway.
Of cause people with the Hot Start problem may have more that one issue, the immobiliser relay may be a bit sticky, the battery to starter cable may be corroded causing a high resistance, the starter mor itself may be getting a bit tired... it all adds up.
Or (by the sound of it) you may just have a bad earth.
For a belt & braces approach you could replace that old 7ft long starter cable, run an additional earth from the battery to the engine block & bypass or replace the very problematic immobiliser.
If you do complete the immobiliser bypass on the starter circuit, you must fit an separate relay to replace the starter relay inside the immobiliser that you've bypassed.
That's where the ModWise kit can come in handy, but only for those not confident with wiring in a relay.
However, ten minutes with a test meter will always be the fastest & cheapest way to victory.
My advise is locate the problem & replace/repair where necessary
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