Starter motor not turning over, but not flat battery

[andyg1]

Guys,

My Chimaera has been sat for about 10 days without me using it. Yesterday I got in it to move it and it wouldn't start. I don't think it is a flat battery - all the windows, radio, boot etc work. It's not the immobiliser because the you can hear the fuel pump start, which doesn't happen if the immobiliser is on.

The starter motor doesn't even try and turn over. I've had flat batteries on cars before and you at least get a couple of pathetic turns out of the motor. Does this sound like a flat battery or something else? Any tips? - either to eliminate the variables to find the root cause or to out right solve the problem.

Thanks

PS I've never had start motor problems with this car before. It always starts first time and I've had it sat for longer than 10 days before without problems...

[ukdj]

I believe the immobiliser has two circuits and could still therefore be the fault if the starter circuit/immobiliser relay is at fault. when you turn the key does the starter solenoid click ?

There are lots of threads on "hot start" issues covering the usual starter motor problems, the basics of these suggest :-

have you checked that the (small) + wire to the starter solenoid (not big supply cable) is live when the key is turned and what voltage if any you are getting?

have you tried putting a jump lead from the - terminal of the battery to the engine to prove it is not an earthing issue? or likewise a jump lead from the battery + terminal to the starter main supply to prove it is not a duff supply cable?

Hope these tips point you in the right direction

ukdj

[andyg1]

Thanks for the quick reply.

It's definitely not the battery because we just tried to jump it.

There is no "click" from the start motor so that suggests it's not getting any power right? I don't have a volt meter to test any connections.

I did consider the hot start issue but I've had the car since October and haven't had any instances of that occurring, hot or cold. As I said, it's always started when I've needed it to.

This is out of the blue. The only thing that I can say has been different is the warm, dry weather (the car is out on the kerb). This is the longest I've known it not rain for the last three years and seeing as I've only had the car for 8 months it's never experienced these conditions!!

[ClausB]

It could be the immobiliser, because there are three relais: one for the fuel pump, one for the ignition and one for the starter.

On my chim 450 the relais for the starter inside the immobiliser failed with exactly the symptoms you describe. Although it sounds odd: try to hit the dashboard on the passenger side from below while you hold the key to start.

Claus

[bsdnazz]

My Chim had a similar but intermittent starting problem (hot or cold) that was eventually diagnosed as a faulty immobiliser. There are indeed two relays in the immobiliser - one each for the fuel pump and the starter motor - and the starter motor can fail. This means the fuel pump primes but the engine does not turn over.

Trial and error plus a lot of frustration lead me to find that bashing the passenger dash while holding the ignition key in the start position would soon start the car. The immobiliser is in the dash and I think thee bashing was enough to encourage the relay into doing enough to allow the engine to start!

A trip down to Carl Baker and my immobiliser was replaced and the problem was fixed.

N.B Is Carl Baker at http://www.tvruk.tv/ still in busines? I heard he'd moved to the continent.

[andyg1]

The advice of "smacking the dashboard as you turn the key" sounds ridiculous. But ridiculous is what you get with these cars.... and it worked!! That's hilarious. Thanks so much, both of you. At least it's working now. How long that remains a fix I'll wait and see.

I could write a book about the ups and downs of owning this car...

[QBee]

Carl is now in't continent. South west Frogland to be precise. He is living in a git. And offering B&B. So if you can start the car and fancy a holiday while the car is having its alarm fixed, then he's your man. A new alarm system is a 10 hour job for Carl

[ClausB]

Ha, great that it worked!

This trick helped with my chim for a couple of times, but not for long. After maybe 10x it wouldn't start anyway, so I had to bypass the starter-relais in the immobiliser.

Claus

[andyg1]

Just had a £480 quote to replace this knackered immobiliser with a Toad alarm/immobiliser. This car is killing me!

[s p a c e m a n]

Thats a bit pricey, I think they're just hedging their bets on how long it will take. The box is easy to find, pull it out and have a look, if is just plug and play then maybe buying yourself a new unit and just replacing the box is a cheap answer.

http://abacuscaralarms.co.uk/alarmshop/index.php?a...

[Harrytsg]

Its worth giving Sam @ abacus a ring, albeit in Carls absence, I replaced my alarm, sounder and immobiliser with his help and service last year.

[Aussie John]

Put in a relay to operate the solenoid and have it switched from the ignition switch. This bypasses the inner relay in the alarm/immobiliser but still leaves other circuits ok. Hope this makes sense; it will only cost a few pounds to do so no big cost.

[Harrytsg]

Aussie John said:

Put in a relay to operate the solenoid and have it switched from the ignition switch. This bypasses the inner relay in the alarm/immobiliser but still leaves other circuits ok. Hope this makes sense; it will only cost a few pounds to do so no big cost.

Does this invalidate your insurance?

I know that the Thatcham debate has been had on here, but bypassing the immobiliser (permanently) surely negates the standard set up, on which your insurance is based?

[chris1972]

Have you tested the starter motor?

ChimpOnGas and Phazed suggested a few tests for me that can be found in one of my recent posts 'Can't start the Chim'. I'm working via a Blackberry, so can't link you to it, but follow my profile 'topics started' and you should find it. Lots of useful info.

[Sardonicus]

Harrytsg said:

Does this invalidate your insurance?

I know that the Thatcham debate has been had on here, but bypassing the immobiliser (permanently) surely negates the standard set up, on which your insurance is based?

It don't need to you can keep the starter circuit break but by fitting the Hotstart-Mod you remove the load from the Meta internal relay thus prolonging its life

[Aussie John]

I would have thought that a lot of the older alarms wouldn't have Thatcham approval anyway. The 2 other circuits aren't affected so the car is still protected; would anyone know what the added relay is used for? it would be pretty hard for anyone to easily figure out.

[ukdj]

do you mean the other relay in the meta alarm or the relay from the hot start mod ?

I believe the meta has two relays one for the starter solenoid and another to cut the fuel pump.

The hot start relay provides a feed direct from the battery to the starter solenoid, this relay is switched by the output from the meta starter relay, thus reducing the load on the meta relay as it is only switching the hot start relay and not the starter solenoid itself.

wired correctly this mod can help with starting issues and still keep the immobiliser function.

Regards

ukdj

Edited by ukdj on Thursday 13th June 09:59

[QBee]

Sardonicus said:

t don't need to you can keep the starter circuit break but by fitting the Hotstart-Mod you remove the load from the Meta internal relay thus prolonging its life

In my case it gave me an extra 8 months before the immobiliser called time and I had to have a new one. It was flattening the battery overnight by putting the driver's side indicators on full time overnight.

[Aussie John]

If the relay in the alarm is nearly bu**gered then wiring in as a hot start relay may only buy you some time, if you wire to remove it from the system then problem hopefully solved.

[Sardonicus]

Aussie John said:

If the relay in the alarm is nearly bu**gered then wiring in as a hot start relay may only buy you some time, if you wire to remove it from the system then problem hopefully solved.

True ..... but if you do it before you get bother then you may never see a Meta module fault this is how I have my Cobra CAT1 wired 7 years + no bother circuits cut as intended