Can't start the Chim...
Discussion
I think this is a progression of the suspected 'hot start' problem I encountered for the first time the other day.
Firstly, I have never had a warm start issue before. This started the other day when I fuelled-up and it declined to start (very, very slow cranking). After about 15 mins stationary it started, but cranked slowly to begin with.
The battery has done less than a 1000 miles and is a Varta AGM. It has also been tested. The alternator is also good and was replaced the same time as the battery.
Today I went to turn the Chim over to move it back up the drive a little. It wouldn't crank. Literally sounded as if it was trying, but just didn't have the will. I removed the battery and have checked all the cables and connections in the pax footwell. I even replaced thje battery clamps. I also jacked the car, and removed and cleaned the positive terminals connected to the starter solenoid and reconnected. The earth to the offside chassis is sound and still connected. The earth connected to the block near the oil pressure switch is bolted and firm. I have checked the 100Amp fuse and the large fuse in the pax footwell.
Prior to working on the car I had no start issues. So I'm wondering if my starter is knackered or if there's an earth I'm missing somewhere. I have a multi-meter but its standard and the only jump leads I have are fitted with an Anderson connector.
Well cheesed off now... between the starting issue and the PAS hose I've missed two glorious driving days. The driving/ tinkering ying and yang are way out of kilter...
Any ideas?
Firstly, I have never had a warm start issue before. This started the other day when I fuelled-up and it declined to start (very, very slow cranking). After about 15 mins stationary it started, but cranked slowly to begin with.
The battery has done less than a 1000 miles and is a Varta AGM. It has also been tested. The alternator is also good and was replaced the same time as the battery.
Today I went to turn the Chim over to move it back up the drive a little. It wouldn't crank. Literally sounded as if it was trying, but just didn't have the will. I removed the battery and have checked all the cables and connections in the pax footwell. I even replaced thje battery clamps. I also jacked the car, and removed and cleaned the positive terminals connected to the starter solenoid and reconnected. The earth to the offside chassis is sound and still connected. The earth connected to the block near the oil pressure switch is bolted and firm. I have checked the 100Amp fuse and the large fuse in the pax footwell.
Prior to working on the car I had no start issues. So I'm wondering if my starter is knackered or if there's an earth I'm missing somewhere. I have a multi-meter but its standard and the only jump leads I have are fitted with an Anderson connector.
Well cheesed off now... between the starting issue and the PAS hose I've missed two glorious driving days. The driving/ tinkering ying and yang are way out of kilter...
Any ideas?
The hot start issue is caused by TVR routeing the wiring through the immobiliser and using the relay in there to fire the circuit. The relay isn't powerful enough to do this and indeed was not meant to perform this task so over time it breaks down and then results in the issue.
The issue is resolved (hopefully) by inserting another relay into the circuit and taking the load off the immobiliser relay. In most cases that solves the issue but it may re-occur at a later date if the relay in the immobiliser has been damaged.
The issue is resolved (hopefully) by inserting another relay into the circuit and taking the load off the immobiliser relay. In most cases that solves the issue but it may re-occur at a later date if the relay in the immobiliser has been damaged.
Chris, actually take the 100 amp fuse out of the holder - it may be a hairline crack you cannot see. Or just change it anyway. I assume you mean the one under the car.... The one in the footwell is 80 amps on my car..
Your symptoms are 100 amp fuse. You have been running on battery if it is blown, which explains why a good battery is nearly flat.
Charge the battery overnight and see what happens tomorrow. If the battery works fine, but then cannot restart the car after 40 miles or so, then the car is definitely running on battery and not re-charging the battery, which points to alternator or 100 amp fuse
Your symptoms are 100 amp fuse. You have been running on battery if it is blown, which explains why a good battery is nearly flat.
Charge the battery overnight and see what happens tomorrow. If the battery works fine, but then cannot restart the car after 40 miles or so, then the car is definitely running on battery and not re-charging the battery, which points to alternator or 100 amp fuse
chris1972 said:
However, this morning, the car wouldn't start from cold. It was trying to cranks, but was very, very slow.
Is this still the immobiliser relay?
No...Is this still the immobiliser relay?
You either have a bad starter, a bad earth or a bad live feed to the starter.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
QBee said:
Chris, actually take the 100 amp fuse out of the holder - it may be a hairline crack you cannot see. Or just change it anyway. I assume you mean the one under the car.... The one in the footwell is 80 amps on my car..
Your symptoms are 100 amp fuse. You have been running on battery if it is blown, which explains why a good battery is nearly flat.
Charge the battery overnight and see what happens tomorrow. If the battery works fine, but then cannot restart the car after 40 miles or so, then the car is definitely running on battery and not re-charging the battery, which points to alternator or 100 amp fuse
Its definitely not the 100amp fuse. It has been checked and replaced. The symptoms of this would cause the battery light to remain on. The battery was tested by the 44 and has a good charge and in good condition. Chimp on Gas maybe on the money. I recall dropping a spanner onto the starter whilst doing the manifolds which caused a spark. 0'm wondering if this has finished it off?Your symptoms are 100 amp fuse. You have been running on battery if it is blown, which explains why a good battery is nearly flat.
Charge the battery overnight and see what happens tomorrow. If the battery works fine, but then cannot restart the car after 40 miles or so, then the car is definitely running on battery and not re-charging the battery, which points to alternator or 100 amp fuse
ChimpOnGas said:
chris1972 said:
However, this morning, the car wouldn't start from cold. It was trying to cranks, but was very, very slow.
Is this still the immobiliser relay?
No...Is this still the immobiliser relay?
You either have a bad starter, a bad earth or a bad live feed to the starter.
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
BUMP! 
Can anybody give me some definitive guidance, other than battery? Car electronics confuse the hell out of me
so I need it spelling out.
I've read about the various tests for the starter and meta immobiliser. As for relays, I haven't got a clue which is which, other than those on the main fuse board.
If we could assume that my battery is charged (760CCA AGM) and was tested as good by the AA.
The new battery and alternator have done about 1000 miles.
I have never had a hot start issue or any signs of a hot-start issue before.
The car has always cranked quickly.
I have checked the earth connection near the driver's side front wheel and the one on the engine block near the pressure switch.
I have also checked and replaced both battery terminal clamps and re-plugged the relays into the loom on the pax footwell.
The 100AMP fuse and the 80AMP fuse are intact.
I have done quite a lot of work to the car, but nothing specifically involving the electrics (other than reconnecting coil etc). It was off the road for four weeks.
The battery was out of the car for most of this time, however, I've had the battery sat in the car for six weeks without stating previously as it has never effected it.
I have cleaned and reconnected the three live cables on the starter solenoid and the spade connector.
The car started first time after I had done the work and several times after. No problems.
I took the car out the other day for the first time and it wouldn't start when warm. It tried to crank, but at first wouldn't. It gave some loud clicks from the starter. It eventually cranked and started. Cranking was very slow to begin with and gradually increased in speed until it fired. This happened once again during the day. Cranking returned 'closer' to normal when car was cooler.
The car now won't crank when cold. It literally groans.
Yesterday, I left the ignition key turned in the sprung position and cranking very slowly increased, but I didn't let it start.
I'm now not getting any clicks from the starter.
All the ignition lights and fuel pump come on as normal.
However, when I was removing my exhaust manifold, I dropped a spanner onto the starter which caused a few sparks before falling to the floor. I'm wondering if this has something to do with the problem.
I'm open to guidance please. As far as I understand for tests:
1. I need to run a jump lead from the battery positive to the starter. Where do I connect to the jump lead starter? To the positive terminal, where the three positive leads connect?
2. I need to run a jump lead from the battery negative to the engine block to check for a bad earth.
3. If the engine fires with either of the above, it will indicate a either bad earth or poorly live feed to the starter?
4. The alarm/ immobiliser resides under the dash. Sometimes a relay for the alarm gets stuck. I have no idea what this looks like or what I have to do.
I'd like to get the issue fixed. If I can do it myself, I'll learn something, but I'm running out of time to get it sorted.
Your advice and guidance is really appreciated!
Can anybody give me some definitive guidance, other than battery? Car electronics confuse the hell out of me
so I need it spelling out.I've read about the various tests for the starter and meta immobiliser. As for relays, I haven't got a clue which is which, other than those on the main fuse board.
If we could assume that my battery is charged (760CCA AGM) and was tested as good by the AA.
The new battery and alternator have done about 1000 miles.
I have never had a hot start issue or any signs of a hot-start issue before.
The car has always cranked quickly.
I have checked the earth connection near the driver's side front wheel and the one on the engine block near the pressure switch.
I have also checked and replaced both battery terminal clamps and re-plugged the relays into the loom on the pax footwell.
The 100AMP fuse and the 80AMP fuse are intact.
I have done quite a lot of work to the car, but nothing specifically involving the electrics (other than reconnecting coil etc). It was off the road for four weeks.
The battery was out of the car for most of this time, however, I've had the battery sat in the car for six weeks without stating previously as it has never effected it.
I have cleaned and reconnected the three live cables on the starter solenoid and the spade connector.
The car started first time after I had done the work and several times after. No problems.
I took the car out the other day for the first time and it wouldn't start when warm. It tried to crank, but at first wouldn't. It gave some loud clicks from the starter. It eventually cranked and started. Cranking was very slow to begin with and gradually increased in speed until it fired. This happened once again during the day. Cranking returned 'closer' to normal when car was cooler.
The car now won't crank when cold. It literally groans.
Yesterday, I left the ignition key turned in the sprung position and cranking very slowly increased, but I didn't let it start.
I'm now not getting any clicks from the starter.
All the ignition lights and fuel pump come on as normal.
However, when I was removing my exhaust manifold, I dropped a spanner onto the starter which caused a few sparks before falling to the floor. I'm wondering if this has something to do with the problem.
I'm open to guidance please. As far as I understand for tests:
1. I need to run a jump lead from the battery positive to the starter. Where do I connect to the jump lead starter? To the positive terminal, where the three positive leads connect?
2. I need to run a jump lead from the battery negative to the engine block to check for a bad earth.
3. If the engine fires with either of the above, it will indicate a either bad earth or poorly live feed to the starter?
4. The alarm/ immobiliser resides under the dash. Sometimes a relay for the alarm gets stuck. I have no idea what this looks like or what I have to do.
I'd like to get the issue fixed. If I can do it myself, I'll learn something, but I'm running out of time to get it sorted.
Your advice and guidance is really appreciated!
Edited by chris1972 on Tuesday 28th May 11:47
Do a voltage test on the red lead from battery to starter solenoid battery connection using a test light or multi meter if you have a good 12v there try from the solenoid to starter positive connections, most problems occur from bad or dirty connections or a lead breaking down internally
Chris, real old test, flick your headlights on (assuming you can shine them at something)then try and crank the starter, if the lights go really dim it would point to a couple of things, a low output on the battery although you say its been tested and ok, or starter probs drawing too much power, which could be a duff connection across the terminals within the solenoid or possibly a semi seized starter, either of which you wont be able to tell unless you take the starter off, you could eliminate the earth issue (if there is one) by taking a jump lead direct to the neg on the battery straight down to the starter body
HTH
Rich
HTH
Rich
Would have a guess at the starter motor itself, or more probably the starter motor solenoid that has seized.
Have a read of this thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
Some have removed the starter and cleaned and freed the solenoid.
First job would be to remove the starter, this way its easier to bench test it, and then go from there.
On my old S3 the terminal where the heavy duty cable is attatched had been overtightened and had turned within itself, inside the solenoid, and snapped internally.
I removed the starter and had it serviced and overhauled for about £30.00 so if it is a seized solenoid it can be repaired, or to save the hassle just renew the starter.
BENCH TEST IT FIRST THOUGH!
Have a read of this thread.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
Some have removed the starter and cleaned and freed the solenoid.
First job would be to remove the starter, this way its easier to bench test it, and then go from there.
On my old S3 the terminal where the heavy duty cable is attatched had been overtightened and had turned within itself, inside the solenoid, and snapped internally.
I removed the starter and had it serviced and overhauled for about £30.00 so if it is a seized solenoid it can be repaired, or to save the hassle just renew the starter.
BENCH TEST IT FIRST THOUGH!
I had a similar problem a few weeks ago and it turned out to be the battery needed charging.
I tried the headlight test and they only blinked when I turned the key, they didn't appear to dim.
I ran a positive lead straight from the battery and flashed it across the solenoid to check it was working OK to eliminate that problem.I then connected jump leads to a known good battery and hey presto!
Maybe I should have done that first! I also bought and fitted the "hot start kit" for good measure and will be fitting an additional earth lead direct from the battery to the engine in the near future.
I tried the headlight test and they only blinked when I turned the key, they didn't appear to dim.
I ran a positive lead straight from the battery and flashed it across the solenoid to check it was working OK to eliminate that problem.I then connected jump leads to a known good battery and hey presto!
Maybe I should have done that first! I also bought and fitted the "hot start kit" for good measure and will be fitting an additional earth lead direct from the battery to the engine in the near future.
My 5p worth,
If the headlamps remain bright while cranking – battery must be OK
Engine cranks slowly but solenoid does not click – proves the relays and immobiliser are OK
Can only be a faulty starter motor or lack of current reaching it.
My money is on a bad earth, likely to be the one in the off side front wheel arch behind the wheel. This has caused the same symptoms on mine from time to time. Clean up and refit the earth first, if still not working it is likely to a starter issue.
Good luck
PurpleV8
If the headlamps remain bright while cranking – battery must be OK
Engine cranks slowly but solenoid does not click – proves the relays and immobiliser are OK
Can only be a faulty starter motor or lack of current reaching it.
My money is on a bad earth, likely to be the one in the off side front wheel arch behind the wheel. This has caused the same symptoms on mine from time to time. Clean up and refit the earth first, if still not working it is likely to a starter issue.
Good luck
PurpleV8
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