RR Vs OTR Megasquirt mapping
RR Vs OTR Megasquirt mapping
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Discussion

Chilliman

Original Poster:

12,422 posts

191 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Anyone out there with Megasquirt had it mapped on a rolling road? Just wondering if RR mapping identified anything (fuelling/ignition) that (after a bit of map tweaking) resulted in more power/torque/driveability?

Had beastie mapped on the road a few times and done the usual power runs on the dyno but not had it mapped whilst on the dyno....

Interested to hear peeps experience with this..

TIA, Chilli smile

SILICONEKID343HP

14,997 posts

261 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Chilliman said:
Anyone out there with Megasquirt had it mapped on a rolling road? Just wondering if RR mapping identified anything (fuelling/ignition) that (after a bit of map tweaking) resulted in more power/torque/driveability?

Had beastie mapped on the road a few times and done the usual power runs on the dyno but not had it mapped whilst on the dyno....

Interested to hear peeps experience with this..

TIA, Chilli smile
Give Jools a call ,he does not bite . He normally keeps the car until he is happy with the cold start and refine the road manners.

http://www.kitsandclassics.co.uk/

Edited by SILICONEKID343HP on Saturday 23 November 13:23

QBee

22,490 posts

174 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
I had my 14CUX mapped on the RR, as you know. It allowed Mark A to examine all parts of the rev range/gears. They then took it for a road test afterwards.

phazed

22,504 posts

234 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Had my 4.6 mapped on the RR by Austecs who gave it back satisfied that they had done a good job.

Power was ok but I had shunting at low revs.

Called Shaun at MS2 Tuning and he tweaked the map to a more manageable map. I was pleased with the result and had no problems after that.

Saying the above, Shaun tweaked the existing map on the 5.5 and it runs beautifully but is there a couple of more bhp, dunno but if there was, I probably wouldn't notice it smile

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
A rolling road is an extremely useful tool for sure, you can hold the car under a fixed load which makes pinpointing specific areas & resolving issues much easier than on the road.

I've recently spent a whole load of hours on a rolling road understanding how to use it, thankfully all these hours were free which helps take the stress out of the experience & let me really get to grips with mapping.

But at the end of the day, I've been doing the polishing of my maps on the road.

The road is the real world, and it's the real world where you drive your car.

Like I say, a rolling road is a very handy tool to simulate & hold the car in areas of load you want to address without the frustrations of traffic ect getting in the way.

But a team of two (one driver & one on the laptop) who both understand the process and work well together is pretty hard to beat, and ultimately its all you need.

Well, you need lots of fuel, time & patience too.

An obedient driver and a good mapper on the lappy working on the road will deliver infinitely better results than unskilled mapper with the best rolling road.

But a good mapper that has the facilities to start the process on the rolling road then polish the map on the road will give the best results of all.

RR vs OTR is not really the question, I'd focus more on how skilled & experienced the mapper is.

carsy

3,019 posts

195 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Jools did mine on the rollers and then we went out on the road for a bit and made a few minor adjustments to the low speed running. Great result.

Chilliman

Original Poster:

12,422 posts

191 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Dave, appreciate the reply, I understand the RR/OTR mapping scenarios... was just curious as to whether anyone had experienced gain over OTR after RR... Last two mapping sessions were both OTR, Phil did one at the end of December last year, and Shaun did the last one some weeks back at the MS open day. Last session Shaun dialled out almost all of the low down roughness, but at both sessions the roads were extremely wet so mapping WOT was an issue. Last one we had started to go sideways, at 70mph in third. Shaun didn't notice as he was focussed on the laptop biggrin We came a bit too close to the Armco for my liking wink

Rob thinks I'm still running too rich, haven't spoken to Shaun about this yet but plan on doing so next week...

Chilli smile


Chilliman

Original Poster:

12,422 posts

191 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
carsy said:
Jools did mine on the rollers and then we went out on the road for a bit and made a few minor adjustments to the low speed running. Great result.
carsy, that kinda bears out my thinking, RR for getting stuff right at high rpm (best advance/retard for max bhp without knocking), OTR for driveability... Shaun did a great job a few weeks back, but I've still not been able to map it when giving it proper beans....

I'm sure there's a few more ponies in there waiting to escape smile

phazed

22,504 posts

234 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Shaun did say he would like to attend a TD and Snetterton isn't too far away from him iirc.

That would be as good as a RR session I reckon and more in the real world!

Chilliman

Original Poster:

12,422 posts

191 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
phazed said:
Shaun did say he would like to attend a TD and Snetterton isn't too far away from him iirc.

That would be as good as a RR session I reckon and more in the real world!
Now that sounds like a great idea biggrin

Mapping under full load WOT giving it max is what I'm after smile

Maybe we could throw a few quid in each to pay his expenses wink

SILICONEKID343HP

14,997 posts

261 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Chilliman said:
phazed said:
Shaun did say he would like to attend a TD and Snetterton isn't too far away from him iirc.

That would be as good as a RR session I reckon and more in the real world!
Now that sounds like a great idea biggrin

Mapping under full load WOT giving it max is what I'm after smile

Maybe we could throw a few quid in each to pay his expenses wink
When I went to a track day they told us no mapping allowed. You could hide the laptop under the seat and leave it on Auto Tune or Data log .

Edited by SILICONEKID343HP on Saturday 23 November 20:38

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Chilliman said:
Rob thinks I'm still running too rich, haven't spoken to Shaun about this yet but plan on doing so next week...Chilli smile
Mate your AFR gauge will confirm that, or better still your data logs.

You could pay to get it back on the rollers to look at this area in isolation under a controlled environment, but I'd just log it on the road & experiment with leaning things off very very slightly and very very gradually if you're seeing it going rich at the top of the map.

But be careful, make your changes in very small increments, going lean when you're giving it a boot full is very bad news for your engine.

At the end of the day you're way better off a little rich at WOT, than on the edge of too lean trying to find another 5hp.


Chilliman

Original Poster:

12,422 posts

191 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
Chilliman said:
Rob thinks I'm still running too rich, haven't spoken to Shaun about this yet but plan on doing so next week...Chilli smile
Mate your AFR gauge will confirm that, or better still your data logs.

You could pay to get it back on the rollers to look at this area in isolation under a controlled environment, but I'd just log it on the road & experiment with leaning things off very very slightly and very very gradually if you're seeing it going rich at the top of the map.
our
But be careful, make your changes in very small increments, going lean when you're giving it a boot full is very bad news for your engine.

At the end of the day you're way better off a little rich at WOT, than on the edge of too lean trying to find another 5hp.
Dave, as always your experience is muchly appreciated smile One of my concerns is running too rich.. I had this when my air temp sensor went tits up, and the ECU thought the air temp was -30, so serious over fuelling.... It goes back to the heavy breathing, and the possibility that the rich running has resulted in bore wash... possible glazed bores and a resulting blow by....
Maybe I'm just paranoid smile

We did a leak down test a few weeks back, and it was within acceptable limits, but I'm not convinced all is well.... scratchchin

I'm not looking for as much bhp as I can get, just what it can realistically produce without risk smile




carsy

3,019 posts

195 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
For peace of mind get it on the rollers and see whats happening in the comfort of a garage and without risking putting it sideways into a field. Not the best time of year for putting down nearly 400 gee gees on the road.

Sardonicus

19,454 posts

251 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Chilliman said:
Dave, as always your experience is muchly appreciated smile One of my concerns is running too rich.. I had this when my air temp sensor went tits up, and the ECU thought the air temp was -30, so serious over fuelling.... It goes back to the heavy breathing, and the possibility that the rich running has resulted in bore wash... possible glazed bores and a resulting blow by....
Maybe I'm just paranoid smile

We did a leak down test a few weeks back, and it was within acceptable limits, but I'm not convinced all is well.... scratchchin

I'm not looking for as much bhp as I can get, just what it can realistically produce without risk smile
You worry to much wink if my soon to be removed 130k motor can have an average of 4% leak-down on the cylinders you have nowt to worry about rolleyes the only way you would get more HP on the rolling road at full chat is optimizing the advance curve/total advance scratchchin unless your using a crap WB of course where the top end fueling is way out and as Chimp-on-tabs says I would rather be a tad rich than lean scratchchin


Edited by Sardonicus on Saturday 23 November 21:45

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Sardonicus said:
and as Chimp-on-tabs says I would rather be a tad rich than lean scratchchin
Edited by Sardonicus on Saturday 23 November 21:45
Smoooookin smokin



Sardonicus

19,454 posts

251 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
Smoooookin smokin


Sorry Dave couldn't resist rofl could be a lot worse biggrin


Edited by Sardonicus on Saturday 23 November 23:17

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Saturday 23rd November 2013
quotequote all
Sardonicus said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Smoooookin smokin


Sorry Dave couldn't resist rofl could be a lot worse biggrin


Edited by Sardonicus on Saturday 23 November 23:17
I cant believe you still have that picture of me Simon.

You promised you'd burnt all the negatives when I gave you that last £500.

Will this blackmail ever end?

Now you go and post it on a public forum!!!!

You wait till I get your Donkey snaps on here wink

Chilliman

Original Poster:

12,422 posts

191 months

Sunday 24th November 2013
quotequote all
Right, forget the OTR/RR stuff, I'd like to hear more about the donkey snaps. Please. biggrin

Sardonicus

19,454 posts

251 months

Sunday 24th November 2013
quotequote all
Chilliman said:
Right, forget the OTR/RR stuff, I'd like to hear more about the donkey snaps. Please. biggrin
What! you want to see pictures of my Ass? yikes