The cost of running a Chimaera.....
The cost of running a Chimaera.....
Author
Discussion

seismic22

Original Poster:

662 posts

199 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Following paying off University debt and finally achieving what I have been working towards the last few years in my career, I will shortly be in a position to purchase the Chimaera I have always wanted. I will still however be on a relatively modest wage compared to many on here and I would like to hear what sort of budget people on here consider should be set aside to run one!

I have done plenty of reading over the years and understand the pitfalls etc so could people comment on how much they think I should have set aside each year considering the following:

Car would definitely be a mid 90's example
I am handy with spanners (changed gearboxes, wheel bearings etc etc)
Servicing to be carried out by myself
Expected limited mileage per year of sub 8k
No outrigger issues and reasonable running health from the offset (crosses fingers).

Any advice welcome!

Thanks.

Alun450

12,424 posts

179 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Seismic, how long is a piece of string!
Many answers to that question I'm afraid,
You sound informed and handy so that's a big help.
Its all down to the car you buy!
Get your ten or twenty point list before viewing and make sure the engine is stone cold before its started!
If you really know what your doing fine but I'd get an expert in your area to come look with you!
If you buy a good car sorted by a good owner then it'll be trouble free bar the odd niggle!
If you buy a cheap example it could cost you a years wages just to get it running!
That's my point its all down to the car you buy.

If you read up on here you'll soon come across millions of good owners!

A car sorted now is better than when it left Blackpool all those years ago!

If I had my choice again I'd make sure I bought the best my money could get me.

The thread!!!
Costs
Petrol. That's expensive,
Parts , cheap really!
Expert advice, expensive but cheap in the long run!!!

I'm sure someone else will be more precise.


jojackson4

3,049 posts

167 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Cost for me are about a grand a year at the moment + road rent and insurance
But a lot of that is getting it back to where it should be and some mods( 9k 500 when I got it a bit scabby )

pac1uk

272 posts

221 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
If you buy a decent one and you are handy with the spanners then the running costs are low. These cars are fairly basic which makes it easier to work on.

This is based on my experience I got a decent one and have done all the spanner work so far.

I also use a local independent garage which are far cheaper than the specialists, I have just had all the fluids and filters changed, diff, gearbox, engine oil etc. I just supplied the bits.

If you buy a bad one then then costs can quickly escalate, also mods and improvements can add significant costs.

You have also got cheap tax and cheap insurance if you compare it to modern performance cars. Price of fuel is no too bad if you are only a doing a few thousand miles a year.

Robert Lees

550 posts

171 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Tax £210
Insurance £280 ( 5k miles Mannings)
mot £50
servicing £ 0 ( diy) to £650~ full
petrol £ ??? 4.0 25 mpg ,4.5-5.0 < 20 mpg
Tyres £ cheaper than my 2007 gti !

The grin on your mush when u realise you have bought a car you wanted for years or when u hear it pop as it decelerates £ priceless!

repairs and modding are again variable depending what state u buy the car in ( peters above makes a right racket!!) and how long u resist the urge to " just add" something.

s p a c e m a n

12,103 posts

178 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Had mine for about 9 months now and daily running in fuel and broken things is about half of the Audi s4 that I had before it. Nothing really breaks, and the things that do are relatively cheap and can be fixed easily if you can wave a spanner. The only things that would cost you real money is the chassis and obviously drivetrain issues, so make sure that the outriggers, clutch, engine, gearbox and diff aren't about to explode and the rest is pocket money. Try and find one with decent coilovers on it already, unless you want a completely standard car, as it seem they're the first thing that most people change.

TVRJAS

2,391 posts

159 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Only had my current TVR (Chimaera) just over six months but if you look at my blog that is everything I have spent in that six months. Looks like I'm only one of few on PH that keeps this up to date.

Love to know how to average 25mpg with a 4.0L smileOf course this does depend style of driving and your journey but I'm hardly ever in stop start traffic and I'm not thrashing about everywhere either and you will see from blog I'm under that.(Not that it makes a huge difference doing 8K a year)

I have a 12k service due in about a month so will have about a £ 5-600 bill coming from TVR power.As I bought a very clean example in the 1st place I'm pretty confident this bill will not escalate. Having a few problems with temp gauge and hot air not coming out full so maybe a new thermostat will be required.

But as is being pointed out if you buy cheap in the 1st place expect some outlay,but unless your unlucky these cars are no more expensive to run than many things out there.

But OH what joy they bring drivingbounce

Also just add when you bring depreciation into it you can't loose. Across all the TVR brands looks like things are heading north. If i was to sell mine now after six months I would't except a penny less than I paid for it.

I very nearly was going to be sensible and looked at a Volvo c70 T5 before buying the Chimaera which is 6 months ago and would be now worth probably about 1k less,12 months 1.5 2k and so on. Chimaera don't see me loosing anything or if it becomes a very long time keeper who knows maybe worth more smile

Edited by TVRJAS on Saturday 18th January 14:19

J4CKS

98 posts

164 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
I can echo the above posts.
I've had mine for a year and costs have been fairly low. Usual running costs such as service and mot. Insurance is good - im 28 and pay £340.
In the past year I've spent money on a new slave cylinder and some brake work.
The most expensive element will be the modifications in the coming months.

It has cost less than a renult megane and bmw 330i put together in the space of a year. Im sure it'll vary as time goes by.
Fuel wise, I used half a tank from Leicester to Christchurch - although the top half of the tank always lasts longer.

I got mine from James Agger - with him being a specialist I had peace of mind with my purchase

Stop worrying about the cost. Just get one. I'm sure you won't regret it if you get a good one.

CHEF_GOLF

213 posts

270 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
And don't forget the cost of all the mods you will no doubt want to do

MethylatedSpirit

2,103 posts

166 months

Saturday 18th January 2014
quotequote all
Overall, the total running costs for my TVR over 12k miles cost less than my girlfriends diesel Audi (Injectors, dpf, dmf and oil pump went!) to run over the same amount of miles (minus chassis repair & general restoration).

If you're hands on like I am, the running costs can be very good indeed. Dare I say it won't depreciate at all...

Fuel for 8000 miles:

Super boring deisel (45mpg) £1074.90 per year / £20 per week
Normalish car (35mpg) £1382.01 per year / £26.50 per week
Tvr (25mpg) £1860.40 per year / £35 per week

An extra £15 per week to run over a derv. Sounds good to me!

None of the parts are absurdly expensive. It doesn't chew through tyres and it won't depreciate much, if at all.

They're not bad at all and can be used as an everyday car in the summer. My girlfriend did!

Edited by MethylatedSpirit on Saturday 18th January 22:48

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
If the fuel costs do scare you off, you can always convert to LPG.

Obviously there's the initial cost of the conversion to factor in, but my LPG Chimaera delivers the cost equivalent of a petrol car averaging 40mpg, or a diesel car that averages 42mpg.

In truth it falls somewhere in between, giving a better cost per mile than your everyday small/medium sized petrol car but being very slightly more costly to fuel than a diesel.

That makes it a very very practical everyday car indeed.

But lets be honest, the fact we're even comparing the cost per mile of my 17 year old 4.0 litre V8 TVR with a small petrol hatchback or diesel is nuts.

With cheap parts, robust mechanicals, easy servicing & zero depreciation factored in, even a petrol Chimaera has the potential to be a cheap car to run.

Keeping it that way is an exercise in avoiding those big ticket jobs;

1. Clutch: £400
2. Outriggers: £1800
3. Cam replacement: £800

Just a few examples amongst many you understand & by no means a comprehensive list of what may come up early on in your tenure, keep in mind just these three jobs alone could represent £3,000 of work if you're paying someone else to do them for you.

Even if you're careful choosing the right car you could still easily find all three jobs present themselves in the first couple of years of ownership, making your cheap to run TVR a costly experience.

Remember even the youngest Chimaera is going to be 11 years old and most are over 15 years now, that's getting on a bit for any car so you really shouldn't be surprised if you hit a few big bills along the way.

For best value, you need to buy wisely choosing a Chimaera with as many of the big ticket jobs completed & paid for by the previous owner, the vendor will never get the cost of these jobs back in the sale price, so in effect you're likely to be getting them for next to nothing.

Paying fractionally more for a more sorted car with the big ticket jobs already done is an absolute no-brainer, it'll very likely save you a stack of cash in the first few years of ownership.

And with less workshop downtime you'll get to spend more time driving & enjoying your Chimaera, making that slightly more expensive sorted car a double no-brainer over something that perhaps initially cost you £1000 less.

Get all this right & your Chimaera could easily not only be a very cheap performance car to run, but a cheap everyday car full stop.

Try that with something red & Italian or even German with the engine at the wrong end.

TVR's have an appalling reputation for reliability and not without reason, remember even when brand new they were always a hand made low volume car.

But in reality (the above big ticket jobs aside) making them reliable is usually just the case of cheaply sorting out a few little niggles, that's why they make a better proposition for the hands on owner.

If you're happy to fettle, the thrills are completely disproportionate to the purchase price (in a good way).

As always "Caveat Emptor" & all that wink

Art0ir

9,423 posts

200 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
What would you be looking to pay for one in good in condition?

Sadly I don't have room for two of my own cars plus the missus' so it would be taking over daily duties (around 10k per annum).

JimChim500

272 posts

247 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
If the fuel costs do scare you off, you can always convert to LPG.

Obviously there's the initial cost of the conversion to factor in, but my LPG Chimaera delivers the cost equivalent of a petrol car averaging 40mpg, or a diesel car that averages 42mpg.

In truth it falls somewhere in between, giving a better cost per mile than your everyday small/medium sized petrol car but being very slightly more costly to fuel than a diesel.

That makes it a very very practical everyday car indeed.

But lets be honest, the fact we're even comparing the cost per mile of my 17 year old 4.0 litre V8 TVR with a small petrol hatchback or diesel is nuts.

With cheap parts, robust mechanicals, easy servicing & zero depreciation factored in, even a petrol Chimaera has the potential to be a cheap car to run.

Keeping it that way is an exercise in avoiding those big ticket jobs;

1. Clutch: £400
2. Outriggers: £1800
3. Cam replacement: £800

Just a few examples amongst many you understand & by no means a comprehensive list of what may come up early on in your tenure, keep in mind just these three jobs alone could represent £3,000 of work if you're paying someone else to do them for you.

Even if you're careful choosing the right car you could still easily find all three jobs present themselves in the first couple of years of ownership, making your cheap to run TVR a costly experience.

Remember even the youngest Chimaera is going to be 11 years old and most are over 15 years now, that's getting on a bit for any car so you really shouldn't be surprised if you hit a few big bills along the way.

For best value, you need to buy wisely choosing a Chimaera with as many of the big ticket jobs completed & paid for by the previous owner, the vendor will never get the cost of these jobs back in the sale price, so in effect you're likely to be getting them for next to nothing.

Paying fractionally more for a more sorted car with the big ticket jobs already done is an absolute no-brainer, it'll very likely save you a stack of cash in the first few years of ownership.

And with less workshop downtime you'll get to spend more time driving & enjoying your Chimaera, making that slightly more expensive sorted car a double no-brainer over something that perhaps initially cost you £1000 less.

Get all this right & your Chimaera could easily not only be a very cheap performance car to run, but a cheap everyday car full stop.

Try that with something red & Italian or even German with the engine at the wrong end.

TVR's have an appalling reputation for reliability and not without reason, remember even when brand new they were always a hand made low volume car.

But in reality (the above big ticket jobs aside) making them reliable is usually just the case of cheaply sorting out a few little niggles, that's why they make a better proposition for the hands on owner.

If you're happy to fettle, the thrills are completely disproportionate to the purchase price (in a good way).

As always "Caveat Emptor" & all that wink
A very comprehensive review.

I think you should add a radiator to the list as they're known to not last that long - prices vary dramatically but maybe something like £400-500.

Frio3535

612 posts

165 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
seismic22 said:
Following paying off University debt and finally achieving what I have been working towards the last few years in my career, I will shortly be in a position to purchase the Chimaera I have always wanted. I will still however be on a relatively modest wage compared to many on here and I would like to hear what sort of budget people on here consider should be set aside to run one!

I have done plenty of reading over the years and understand the pitfalls etc so could people comment on how much they think I should have set aside each year considering the following:

Car would definitely be a mid 90's example
I am handy with spanners (changed gearboxes, wheel bearings etc etc)
Servicing to be carried out by myself
Expected limited mileage per year of sub 8k
No outrigger issues and reasonable running health from the offset (crosses fingers).

Any advice welcome!

Thanks.
What's your budget for the car purchase?

Scoticus

272 posts

211 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
Very informative thread...

I shall now be spending the rest of today looking at Chims..

Going on what I have read, they work out £15 a week more to run then my Saxo VTR


ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
JimChim500 said:
A very comprehensive review.

I think you should add a radiator to the list as they're known to not last that long - prices vary dramatically but maybe something like £400-500.
As I said the three examples given are by no means a definitive list, more of a small taster of what could hit you in the first few years if you dont buy the right car.

We could go on & on making a list of potential costly pitfalls as long as you're arm, but the truth is its impossible to predict whats going to fail with any real accuracy.

For example I'm on my original rad & my earlier silver/grey outriggers are holding up well too, much better than some of the white powder coated chassis' I've seen on Chimaeras 5 years younger.

But I did need a cam, a clutch, a full set of dampers/springs, new drop links, new carpets (faded from red to pink) & some suspension bushes during my first 2-3 years with the car.

That was £2,500 of additional spend I hadn't really budgeted for, so about £1000 a year for the first three years (if we include servicing parts) just to get the car to a base level I was happy with, but it has to be said for some my experience represents getting off lightly.

And that was on a really tidy 29,000 mile 1996 Chimaera with a full TVR service history, so as I said above "Caveat Emptor" and keep in mind it is a low volume high performance car so we really shouldn't be expecting to run them on a Ford Focus budget.

The fact you can run them on a Ford Focus budget is amazing, but you'll need a very tidy & well loved car as your starting point for it to happen, unless that is you've got very low standards and expectations of what a really good Chimaera can be.

And there are plenty of people happily tooling around in ropey Chimaeras, blissfully unaware of how their car should really perform & handle.

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
Art0ir said:
What would you be looking to pay for one in good in condition?

Sadly I don't have room for two of my own cars plus the missus' so it would be taking over daily duties (around 10k per annum).
The price you pay only has a limited baring on ensuring you secure a car that wont be hiding a raft of bills, it's the same with mileage so dont get all fixated on trying to find (and paying over the odds for) a low mileage car.

For example, you may be lucky & find a really nicely presented 1995 higher mileage 4.3 litre with all the big ticket jobs done, for say £7,500.

Equally you could pay £12,500 for a very clean looking low mileage 1999 5.0 litre, only to find it's hiding £4,000 of bills over the next three years.

Two ends of the scale I grant you, but relevant all the same.

In some ways (especially with a TVR) you're better off buying an older higher mileage car that's had all those expensive jobs paid for by a caring owner, than thinking you can simply buy your way into reliability & low cost ownership.

At least with the older higher mileage car it's had time to present the faults & wear a few bits out, if you're really lucky you may find the owner has improved it from it's original factory specification as he's gone along too.

If you do find such a car it could easily cost you £5,000 less to buy and £4,000 less to own over the first three years, Ok so you'll still have a 4.3 litre not a late model mighty 5.0 litre, but the 4.3 could well be the faster car if that 5.0 litre has even a small amount of cam wear.

And you'll be saving a massive £9,000 over three years, that's more in savings alone than you paid for your older but wonderfully revvy 260HP 4.3 in the first place!!!

A proper thorough pre-purchase inspection is always going to be much better value for money than trying to use your cheque book to secure a better car.

And if you buy from a dealer you're just paying the dealer's mortgage, where do you think he bought the car from in the first place?

The dealer hunts privately, looking for desperate sellers who will take a below market value offer, you need to hunt for the same seller and beat the dealer to it wink

Think about it, if the dealer's guarantee ends up saving you more than if you'd bought the same car privately, then he's not a very good dealer and probably wont be in business for very long.

Dealers need to make a profit & dont get me wrong there's nothing wrong with that, just as long as you keep in mind what your often paying the extra for is his overheads, his salary, plus the smiles & cups of coffee he gave you.

It's very unlikely you'll actually be using your extra cash to secure a more reliable & cheaper TVR to run over the next three years.

Well that's the way I see it.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 20th January 14:04

Art0ir

9,423 posts

200 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
Mileage doesn't concern me greatly. Something that has the big ticket items you mentioned sorted would be ideal. I take great pleasure in working on cars so anything not beyond the ability of a hobbyist mechanic can be sorted by myself.

I'm just looking for a ballpark figure really.

This seems ideal.

Edited by Art0ir on Monday 20th January 14:24

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

209 months

Monday 20th January 2014
quotequote all
Art0ir said:
Mileage doesn't concern me greatly. Something that has the big ticket items you mentioned sorted would be ideal. I take great pleasure in working on cars so anything not beyond the ability of a hobbyist mechanic can be sorted by myself.

I'm just looking for a ballpark figure really.
I'm inclined to answer with "How long is a piece of string", you could always start by revealing a ballpark idea of you're budget.

But being more constructive lets just say "Your answer is in the TVR classifieds on PH".

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...

But it's not the only place to find a good Chimaera:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/TVR-/108780/i.html?_nkw=...

http://www.tvr-webmart.co.uk/tvr_list_cars.asp?mod...

So get browsing and before long you'll have a feel for the market, well the asking prices anyway.

You'll quickly learn you can find Chimaeras from as little as £6,000 to as much as £18,000, but whatever your budget it's securing the car that doesn't reveal a stack of big ticket jobs in the first three years of ownership that will be the one you're after.

Chimaeras that tick that box exist within all the price points, but watch out.... Chimaeras hiding expensive bills exist across the full pricing spectrum too.

What you pay is somewhat meaningless, it's your ability to inspect and choose the right car that counts.

Pick a £ figure & specification that suits your budget then start viewing cars as a realist with your eyes wide open.

Take a few hours to read on these pages about what commonly goes wrong with these cars, that time you invest in researching the breed will pay big dividends, but that's up to you, take responsibility because while this advice is free no one will spoon feed you the perfect car.

Get it right and you'll be laughing... get it wrong and you'll be selling up at a loss and telling all your friends down the pub how awful and unreliable TVRs are and feeding all the existing myths.

Truth is if you do get it wrong it's not like you didn't get really comprehensive free and friendly advice from those that know..the existing owners of these great cars.

Accept or ignore the advice as you see fit, and good luck with your hunt thumbup