Question about suspension, shocks and springs
Discussion
Right, here's the situation; my car is set up with Gaz Golds (about 3 years old) with standard 16/15 wheels at the recommended ride height.
Handling wise I'm fairly happy with the set up, it feels tight and accurate and on a good road it's pretty good - could do with aligning again I'm sure but generally the handling and cornering is fine.
Ride quality is another matter, it bordering on dire. I've varied the settings on the shocks and if they're too soft it bottoms out on dips and ridges and is up and down like a pogo stick - more so on a rapidly undulating road. Too firm and going over bumps it feels like it's skipping over them, almost like the individual wheel has lost full contact with the road surface and is now almost airborne. It's horrible.
This surely can't be a case of 'They all do that, Sir'? I can't seem to find a middle ground, it's either too firm and skittish over bumps or too soft and is like a really uncomfortable pogo stick - bouncy! So am I asking too much for a 20 year old design to be able to ride the bumps, dips and undulations without sagging so far in the dips that it bottoms out and being so firm that it skips over the bumps?
Would stiffer spring springs help? I'm seriously getting fed up of the ride quality at the moment as I can't use most of the car's power on a lot of the roads around me and it inspires zero confidence on anything but the smoothest roads.
Handling wise I'm fairly happy with the set up, it feels tight and accurate and on a good road it's pretty good - could do with aligning again I'm sure but generally the handling and cornering is fine.
Ride quality is another matter, it bordering on dire. I've varied the settings on the shocks and if they're too soft it bottoms out on dips and ridges and is up and down like a pogo stick - more so on a rapidly undulating road. Too firm and going over bumps it feels like it's skipping over them, almost like the individual wheel has lost full contact with the road surface and is now almost airborne. It's horrible.
This surely can't be a case of 'They all do that, Sir'? I can't seem to find a middle ground, it's either too firm and skittish over bumps or too soft and is like a really uncomfortable pogo stick - bouncy! So am I asking too much for a 20 year old design to be able to ride the bumps, dips and undulations without sagging so far in the dips that it bottoms out and being so firm that it skips over the bumps?
Would stiffer spring springs help? I'm seriously getting fed up of the ride quality at the moment as I can't use most of the car's power on a lot of the roads around me and it inspires zero confidence on anything but the smoothest roads.
simonej said:
Right, here's the situation; my car is set up with Gaz Golds (about 3 years old) with standard 16/15 wheels at the recommended ride height.
Handling wise I'm fairly happy with the set up, it feels tight and accurate and on a good road it's pretty good - could do with aligning again I'm sure but generally the handling and cornering is fine.
Ride quality is another matter, it bordering on dire. I've varied the settings on the shocks and if they're too soft it bottoms out on dips and ridges and is up and down like a pogo stick - more so on a rapidly undulating road. Too firm and going over bumps it feels like it's skipping over them, almost like the individual wheel has lost full contact with the road surface and is now almost airborne. It's horrible.
This surely can't be a case of 'They all do that, Sir'? I can't seem to find a middle ground, it's either too firm and skittish over bumps or too soft and is like a really uncomfortable pogo stick - bouncy! So am I asking too much for a 20 year old design to be able to ride the bumps, dips and undulations without sagging so far in the dips that it bottoms out and being so firm that it skips over the bumps?
Would stiffer spring springs help? I'm seriously getting fed up of the ride quality at the moment as I can't use most of the car's power on a lot of the roads around me and it inspires zero confidence on anything but the smoothest roads.
I exactly had the same problem ! ether to soft and bouncy or to harsh ,all those settings and you can`t use them..Handling wise I'm fairly happy with the set up, it feels tight and accurate and on a good road it's pretty good - could do with aligning again I'm sure but generally the handling and cornering is fine.
Ride quality is another matter, it bordering on dire. I've varied the settings on the shocks and if they're too soft it bottoms out on dips and ridges and is up and down like a pogo stick - more so on a rapidly undulating road. Too firm and going over bumps it feels like it's skipping over them, almost like the individual wheel has lost full contact with the road surface and is now almost airborne. It's horrible.
This surely can't be a case of 'They all do that, Sir'? I can't seem to find a middle ground, it's either too firm and skittish over bumps or too soft and is like a really uncomfortable pogo stick - bouncy! So am I asking too much for a 20 year old design to be able to ride the bumps, dips and undulations without sagging so far in the dips that it bottoms out and being so firm that it skips over the bumps?
Would stiffer spring springs help? I'm seriously getting fed up of the ride quality at the moment as I can't use most of the car's power on a lot of the roads around me and it inspires zero confidence on anything but the smoothest roads.
Get rid and go for something else.
Russell Mc said:
What spring rates?
Standard Gaz, whatever that may be. They've always felt too soft and never very well controlled.I've given thought to selling up and going for a Tamora or T350 but every time I drive the car the noise just pulls me back! So do I spend the cash and go with Nitrons or save the money and put it towards a second TVR, keeping the Chimaera for bumbling about on warm Summer evenings?
JFReturns said:
GAZ will refurb them for a small amount, might be worth doing. You could spend more on NITRONS or GAZ monotubes or whatever, but they will require servicing too. I would go back to original Bilsteins if I were you!
which will need servicing. or you can just let the damper deteriorate like most people do and not have the servicing expense. horses for courses.spitfire4v8 said:
JFReturns said:
GAZ will refurb them for a small amount, might be worth doing. You could spend more on NITRONS or GAZ monotubes or whatever, but they will require servicing too. I would go back to original Bilsteins if I were you!
which will need servicing. or you can just let the damper deteriorate like most people do and not have the servicing expense. horses for courses.
Too true!I had a similar issue when I had new Protechs fitted.
It turned out to be tyre pressure.
I always ran my SO2 and SO3 tyres much softer than recommended, after much personal experimentation.
It just seemed to grip better, and be a bit more progressive forgiving.
Having the tyres changed to Toyos, they needed several lbs more pressure owing (as 'everyone' says) to the softer sidewalls.
From Holy s
t, to great with the addition of about 3lbs of air.
It turned out to be tyre pressure.
I always ran my SO2 and SO3 tyres much softer than recommended, after much personal experimentation.
It just seemed to grip better, and be a bit more progressive forgiving.
Having the tyres changed to Toyos, they needed several lbs more pressure owing (as 'everyone' says) to the softer sidewalls.
From Holy s
t, to great with the addition of about 3lbs of air.JFReturns said:
Indeed, but the point is they work well for road use. Nice and comfortable which is a big appeal of the Chim IMO.
Comfortable is what I want! It goes round corners fast enough for what I need but the ride is just too uncomfortable - not in the same way an Audi S3 shakes your teeth loose (which i dont actually mind) but in the motion sickness caused by all the pogoing up and down! It has bottomed out twice recently on dips in the road.The tyres are Toyos so maybe I'll slacken off the dampers and up the tyre pressures.
I've had a mess around with the settings and settled on 23/23 (out of the 30 clicks) being the best option and increased the tyre pressures to 26F and 24R. It goes over the bumps and dips acceptably but it still has a problem with traction over bumps.
Basically over bumps at high speed it feels as though the rear wheels are almost airborne (obviously they're not but it feels like momentarily there's very little weight pressing down on to the road - if that makes sense?). Is this just the limitation of the shock absorbers (ie. they're not very good) or the limitation of the car and suspension design?
Basically over bumps at high speed it feels as though the rear wheels are almost airborne (obviously they're not but it feels like momentarily there's very little weight pressing down on to the road - if that makes sense?). Is this just the limitation of the shock absorbers (ie. they're not very good) or the limitation of the car and suspension design?
spitfire4v8 said:
It sounds like classic Gaz to me .. the compression resistance ramps up too aggressively on high speed piston movements, but on slow speed piston movements there's way too little resistance. You won't cure it unless you change dampers to something else.
What I was going to say... A Gaz trait, due to damper design.You won't believe what a difference a quality damper makes!
simonej said:
Comfortable is what I want! It goes round corners fast enough for what I need but the ride is just too uncomfortable - not in the same way an Audi S3 shakes your teeth loose (which i dont actually mind) but in the motion sickness caused by all the pogoing up and down! It has bottomed out twice recently on dips in the road.
The tyres are Toyos so maybe I'll slacken off the dampers and up the tyre pressures.
When I first fitted my Gaz Gold Pros I had the same issue, it felt to me like the dampers were fighting the springs and losing thus delivering a scratchy jarring bobbing effect.The tyres are Toyos so maybe I'll slacken off the dampers and up the tyre pressures.
But after 3,000 miles everything settled down nicely, the bobbing disappeared and the ride became more than satisfactory.
Regarding tyre choice, it's worth remembering most modern tyres are designed for cars weighing almost half a tonne more than a TVR, this has a considerable impact on ride quality in a very light car like a Chimaera.
I've recently made further improvements to the ride quality on my Chim by replacing the Goodyear Eagle GSD3s with Uniroyal Rainsport 2s.
The Rainsports are known to have softer sidewalls than most, which can be a good thing on such a light car.
I also went with the 149 mph speed rated "V" which is also slightly softer on the sidewall than the higher speed rated Rainsports.
I then went up one profile on the rears, so it looks like this:
Rears were: Goodyear Eagle GSD3 - 225/50 R16 92Y
Replaced with: Uniroyal RainSport 2 - 225/55 R16 95V
Fronts were: Goodyear Eagle GSD3 - 205/50 R16 87Y
Replaced with: Uniroyal RainSport 2 - 205/50 R16 87V
Ok so I've got a set of 16" rear wheels on the front just like the last Chims & Griffith SE, but that just makes tyre choice a whole heap easier.
Although my new RainSport rears actually have a slightly higher load rating of 60kgs the additional pneumatic suspension effect of the higher profile, the softer sidewalls & the fact I chose a lower speed rating really seems to have made a genuine improvement to comfort & ride quality.
And at no loss of corning grip on the road.
Selecting the right tyres on any car can make a massive difference to the way it drives, but on a light car like a TVR it seems to be even more important.
At this point I'll say the nastiest riding Chimaera I ever drove was on bigger rims with low profile tyres & standard Billies, the wheels seemed to crash & thump into any slight road imperfection, horrible!
In my opinion there's nothing wrong with the Gaz Gold Pros fitted to my car now the springs have settled, the handling is very good & with the right tyre choice that compliments the suspension & the wight of the car the ride comfort is excellent too.
ChimpOnGas: thanks for the comprehensive reply regarding the tyres. When I went from SO2 Bridgestones to the softer Toyos there was an instant increase in comfort.
However, it's not strictly comfort I'm talking about here - not in the sense of it being an overly firm ride at least. It doesn't crash over potholes and on a good road it's fine. My issue is with the pogoing effect of the shock and spring combination, there's not enough play in tyres to cause me to bounce around like I'm sitting in a tractor seat. They just don't seem to respond to the road surface in the correct way. Maybe it's because the roads in Yorkshire are often utterly crap but I've been driving a Z4M recently and whilst the suspension is very firm it does feel controlled at least.
I think I either need to get it to someone who knows what they're doing with Nitrons or just accept that it's not a car that's fast from A to B on anything other than smooth roads.
However, it's not strictly comfort I'm talking about here - not in the sense of it being an overly firm ride at least. It doesn't crash over potholes and on a good road it's fine. My issue is with the pogoing effect of the shock and spring combination, there's not enough play in tyres to cause me to bounce around like I'm sitting in a tractor seat. They just don't seem to respond to the road surface in the correct way. Maybe it's because the roads in Yorkshire are often utterly crap but I've been driving a Z4M recently and whilst the suspension is very firm it does feel controlled at least.
I think I either need to get it to someone who knows what they're doing with Nitrons or just accept that it's not a car that's fast from A to B on anything other than smooth roads.
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