Manifold removal
Discussion
My near side manifold is blowing and tick, tick, ticking all the time. I've checked and it's not the gasket so I assume it's cracked where the 4 branches combine.
Is removing and refitting the manifold a job that should be attempted by a monkey like me? I've read its a pig of a job. I'll then get a mate to cut the manifold open and weld the branches up.
As it's half term next week I'm going down to West Wales with the family where I will have use of my wife's uncles workshop. I am planning on changing all discs and pads there but am now contemplating the manifold as well.
If I can get it on, is it just as easy (difficult) to get back on? What's the likelihood of shearing a bolt on the head? Any tools that will help (I've seen a weird open ended spanner at circa 90 degrees on another thread)? What bolts/gaskets are best to refit?
Any advice most welcome even if it's stop being a fool and book it into a garage.
Thanks.
Is removing and refitting the manifold a job that should be attempted by a monkey like me? I've read its a pig of a job. I'll then get a mate to cut the manifold open and weld the branches up.
As it's half term next week I'm going down to West Wales with the family where I will have use of my wife's uncles workshop. I am planning on changing all discs and pads there but am now contemplating the manifold as well.
If I can get it on, is it just as easy (difficult) to get back on? What's the likelihood of shearing a bolt on the head? Any tools that will help (I've seen a weird open ended spanner at circa 90 degrees on another thread)? What bolts/gaskets are best to refit?
Any advice most welcome even if it's stop being a fool and book it into a garage.
Thanks.
An alternative option which may not be to everyone's taste but does work when done properly although I am only 7000miles into proving it to myself, is to use fire cement.
Having seen this option sometime back on this site and mine beginning to blow I decide well what the heck I'll give it a go.
I used a fire cement suitable for steel work and pipes graded to 1250 degC and designed to flex slightly with the steelwork. (http://www.vitcas.com/vitcas-premium-fire-cement)
Follow the instructions carefully and place a short tube on the end of the nozzle. Carefully slide tube inbetween the four pipes almost to the end and squeeze. Withdraw slowly filling the space and allowing the cement to ooze between the pipes. Keep everything tidy and gradually bring the heat up in the manifold by turning over 20 seconds then a little more and so on until nice and hot. Leave overnight and voila 7000 miles of happy motoring...no tick tick tick.
Took about 2 minutes actual work and £12.50!
Having seen this option sometime back on this site and mine beginning to blow I decide well what the heck I'll give it a go.
I used a fire cement suitable for steel work and pipes graded to 1250 degC and designed to flex slightly with the steelwork. (http://www.vitcas.com/vitcas-premium-fire-cement)
Follow the instructions carefully and place a short tube on the end of the nozzle. Carefully slide tube inbetween the four pipes almost to the end and squeeze. Withdraw slowly filling the space and allowing the cement to ooze between the pipes. Keep everything tidy and gradually bring the heat up in the manifold by turning over 20 seconds then a little more and so on until nice and hot. Leave overnight and voila 7000 miles of happy motoring...no tick tick tick.
Took about 2 minutes actual work and £12.50!
One trick some people do is make the lower holes into slots while they have the manifold off. Then you can insert the lower bolts before you put the manifold back on, slotting the manifold onto them. I tried tightening the lower bolts when mine were last off and gave up after one bolt. Left it to the experts.
A900ss said:
My near side manifold is blowing and tick, tick, ticking all the time. I've checked and it's not the gasket so I assume it's cracked where the 4 branches combine.
Is removing and refitting the manifold a job that should be attempted by a monkey like me? I've read its a pig of a job. I'll then get a mate to cut the manifold open and weld the branches up.
As it's half term next week I'm going down to West Wales with the family where I will have use of my wife's uncles workshop. I am planning on changing all discs and pads there but am now contemplating the manifold as well.
If I can get it on, is it just as easy (difficult) to get back on? What's the likelihood of shearing a bolt on the head? Any tools that will help (I've seen a weird open ended spanner at circa 90 degrees on another thread)? What bolts/gaskets are best to refit?
Any advice most welcome even if it's stop being a fool and book it into a garage.
Thanks.
ive done mine dude its not too bad you need several length 14 inch spanners be prepared to bend one to fit better.. what i did was a test undo every bolt spray litte wd40 and nip them back up then removal wont be a pig... starter motor got to come off drivers side exhaust off passenger sideIs removing and refitting the manifold a job that should be attempted by a monkey like me? I've read its a pig of a job. I'll then get a mate to cut the manifold open and weld the branches up.
As it's half term next week I'm going down to West Wales with the family where I will have use of my wife's uncles workshop. I am planning on changing all discs and pads there but am now contemplating the manifold as well.
If I can get it on, is it just as easy (difficult) to get back on? What's the likelihood of shearing a bolt on the head? Any tools that will help (I've seen a weird open ended spanner at circa 90 degrees on another thread)? What bolts/gaskets are best to refit?
Any advice most welcome even if it's stop being a fool and book it into a garage.
Thanks.
oh and you need a ramp or 4 very high axle stands
good luck
Depends what you class as difficult. If bolts havent been on too long should be ok. An idea when rrplacing is to use allan head bolts too. Took me less than half hour to remove near side today on racer, all done from the top! Though we have cut an allan key down to use with a spanner for the awkward ones lol... no exhaust off either. Drivers side you need starter motor off as bottom ones sit further back and need to get in underneath ideally. Still onlyhalf hour on racer though... 
Technically, it isn't difficult. However, it is a real pain in the arse. If you don't swear now, you will do by the time you finish. If your manifolds have been off recently, then it should be easier to undo the bolts. How quick the job will be may depend your physiology and facilities you have available. I've uploaded the ignition diagram as it helps visualise things! Please note, that the various smilies may also reflect your mood at the various stages of the job!!! 
Before you start the job, disconnect your battery. You will inevitably drop the spanners on several occasions and you'll be right over the starter motor and live feed whilst working over cylinder 8. Dropping the spanner here will cause sparks and could weld your spanner to the starter
As for spanners, I found that shorter, open ended spanners worked best for me when working from above and longer spanners from underneath. I was able to get a ratchet and socket on a couple of them.
The upper bolts are all straight forward to remove
. The lower bolts aren't. Each bolt underneath the manifold requires a different removal technique and it is a bit of trial and error. 
The bolts under 1 & 2 are straight forward and can be reached from the front. Having thin hands and wrists enables you to squeeze your hands down the back of the manifolds behind 7 & 8 and into the gaps in the manifolds between 3 & 5 and 4 & 6. This technique only allowed me to remove/ tighten the bolts for 7 & 8 and 5 & 6 and take most of the skin of my hands and arms 
. If you have larger hands, then you'll probably have to resort to spending more time under the car 
. If you are fortunate enough to be able to squeeze your hands down the gaps in the manifolds, tie some string around one end of the spanner as this will help you manoeuvre and retrieve it when dropped! 
Getting underneath the car is the obvious way. I used axel stands, but reaching the manifolds whilst lying down wasn't easy... you may find your arms now too short! Time for a longer spanner.
The bolts on the off-side (cylinders 2,4,6,8) are more accessible; the most difficult to reach being no.8 if you're doing it from underneath, because the chassis, starter etc get in the way
.
The bolts underneath on the nearside (1,3,5,7) are blocked by the exhaust
. This makes removing them with the exhaust in situ more difficult, but possible with a very long spanner or spanner placed into a pipe to hold it. If you have a flexible connector underneath, removing the Y-piece may facilitate access!
This all sounds a faff and it is... but this is where TVR design genius comes into its own... You may find that the lower bolts on 3 & 4 are fouled by the exhaust manifold itself. This means they cannot be fully undone without moving the manifold away from the cylinder head to allow the bolt to rotate.
The only way I found to get them off was to support the weight of the manifolds away from the head and gradually remove the bolts. If you're lying on your back, then your arms will be aching by now 
However, once done, the manifolds should now be off... time to celebrate and wonder where the day went!
Now you have them off, it is a good idea to think about making life a little easier when getting them back on and for future removal. Some swear by allen bolts others by studs. I went the stainless studs route and picked up a pack off Fleabay for a tenner. I then cut slots in the bottom of the manifolds to facilitate easy fitting and removal (see pics)! A steel cutting disc, angle grinder and twenty minutes was all it took and it made refitting and removal a lot faster.
Which ever method you choose, be sure to fit the lower nuts/ bolts on cylinders 3 & 4 first as the will not go on once the manifold is flush with the cylinder head. The rest is just the reversal!!! If you're worried about the different metal studs reacting with the alloy head, coat them with Duralac before fitting. HTH.
Whilst they're off, it is also a good time to change the fuel hoses to the fuel rail if they haven't been done recently? Perhaps replace the heat shielding, paint the chassis underneath the manifolds, change the plugs and even bash out the pre-cats!!!
This may also give you a few ideas: http://www.rv8r.co.uk/exhaustgasket.html
Slots cut in manifolds:
Studs
Before you start the job, disconnect your battery. You will inevitably drop the spanners on several occasions and you'll be right over the starter motor and live feed whilst working over cylinder 8. Dropping the spanner here will cause sparks and could weld your spanner to the starter
As for spanners, I found that shorter, open ended spanners worked best for me when working from above and longer spanners from underneath. I was able to get a ratchet and socket on a couple of them.The upper bolts are all straight forward to remove
. The lower bolts aren't. Each bolt underneath the manifold requires a different removal technique and it is a bit of trial and error. The bolts under 1 & 2 are straight forward and can be reached from the front.
Having thin hands and wrists enables you to squeeze your hands down the back of the manifolds behind 7 & 8 and into the gaps in the manifolds between 3 & 5 and 4 & 6. This technique only allowed me to remove/ tighten the bolts for 7 & 8 and 5 & 6 and take most of the skin of my hands and arms . If you have larger hands, then you'll probably have to resort to spending more time under the car . If you are fortunate enough to be able to squeeze your hands down the gaps in the manifolds, tie some string around one end of the spanner as this will help you manoeuvre and retrieve it when dropped! Getting underneath the car is the obvious way. I used axel stands, but reaching the manifolds whilst lying down wasn't easy... you may find your arms now too short! Time for a longer spanner.
The bolts on the off-side (cylinders 2,4,6,8) are more accessible; the most difficult to reach being no.8 if you're doing it from underneath, because the chassis, starter etc get in the way
.The bolts underneath on the nearside (1,3,5,7) are blocked by the exhaust
. This makes removing them with the exhaust in situ more difficult, but possible with a very long spanner or spanner placed into a pipe to hold it. If you have a flexible connector underneath, removing the Y-piece may facilitate access! This all sounds a faff and it is... but this is where TVR design genius comes into its own... You may find that the lower bolts on 3 & 4 are fouled by the exhaust manifold itself. This means they cannot be fully undone without moving the manifold away from the cylinder head to allow the bolt to rotate.
The only way I found to get them off was to support the weight of the manifolds away from the head and gradually remove the bolts. If you're lying on your back, then your arms will be aching by now However, once done, the manifolds should now be off... time to celebrate and wonder where the day went!
Now you have them off, it is a good idea to think about making life a little easier when getting them back on and for future removal. Some swear by allen bolts others by studs. I went the stainless studs route and picked up a pack off Fleabay for a tenner. I then cut slots in the bottom of the manifolds to facilitate easy fitting and removal (see pics)! A steel cutting disc, angle grinder and twenty minutes was all it took and it made refitting and removal a lot faster.
Which ever method you choose, be sure to fit the lower nuts/ bolts on cylinders 3 & 4 first as the will not go on once the manifold is flush with the cylinder head. The rest is just the reversal!!! If you're worried about the different metal studs reacting with the alloy head, coat them with Duralac before fitting. HTH.
Whilst they're off, it is also a good time to change the fuel hoses to the fuel rail if they haven't been done recently? Perhaps replace the heat shielding, paint the chassis underneath the manifolds, change the plugs and even bash out the pre-cats!!!
This may also give you a few ideas: http://www.rv8r.co.uk/exhaustgasket.html
Slots cut in manifolds:
Studs
Edited by Chuffmeister on Saturday 26th October 23:24
Saying it because it needs to be said;
There are chaps out there that will do this for £150(ish) or less + the welding.
Some of these TVR mechanics will have done this 100 times.
It almost takes more time for the exhaust to cool before starting the job, than to do the job when you know how.
I've watched mine being done a couple of times now.
Best £150 I've ever spent, each time.
There are chaps out there that will do this for £150(ish) or less + the welding.
Some of these TVR mechanics will have done this 100 times.
It almost takes more time for the exhaust to cool before starting the job, than to do the job when you know how.
I've watched mine being done a couple of times now.
Best £150 I've ever spent, each time.
I removed the drivers side manifold without removing started motor, and it was one of the first jobs I ever did on a car so it's not too bad. You'll need to remove wires on the lambda or use a special tool. I think imperial spanners were needed, and a lot of patience. Wouldn't want to pay a garage to do it as it's not technical just time consuming. And you need little double jointed hands and wrists.
I removed the drivers side manifold without removing started motor, and it was one of the first jobs I ever did on a car so it's not too bad. You'll need to remove wires on the lambda or use a special tool. I think imperial spanners were needed, and a lot of patience. Wouldn't want to pay a garage to do it as it's not technical just time consuming. And you need little double jointed hands and wrists.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Another good post.
Ive used new steel bolts and washers not the studs. Less phaffing about, thats the way TVR did it. Soak the old bolts over night with WD40 may help to prevent breakage. After 100 miles retighten bolts/studs a 1/4 turn. 14mm S spanner and 1/4 inch drive short ratchet needed for back end underneath bolts.
Enjoy your half term break in West Wales and fix manifold when kids are back in School. Bore da o Castell Newydd Emlyn.
Another good post.
Ive used new steel bolts and washers not the studs. Less phaffing about, thats the way TVR did it. Soak the old bolts over night with WD40 may help to prevent breakage. After 100 miles retighten bolts/studs a 1/4 turn. 14mm S spanner and 1/4 inch drive short ratchet needed for back end underneath bolts.
Enjoy your half term break in West Wales and fix manifold when kids are back in School. Bore da o Castell Newydd Emlyn.
Edited by EGB on Sunday 27th October 10:04
A900ss said:
I'll be just down the road in Llechryd.
Small world Karl! Used to do some boy racer stuff Llechryd to Newcastle in Dad's Wolsley 6/80. Nice drifty opposite lock bend after leaving Cenarth for Llechryd. Left dip right turn. It's still there. Enjoy it in your Chimaera. Go easy ! Edited by EGB on Sunday 27th October 12:46
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