Harness top fixings
Discussion
I have bought some full harnesses for track days. Lower fixings I will at least try to attach where the standard inertia reel seatbelts fix. Got that one covered for now.
The fixing bosses for the shoulder straps are, I understand, on the chassis and therefore behind the parcel shelf fibreglass. I therefore need to make holes.....
I have the eye bolts ready to install
Before I turn my parcel shelf into a mark one Tuscan grille, can anyone please post photographs of where said fixings are (or where they have drilled through, ideally with a note of the distance between the fixings so that i can get an accurate fix on the position. I'd love to "measure twice, drill once" if at all possible
The fixing bosses for the shoulder straps are, I understand, on the chassis and therefore behind the parcel shelf fibreglass. I therefore need to make holes.....
I have the eye bolts ready to installBefore I turn my parcel shelf into a mark one Tuscan grille, can anyone please post photographs of where said fixings are (or where they have drilled through, ideally with a note of the distance between the fixings so that i can get an accurate fix on the position. I'd love to "measure twice, drill once" if at all possible
QBee said:
I have bought some full harnesses for track days. Lower fixings I will at least try to attach where the standard inertia reel seatbelts fix. Got that one covered for now.
The fixing bosses for the shoulder straps are, I understand, on the chassis and therefore behind the parcel shelf fibreglass. I therefore need to make holes.....I have the eye bolts ready to install
Before I turn my parcel shelf into a mark one Tuscan grille, can anyone please post photographs of where said fixings are (or where they have drilled through, ideally with a note of the distance between the fixings so that i can get an accurate fix on the position. I'd love to "measure twice, drill once" if at all possible
Anthony, have you read this thread? http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...The fixing bosses for the shoulder straps are, I understand, on the chassis and therefore behind the parcel shelf fibreglass. I therefore need to make holes.....
I have the eye bolts ready to installBefore I turn my parcel shelf into a mark one Tuscan grille, can anyone please post photographs of where said fixings are (or where they have drilled through, ideally with a note of the distance between the fixings so that i can get an accurate fix on the position. I'd love to "measure twice, drill once" if at all possible
I do hope you do have a roll-over bar? It will then be bolted into the end of the chassis (rear of the parcel shelf you were referring to). Your harness would then need to be attached to the roll-over bar??
Trev
ianwayne said:
I hope the bottom seatbelt fixing bolt doesn't seize and shear for you.
10 years ago, mine did and I ended up having to mount the fixed end on the same bolt as the inertia reel. It was on the passenger side and passed the MoT like that but I was always unsure about it!?
I will be unbolting the bottom inertia reel fixings, and inserting the eyebolts (I have a set of 2 inch, 7/16th UNF eyebolts) to the same holes, to hold both the inertia reel belts and be an anchor for the harnesses. 10 years ago, mine did and I ended up having to mount the fixed end on the same bolt as the inertia reel. It was on the passenger side and passed the MoT like that but I was always unsure about it!?
The harnesses have a spring clip hook at all ends, so I intend to clip the harnesses in only for track days, reverting to the inertia reel belts for road use. Like you, I am hoping that the bolts won't shear off, as that would be a real pain with a track day coming up on Saturday.
K4TRV said:
Anthony, have you read this thread? http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I do hope you do have a roll-over bar? It will then be bolted into the end of the chassis (rear of the parcel shelf you were referring to). Your harness would then need to be attached to the roll-over bar??
Trev
I appreciate your concern Trev, kind and well meant - nice to know someone cares!I do hope you do have a roll-over bar? It will then be bolted into the end of the chassis (rear of the parcel shelf you were referring to). Your harness would then need to be attached to the roll-over bar??
Trev
I started track daying in 2012 and pretty quickly worked out that my head might be worth more than £500, so bought a Rollcentre Racing roll hoop. I will only be using the harnesses for track days, so will always be wearing a helmet of course.
Problem with this hoop is that the harness shoulder strap fixings are on the vertical bar that is exactly behind the centre of each seat, touching the back of the headrest, so too close unless you have Westfield type harnesses.
I saw this when I went to the factory to inspect the build (I lived close to St Ives, Cambs, and fancied seeing the Moslers in the next door unit), so asked them to install the fixings (threaded bosses) into the rear verticals, which are nearer the centre of the car. Neither place is ideal, so I will not be fixing the harnesses to the hoop.
My TVR guy tells me that on my 99 car TVR welded harness fixing bosses into the chassis immediately behind the passenger compartment, and that all I need to do is to locate them and screw my eyebolts into them. However, this means cutting a core out of the fibreglass in the correct position.
I can (and will) get the car jacked up, a rear wheel off, and will find the bosses from underneath if I have to, but it would be easier just to know where to drill from inside the car, frankly.
Just had a brain wave, and got the Steve Heath "Bible" out. 
And there, on pages 299-302, is a full description of where the fixing points are on the Griff 500 and post-96 Griffs and Chims. They are on the rear, upper, outermost corners of the chassis, right by the rear upper wishbone mounting, and they face upwards. So now I need to find said wishbone mountings from underneath, find the harness mounts, and drill straight through them and into the fibreglass from underneath, having first removed the carpet inside the car.
Simples.
And there, on pages 299-302, is a full description of where the fixing points are on the Griff 500 and post-96 Griffs and Chims. They are on the rear, upper, outermost corners of the chassis, right by the rear upper wishbone mounting, and they face upwards. So now I need to find said wishbone mountings from underneath, find the harness mounts, and drill straight through them and into the fibreglass from underneath, having first removed the carpet inside the car.
Simples.
QBee said:
I appreciate your concern Trev, kind and well meant - nice to know someone cares!
I started track daying in 2012 and pretty quickly worked out that my head might be worth more than £500, so bought a Rollcentre Racing roll hoop. I will only be using the harnesses for track days, so will always be wearing a helmet of course.
Problem with this hoop is that the harness shoulder strap fixings are on the vertical bar that is exactly behind the centre of each seat, touching the back of the headrest, so too close unless you have Westfield type harnesses.
I saw this when I went to the factory to inspect the build (I lived close to St Ives, Cambs, and fancied seeing the Moslers in the next door unit), so asked them to install the fixings (threaded bosses) into the rear verticals, which are nearer the centre of the car. Neither place is ideal, so I will not be fixing the harnesses to the hoop.
My TVR guy tells me that on my 99 car TVR welded harness fixing bosses into the chassis immediately behind the passenger compartment, and that all I need to do is to locate them and screw my eyebolts into them. However, this means cutting a core out of the fibreglass in the correct position.
I can (and will) get the car jacked up, a rear wheel off, and will find the bosses from underneath if I have to, but it would be easier just to know where to drill from inside the car, frankly.
Anthony, yes, it was meant as a well meaning response 8-))I started track daying in 2012 and pretty quickly worked out that my head might be worth more than £500, so bought a Rollcentre Racing roll hoop. I will only be using the harnesses for track days, so will always be wearing a helmet of course.
Problem with this hoop is that the harness shoulder strap fixings are on the vertical bar that is exactly behind the centre of each seat, touching the back of the headrest, so too close unless you have Westfield type harnesses.
I saw this when I went to the factory to inspect the build (I lived close to St Ives, Cambs, and fancied seeing the Moslers in the next door unit), so asked them to install the fixings (threaded bosses) into the rear verticals, which are nearer the centre of the car. Neither place is ideal, so I will not be fixing the harnesses to the hoop.
My TVR guy tells me that on my 99 car TVR welded harness fixing bosses into the chassis immediately behind the passenger compartment, and that all I need to do is to locate them and screw my eyebolts into them. However, this means cutting a core out of the fibreglass in the correct position.
I can (and will) get the car jacked up, a rear wheel off, and will find the bosses from underneath if I have to, but it would be easier just to know where to drill from inside the car, frankly.
I've not seen or heard of your "harness fixings to the chassis", only the fixing I had my roll bar (TR Lane) bolt to in the diff area on the chassis? I hope they are not confusing this with where the roll-bar mounts? I had a lotus elise seat in the Chim and the straps were a bit tight around the neck area of the seat.
I wish you well and I'll get to one of your track days sometime!!
Good luck
Trev
QBee said:
Just had a brain wave, and got the Steve Heath "Bible" out.
And there, on pages 299-302, is a full description of where the fixing points are on the Griff 500 and post-96 Griffs and Chims. They are on the rear, upper, outermost corners of the chassis, right by the rear upper wishbone mounting, and they face upwards. So now I need to find said wishbone mountings from underneath, find the harness mounts, and drill straight through them and into the fibreglass from underneath, having first removed the carpet inside the car.
Simples.
So what part of the chassis does the Roll Bar mount to?? Just onto the interia reel mounting area??And there, on pages 299-302, is a full description of where the fixing points are on the Griff 500 and post-96 Griffs and Chims. They are on the rear, upper, outermost corners of the chassis, right by the rear upper wishbone mounting, and they face upwards. So now I need to find said wishbone mountings from underneath, find the harness mounts, and drill straight through them and into the fibreglass from underneath, having first removed the carpet inside the car.
Simples.
Trev
K4TRV said:
QBee said:
Just had a brain wave, and got the Steve Heath "Bible" out.
And there, on pages 299-302, is a full description of where the fixing points are on the Griff 500 and post-96 Griffs and Chims. They are on the rear, upper, outermost corners of the chassis, right by the rear upper wishbone mounting, and they face upwards. So now I need to find said wishbone mountings from underneath, find the harness mounts, and drill straight through them and into the fibreglass from underneath, having first removed the carpet inside the car.
Simples.
So what part of the chassis does the Roll Bar mount to?? Just onto the interia reel mounting area??And there, on pages 299-302, is a full description of where the fixing points are on the Griff 500 and post-96 Griffs and Chims. They are on the rear, upper, outermost corners of the chassis, right by the rear upper wishbone mounting, and they face upwards. So now I need to find said wishbone mountings from underneath, find the harness mounts, and drill straight through them and into the fibreglass from underneath, having first removed the carpet inside the car.
Simples.
Trev
QBee said:
My roll cage mounts at the front to the diagonal chassis members that go downwards from the damper mounting to the corner of the outrigger, and at the rear to the rear upper chassis tube, inboard of the harness mounts - the rear tubes are level with the inner edges of the seats. The harnesses mount where a number of roll cages mount (eg the TR lane one), as in the pic below
No can see pikkies at work 8-((Not sure where you now mean in relation to another fixing point(s) on the chassis to bolt the eyelets to??
I'll have a look when I get home.
T
Thanks Andy, I can see what you mean, but:
1. I have the seat right back against the roll cage, so would have had to have very short shoulder straps, and
2. Like the muppet I am, I got them to move the fixings during manufacture onto the sloping uprights, as I thought I knew better.
However, the 96 onwards cars do have mounting bosses on the chassis, as per the pic i posted, so I will go with that alternative.
1. I have the seat right back against the roll cage, so would have had to have very short shoulder straps, and
2. Like the muppet I am, I got them to move the fixings during manufacture onto the sloping uprights, as I thought I knew better.
However, the 96 onwards cars do have mounting bosses on the chassis, as per the pic i posted, so I will go with that alternative.
Subject to what i find when i am on my back tomorrow with my legs in the air (shurrup!!), I think I am indeed sorted.
But I do say a big thanks for all the input. I will be very careful getting my seat belt floor-level bolts undone. Lots of plus gas or WD40 and take my time. I am supposed to be on track on Saturday, so no margin for cockups.
But I do say a big thanks for all the input. I will be very careful getting my seat belt floor-level bolts undone. Lots of plus gas or WD40 and take my time. I am supposed to be on track on Saturday, so no margin for cockups.
fatboychim said:
Mine is a Rollcenter jobbie and the harness fixings work ok. Maybe they have altered the design since mine was done.
You can just about make them out in this.
Sorry, but IMHO I have to point this out. If you draw a line from the top of the roll hoop down to the plenum top (the 2 highest reinforced points on the car) you can see that the line crosses your shoulders just below your head. If you roll the car, that line will be where the ground is and your 4 point harness will hold you there. You can just about make them out in this.
The head should be some distance below this line (100mm), not above it, and the harness makes the situation worse as you can't possibly move out of the way. I'm aware that if you are rolling a car that you have no control over where your body goes, but I don't think that this roll hoop and harness is an improvement on the no hoop and praying to God version I have.
Sorry, but I had to point this out.
leerdam23 said:
fatboychim said:
Mine is a Rollcenter jobbie and the harness fixings work ok. Maybe they have altered the design since mine was done.
You can just about make them out in this.
Sorry, but IMHO I have to point this out. If you draw a line from the top of the roll hoop down to the plenum top (the 2 highest reinforced points on the car) you can see that the line crosses your shoulders just below your head. If you roll the car, that line will be where the ground is and your 4 point harness will hold you there. You can just about make them out in this.
The head should be some distance below this line (100mm), not above it, and the harness makes the situation worse as you can't possibly move out of the way. I'm aware that if you are rolling a car that you have no control over where your body goes, but I don't think that this roll hoop and harness is an improvement on the no hoop and praying to God version I have.
Sorry, but I had to point this out.
My seat is a lot further back than Andy's, right against the roll cage vertical, and much more reclined, so the top of my head is just in front of the roll cage and well below it, even with a helmet on. And the way mine is installed, the cage is a matter of a few millimetres below the targa hoop. To say it is a neat fit is an understatement.
What I didn;t say above is that I also am hoping that the race seats (or the Elise seats, not decided which yet) that I am also installing tomorrow will make me even lower in the car. I am a mere 6 ft, but Phazed is 6 ft 3 and has to use Elise seats with a helmet on, but they get him well below the roll cage line.
leerdam23 said:
Sorry, but IMHO I have to point this out. If you draw a line from the top of the roll hoop down to the plenum top (the 2 highest reinforced points on the car) you can see that the line crosses your shoulders just below your head. If you roll the car, that line will be where the ground is and your 4 point harness will hold you there.
The head should be some distance below this line (100mm), not above it, and the harness makes the situation worse as you can't possibly move out of the way. I'm aware that if you are rolling a car that you have no control over where your body goes, but I don't think that this roll hoop and harness is an improvement on the no hoop and praying to God version I have.
Sorry, but I had to point this out.
It is something i became aware of a while back, after looking at photos on track. I'm not very tall but am long in the body and like to sit upright. Some photos seem to make the situation look worse than others. The head should be some distance below this line (100mm), not above it, and the harness makes the situation worse as you can't possibly move out of the way. I'm aware that if you are rolling a car that you have no control over where your body goes, but I don't think that this roll hoop and harness is an improvement on the no hoop and praying to God version I have.
Sorry, but I had to point this out.
I have drawn that line and in reality I seem to have 1-2 inches of head above it, not good.
I'm still inclined to think that in most bad situations I would be better off being strapped in rather than flapping around in a seatbelt.
I'm hoping a new set of front seats (soon) will make my head a little safer, although I'm pretty sure there's nothing too precious in the top 2 inches of my head. Thanks for your concern.
This is what I added to my TR Lane roll bar whilst I had my Chimaera. I'm only 5.5 and in a lotus seat. I felt well below the top of the extension.
As Simon (Leerdam23) has described, anyone getting close to the top of the roll bar in a helmet in a race harness, needs to appreciate the "Risk".
Just so long as owners appreciate what they are getting into?
Hope that helps to illustrate??
Trev
In a road/ trackday car there is also a conflict between the height of the roll bar and how close it is to the back of your head. On the road you won't have a lid on and probably only a seatbelt!
I can't see anyone getting 100mm under the rollbar/plenum axis in a Chim though.
The Elise seats look nice Leerdam and lumbar support as well by the look of it. I have priced the Intatrim seats for mine and am hoping to get up there and try them out.
I can't see anyone getting 100mm under the rollbar/plenum axis in a Chim though.
The Elise seats look nice Leerdam and lumbar support as well by the look of it. I have priced the Intatrim seats for mine and am hoping to get up there and try them out.
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