Discussion
Hi all,
I'm just looking at getting an oil cooler installed in my Chim and I have the cooler & hoses, but am unsure if I need a sandwich plate or now. It's a serpentine engine, but I've read in some places that the serp front covers already have blanked off holes for a cooler - is this correct? Or are they talking about the P38 with the short cam version of the engine? In which case do I need a sandwich plate or not...? If I do, is this one the correct one..?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
I'm just looking at getting an oil cooler installed in my Chim and I have the cooler & hoses, but am unsure if I need a sandwich plate or now. It's a serpentine engine, but I've read in some places that the serp front covers already have blanked off holes for a cooler - is this correct? Or are they talking about the P38 with the short cam version of the engine? In which case do I need a sandwich plate or not...? If I do, is this one the correct one..?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
The intermediate (ie crank driven oil pump plus dizzy) covers have ports for a cooler loop (out on side, return on bottom I think) but need the OEM Rover hose fittings as they have inserts that reconfigure the oil flow routing. Don't think they're available to make up aftermarket hoses so suspect sandwich plate is the way forward - what oil temps are you seeing 9and where measured)?
No idea what the temps were, but I've got Steve Howard doing a full rebuild at the moment and he found evidence of overheated oil (I assume burned oil deposits) and recommended that I get a cooler put in while we're doing the rebuild. He already has a cooler and hoses but asked me to get a sandwich plate on order - while I was looking for one I noticed that some variants already have outlet points but I guess he already knew that and still thought the plate was the way to go, sounds like the sandwich plate is the way forward then...
450Nick said:
I was told specifically not to..??
okay...Odd, because otherwise the oil cooler is cooling all the time, and as people have found, it can over cool, or slow the warm up process.
Whereas a thermostatically controlled cooler only cools when needed, and allows the engine to come to operating temperature as normal.
Best to ask why from your expert, rather than trust me
Goaty Bill said:
okay...
Odd, because otherwise the oil cooler is cooling all the time, and as people have found, it can over cool, or slow the warm up process.
Whereas a thermostatically controlled cooler only cools when needed, and allows the engine to come to operating temperature as normal.
Best to ask why from your expert, rather than trust me
I think (this was a while ago) he told me that the thermostatically controlled sandwich plates weren't very good, and I take that to mean that the thermostats fail frequently. He has a lot of experience in TVR Racing so I guess this comes from track experience. I think the idea of the thermostatically controlled one makes a lot of sense for the reasons you've mentioned, but equally I see Steve's point from experience of keep it simple, especially when its controlling the oil flow to the engine. I'll have another word with him and see what he says.Odd, because otherwise the oil cooler is cooling all the time, and as people have found, it can over cool, or slow the warm up process.
Whereas a thermostatically controlled cooler only cools when needed, and allows the engine to come to operating temperature as normal.
Best to ask why from your expert, rather than trust me
The front covers do have take offs, but the side one (return) needs the special LR hose (the pair can be bought for £30 delivered). As std on TVR serps the return has a bung in and the outlet has the oil pressure sender (so you just need to relocate that).
However there is no stat as the system is designed by default (all LR's) to have an oil/water cooler ~ so the water heats the oil till hot - then cools it ~ hence no stat required.
The LR hoses come with steel ends connected by hose, so it is a simple matter to have them chopped up & extended to whatever you like at your local competent hydraulic outfit, good ones may have fittings for the timing cover outlet (std metric thread ~ just the small o-ring seal on the end) but its as easy to buy the pair from Paddock in Matlock.
You would have to have an oil/water cooler plumbed in, I've found the Rover 75 V6 items to be perfectly adequate. To get warming coolant flowing round you also need a remote stat ~ which has many other benefits as well (fitted standard on cerbs & most modern cars).
However there is no stat as the system is designed by default (all LR's) to have an oil/water cooler ~ so the water heats the oil till hot - then cools it ~ hence no stat required.
The LR hoses come with steel ends connected by hose, so it is a simple matter to have them chopped up & extended to whatever you like at your local competent hydraulic outfit, good ones may have fittings for the timing cover outlet (std metric thread ~ just the small o-ring seal on the end) but its as easy to buy the pair from Paddock in Matlock.
You would have to have an oil/water cooler plumbed in, I've found the Rover 75 V6 items to be perfectly adequate. To get warming coolant flowing round you also need a remote stat ~ which has many other benefits as well (fitted standard on cerbs & most modern cars).
Just looking at this myself. Mocul appear to do a take off plate that fits onto the oil pump, but I don't know if that is compatible with the later engines. In addition I can't find one listed with a thermostat.
The only problem you will encounter with sandwich type plate is that there is not room for a standard oil filter due to the chassis getting in the way.
Neal (who built the engine now in my car) sourced an early sierra cosworth filter that is wider but shorter that fits and is up to spec.
The reason I am looking is that my sandwich plate does not have a stat in it so I was looking to replace it. Interesting views on whether it is required or not. My thoughts on this topic area that my car might run relatively short trips fairly frequently so getting up to temp quock is a bonus. This combined with the fact that worst case the stat fails and you run either with no cooler or cooler all the time which I will hopefully notice as abnormal on my gauge.
I am also looking at the best configuration for fitting a temp sender and oil pressure sender that I can feed into my Megasquirt Shadowdash display. I am already using a T piece from the standard pressure switch to feed the turbos so another outlet that is already there would be handy. Thanks Spend and others, I will try and find this blanking plug you mention. I wonder if there are any senders out there with the correct thread.....
Matt
The only problem you will encounter with sandwich type plate is that there is not room for a standard oil filter due to the chassis getting in the way.
Neal (who built the engine now in my car) sourced an early sierra cosworth filter that is wider but shorter that fits and is up to spec.
The reason I am looking is that my sandwich plate does not have a stat in it so I was looking to replace it. Interesting views on whether it is required or not. My thoughts on this topic area that my car might run relatively short trips fairly frequently so getting up to temp quock is a bonus. This combined with the fact that worst case the stat fails and you run either with no cooler or cooler all the time which I will hopefully notice as abnormal on my gauge.
I am also looking at the best configuration for fitting a temp sender and oil pressure sender that I can feed into my Megasquirt Shadowdash display. I am already using a T piece from the standard pressure switch to feed the turbos so another outlet that is already there would be handy. Thanks Spend and others, I will try and find this blanking plug you mention. I wonder if there are any senders out there with the correct thread.....
Matt
Edited by mattrosersv on Thursday 28th November 17:25
Oh my christ. You bought the lightweight chassis version. I would have thought a remote filter might have been a better option...
Bit of an arse getting the grinder and welder out for each oil change.... Assume there is room to get that filter off...... I tried one of those and could not get it in without lifting the engine with the plate fitted...
Bit of an arse getting the grinder and welder out for each oil change.... Assume there is room to get that filter off...... I tried one of those and could not get it in without lifting the engine with the plate fitted...
Edited by mattrosersv on Thursday 28th November 18:02
I think mine works ,i can feel both pipes ,there is a temperature difference .. A griff owner sold me the kit but later found there are no take off points on the sandwich plate for a temperature gauge .
It has a remote stat but i don`t know if that works .
I drilled two holes to the right hand side of the radiator and used two MGB grommets which fitted perfect.
Mine does not fowl the chassis ,i use a Cosworth oil filter , i checked ,a standard filter will fit ..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AHA8401-OIL-COOLER-PIPE-...
It has a remote stat but i don`t know if that works .
I drilled two holes to the right hand side of the radiator and used two MGB grommets which fitted perfect.
Mine does not fowl the chassis ,i use a Cosworth oil filter , i checked ,a standard filter will fit ..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AHA8401-OIL-COOLER-PIPE-...
Edited by SILICONEKID343HP on Thursday 28th November 18:17
phazed said:
Of course, once you fit a sandwich plate the chassis will obstruct the original oil filter.
Solution, (by the previous owner I hasten to add).
Personally I like my chassis altered for positive benefits only
Thanks Simon.
Where can i take a connection for the oil temp or could someone tell me the size and type connections i have so a T piece can be fitted .Solution, (by the previous owner I hasten to add).
Personally I like my chassis altered for positive benefits only
Thanks Simon.
SILICONEKID343HP said:
Where can i take a connection for the oil temp or could someone tell me the size and type connections i have so a T piece can be fitted .
If you get yourself an M20 x 1.5 bung with an 1/8NPT tapped hole in the centre, that can be swapped for the adaptor holding the pressure sender in the bottom of the front cover, The adaptor can then be popped in the side of the cover to replace the blank bung there and will accept a 1/8NPT temp sender.Alternatively, drill and tap the side bung if you have the right tap.
450Nick said:
I think (this was a while ago) he told me that the thermostatically controlled sandwich plates weren't very good, and I take that to mean that the thermostats fail frequently. He has a lot of experience in TVR Racing so I guess this comes from track experience. I think the idea of the thermostatically controlled one makes a lot of sense for the reasons you've mentioned, but equally I see Steve's point from experience of keep it simple, especially when its controlling the oil flow to the engine. I'll have another word with him and see what he says.
Odd but, if they are known to be poor then he would be right not to want to risk it.I ran them on my MGs for quite a few years without incident.
I know they were working correctly and effectively, but other's mileage may differ.
Pupp said:
SILICONEKID343HP said:
Where can i take a connection for the oil temp or could someone tell me the size and type connections i have so a T piece can be fitted .
If you get yourself an M20 x 1.5 bung with an 1/8NPT tapped hole in the centre, that can be swapped for the adaptor holding the pressure sender in the bottom of the front cover, The adaptor can then be popped in the side of the cover to replace the blank bung there and will accept a 1/8NPT temp sender.Alternatively, drill and tap the side bung if you have the right tap.
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