Chassis Powder Coat
Discussion
I'm interested to know more about the quality of chassis powder coating on Chims - different colours, in-house or subcontract, dates, etc..
I am sure I've seen comments that the silver coloured ones were all subcontracted and are considered better quality than the white ones that followed as the first of these were coated in house, with less quality control?
What about the later white ones that were subcontracted?
I have a '98 in white which I think is meant to be one of the worst years but thankfully inspection reports on mine have been good thus far.
Any help much appreciated as I am considering a 2001 model.
Many thanks,
Jim
I am sure I've seen comments that the silver coloured ones were all subcontracted and are considered better quality than the white ones that followed as the first of these were coated in house, with less quality control?
What about the later white ones that were subcontracted?
I have a '98 in white which I think is meant to be one of the worst years but thankfully inspection reports on mine have been good thus far.
Any help much appreciated as I am considering a 2001 model.
Many thanks,
Jim
semaj said:
I'm interested to know more about the quality of chassis powder coating on Chims - different colours, in-house or subcontract, dates, etc..
I am sure I've seen comments that the silver coloured ones were all subcontracted and are considered better quality than the white ones that followed as the first of these were coated in house, with less quality control?
What about the later white ones that were subcontracted?
I have a '98 in white which I think is meant to be one of the worst years but thankfully inspection reports on mine have been good thus far.
Any help much appreciated as I am considering a 2001 model.
Many thanks,
Jim
mine's a 99.....just had to have new outriggersI am sure I've seen comments that the silver coloured ones were all subcontracted and are considered better quality than the white ones that followed as the first of these were coated in house, with less quality control?
What about the later white ones that were subcontracted?
I have a '98 in white which I think is meant to be one of the worst years but thankfully inspection reports on mine have been good thus far.
Any help much appreciated as I am considering a 2001 model.
Many thanks,
Jim
'98 onwards were in-house coating. Those cars suffer from flaking of the outriggers, hangers and wishbones. The centre sections are mostly okay. The coating doesn't have strong adhesion so physical impact by stones, etc. being flicked up by the tyres causes the coating to break away and subsequent water ingress does the rest. Mine's just had new outriggers, hangers and wishbones, the centre section coating was not compromised beyond what you would find with a close inspection of any untreated TVR chassis, simple local treatment was all that it required.
sheel said:
Mines 2000, 53000miles chassis is very very very good, gave the wishbones etc a clean over the w/e they are original and almost unmarked in cream, can only assume the previous owner never took it out in bad weather........lucky me!!
Rich
+1. My outriggers were inspected and refurbed by the dealer I bought it from last year. The rest of it is spot on. Mine had 56k on it when I bought it. Rich
Another '99 car here, and I bought it in 2010 knowing the outriggers needed doing. They particularly go in the corners, where they often rust through and allow water in to rot the rest of the outrigger from the inside. Mine were at the holed-in-the-corner stage, and would have rotted away by now if I hadn't had them done. In fact, I decided to go the whole hog and get the chassis completely stripped, zinc primed and re-powdered; I don't regret that decision!
It's reassuring to hear that decent quality powder coating can last a long time. Hopefully mine will go on for many years.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
It's reassuring to hear that decent quality powder coating can last a long time. Hopefully mine will go on for many years.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Wednesday 29th May 07:52
Trevor450 said:
sheel said:
Mines 2000, 53000miles chassis is very very very good, gave the wishbones etc a clean over the w/e they are original and almost unmarked in cream, can only assume the previous owner never took it out in bad weather........lucky me!!
Rich
+1. My outriggers were inspected and refurbed by the dealer I bought it from last year. The rest of it is spot on. Mine had 56k on it when I bought it. Rich
The change from the better silver/grey coating to the flakey white happened in early 1997.
What I've been told by ex-TVR employees this was when TVR brought the process in house.
Apparently TVR purchased the equipment & oven from a failed double glazing company that was using it to coat their aluminium window frames.
That's why the in house coated chassis were white.
There's a lot of speculation about why the coating failed so prematurely, leaving the bare chassis exposed to the elements & not baking the coating at a high enough temperature were certainly contributing factors.
But as I understand it, the biggest difference between the silver/ grey & the white in house coating was that the silver/grey chassis were zinc phosphate primed prior to being powder coated.
But that doesn't mean the silver/grey chassis last for ever, the coating still seems to suffer around all the welds, clearly they didn't prep & degrease the chassis properly.
But this browning around the welds on the silver/grey chassis seldom becomes critical unlike the effects of the flaking white coating.
It should be noted that while the cars with the silver/grey are older, they typically outlast the younger white chassis cars by many years before things become critical.
A silver/grey chassis Chimaera may well go for 15 - 20 years before needing attention, where as you'd be lucky to get 10 years out of the white chassis before the coating starts to critically fail.
So a Chimaera built in late 96 may well last to 2016 before needing attention, but an early 97 car will likely need new outriggers by 2010, the early chassis outliving the later white one by as much as seven years.
There will alway be exceptions, but this seems to be the kind of extra life the far better (but by no means perfect) silver/grey chassis gives you.
Towards the very end of Chimaera production TVR seemed to improve the coating, & later models do seem to have a more durable chassis finish.
As Chims & Griffs all approach the 20 year mark, the silver/grey vs white chassis debate start to become academic.
By this time, it doesn't matter what coating the chassis got, it's highly likely it will need attention.
This really shouldn't put people off buying one of these cars, it's not like other cars of a similar age won't be suffering from corrosion that will require significant welding.
I've seen Porkers from the mid 90's that need significant welding, with a monocoque car this will invariably involve patching.
At least with a TVR you lift the corrosion proof fiberglass body, shot blast the chassis, weld in new tubes, hot zinc spray, zinc phosphor prime & powder coat properly.
That's the whole job done properly by a professional like Southways for £5k, and it'll easily last 30 - 40 years.
Your patched up Porker will be unlikely to last another 5 years before it needs yet another patch, and you'll be chasing the corrosion like that for ever more until it looks like a patchwork quilt.
If you wanted to strip that Porker to a bare shell, dip & e-coat it so it will last like your restored TVR chassis the bill will be at leat double.
That makes a TVR chassis restoration look cheap, another reason why our cars make such a practical classic.
What I've been told by ex-TVR employees this was when TVR brought the process in house.
Apparently TVR purchased the equipment & oven from a failed double glazing company that was using it to coat their aluminium window frames.
That's why the in house coated chassis were white.
There's a lot of speculation about why the coating failed so prematurely, leaving the bare chassis exposed to the elements & not baking the coating at a high enough temperature were certainly contributing factors.
But as I understand it, the biggest difference between the silver/ grey & the white in house coating was that the silver/grey chassis were zinc phosphate primed prior to being powder coated.
But that doesn't mean the silver/grey chassis last for ever, the coating still seems to suffer around all the welds, clearly they didn't prep & degrease the chassis properly.
But this browning around the welds on the silver/grey chassis seldom becomes critical unlike the effects of the flaking white coating.
It should be noted that while the cars with the silver/grey are older, they typically outlast the younger white chassis cars by many years before things become critical.
A silver/grey chassis Chimaera may well go for 15 - 20 years before needing attention, where as you'd be lucky to get 10 years out of the white chassis before the coating starts to critically fail.
So a Chimaera built in late 96 may well last to 2016 before needing attention, but an early 97 car will likely need new outriggers by 2010, the early chassis outliving the later white one by as much as seven years.
There will alway be exceptions, but this seems to be the kind of extra life the far better (but by no means perfect) silver/grey chassis gives you.
Towards the very end of Chimaera production TVR seemed to improve the coating, & later models do seem to have a more durable chassis finish.
As Chims & Griffs all approach the 20 year mark, the silver/grey vs white chassis debate start to become academic.
By this time, it doesn't matter what coating the chassis got, it's highly likely it will need attention.
This really shouldn't put people off buying one of these cars, it's not like other cars of a similar age won't be suffering from corrosion that will require significant welding.
I've seen Porkers from the mid 90's that need significant welding, with a monocoque car this will invariably involve patching.
At least with a TVR you lift the corrosion proof fiberglass body, shot blast the chassis, weld in new tubes, hot zinc spray, zinc phosphor prime & powder coat properly.
That's the whole job done properly by a professional like Southways for £5k, and it'll easily last 30 - 40 years.
Your patched up Porker will be unlikely to last another 5 years before it needs yet another patch, and you'll be chasing the corrosion like that for ever more until it looks like a patchwork quilt.
If you wanted to strip that Porker to a bare shell, dip & e-coat it so it will last like your restored TVR chassis the bill will be at leat double.
That makes a TVR chassis restoration look cheap, another reason why our cars make such a practical classic.
Mine is a late 1996 chassis was silver powder coat and needed new outriggers in 2010.
I dont follow with the argument of good or bad years for powder coating.
In my opinion it was all bad whatever the year, as all the welds on my chassis, had surface corosion which would suggest that after welding the chassis was not cleaned or prepped in any way before powdercoat.
Each car and its chassis should be thoroughly inspected. Some will be original and in excellent condition, some will be rotted and need work, irespecvtive of its year of manufacture.
Thorough inspection is the answer to the O.P whatever the year.
I dont follow with the argument of good or bad years for powder coating.
In my opinion it was all bad whatever the year, as all the welds on my chassis, had surface corosion which would suggest that after welding the chassis was not cleaned or prepped in any way before powdercoat.
Each car and its chassis should be thoroughly inspected. Some will be original and in excellent condition, some will be rotted and need work, irespecvtive of its year of manufacture.
Thorough inspection is the answer to the O.P whatever the year.
Mine is a 99 car with 26k miles, white chassis. I have owned it for 11 years, perfect chassis. Although I did spend a long time preping and painting a few years back and check every year.
I believe it depends how it has been looked after / driven rather than what colour or when coated that makes a difference to how long the chassis lasts.
I remember looking at a few cars where the outrigger behind the wheel was full of dirt. If previous owners had cleaned these area regulary the chassis would last longer.
I believe it depends how it has been looked after / driven rather than what colour or when coated that makes a difference to how long the chassis lasts.
I remember looking at a few cars where the outrigger behind the wheel was full of dirt. If previous owners had cleaned these area regulary the chassis would last longer.
I've never seen a silver/grey chassis peel like the early white ones, they really were very bad.
That's not to say you can't make the white coating last a reasonable amount of time if you pamper it.
Or a silver/grey one won't fail early if its had a hard life.
However, as I've already stated all this is pretty academic given the age of our cars.
Any TVR chassis (no matter what finish it got) that makes 20 years without some chassis work, has either been very pampered or the owner is in denial over its true condition.
You'll never really know how far gone your chassis is without lifting the body, & you can't make a proper job of restoring the chassis without lifting the body.
I still say these are cheap straightforward cars to restore when compared with a steel monocoque.
A Chimaera or Griffith is now much like a seperate chassis Triumph from the 1960's that needed a body off restoration in the late 80's or early 90's.
The big difference is with the TVR is you don't have all the body corrosion to deal with that the steel bodied Triumphs suffered from.
Seperate chassis Triumphs were always seen as a relatively straightforward car to restore, in many respects a Chim or Griff is even easier.
Get your TVR chassis restored properly for £5k & you can enjoy the car without worry of corrosion for 30 years to come, or look at it another way that's just £166.00 a year to get 30 more years out of the chassis.
Bargain!
That's not to say you can't make the white coating last a reasonable amount of time if you pamper it.
Or a silver/grey one won't fail early if its had a hard life.
However, as I've already stated all this is pretty academic given the age of our cars.
Any TVR chassis (no matter what finish it got) that makes 20 years without some chassis work, has either been very pampered or the owner is in denial over its true condition.
You'll never really know how far gone your chassis is without lifting the body, & you can't make a proper job of restoring the chassis without lifting the body.
I still say these are cheap straightforward cars to restore when compared with a steel monocoque.
A Chimaera or Griffith is now much like a seperate chassis Triumph from the 1960's that needed a body off restoration in the late 80's or early 90's.
The big difference is with the TVR is you don't have all the body corrosion to deal with that the steel bodied Triumphs suffered from.
Seperate chassis Triumphs were always seen as a relatively straightforward car to restore, in many respects a Chim or Griff is even easier.
Get your TVR chassis restored properly for £5k & you can enjoy the car without worry of corrosion for 30 years to come, or look at it another way that's just £166.00 a year to get 30 more years out of the chassis.
Bargain!
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 29th May 14:39
ChimpOnGas said:
Lots of interesting stuff
How do you justify the 30 or 40 years? I'd say 20 years is a good prediction, I can't see powder coating lasting much longer in such a hostile environment.The smart money says:
>> if you're buying then look for one with a body off resto, if you own it then you will never recoup the £5k starting price for a body off job, bearing in mind that there are always extras to pay for and most body off jobs end up nearer £7k.
>> if you own one then paying £2 to 2.5k to replace the 'beyond repair' hangers, outriggers & wishbones then KurRust & POR the centre frame makes better financial sense.
One thing that if often forgotten is that this is a chassis, it doesn't need to look pretty, it just needs to be mechanically capable of doing its job and have adequate protection to retain that ability
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