Oil temperature gauge
Discussion
OK, so paranoia is setting in. 
My car has been running fine on track days, even on the hottest days with me giving it a full plate of beans, the water temperature stays at 90 or below.
The recent thread on baffleddrivers sumps convinced me to order one, with 1.5 litres of extra oil capacity, on the grounds that if I blow several grands worth of V8D engine I will be right royally pissed off with myself 
, but I draw the line at an oil cooler without further evidence that it is needed.
A well respected member of the 5.5 litre Chimaera track day community is planning to fit a combined digital oil temperature and pressure gauge in his car. Excellent idea, the piece of kit he is proposing not only gives instant read-outs (if you have the time to look), but you can programme warning lights to alert you should the pressure or temperature get beyond what you decide to be a safe working range.
Three things are bothering me:
1. I don't want to alter the dials in my dash itself
2. I do want to be alerted to either temperature or pressure going out of range (I have tried to look at the pressure gauge while braking hard and throwing the car into a tight left-hander, but not managed it so far, but have never caught sight of the pressure being less than 30 psi on the standard TVR gauge at full chat on track).
3. I want to get the boss(es) for the sensors welded into the new sump while it is being made, not after i have fitted it.
So please can the esteeminged collective advise me on:
A. Where, and how, to mount the gauge so that it is both visible to me but doesn't muck up the layout of the standard dash and
B. If it is possible to have two oil pressure gauges connected at the same time, and if so where would you position the digital sensors?
C. What temperature and pressure settings you would advise for the warning lights?
My car has been running fine on track days, even on the hottest days with me giving it a full plate of beans, the water temperature stays at 90 or below.
The recent thread on baffled
, but I draw the line at an oil cooler without further evidence that it is needed.A well respected member of the 5.5 litre Chimaera track day community is planning to fit a combined digital oil temperature and pressure gauge in his car. Excellent idea, the piece of kit he is proposing not only gives instant read-outs (if you have the time to look), but you can programme warning lights to alert you should the pressure or temperature get beyond what you decide to be a safe working range.
Three things are bothering me:
1. I don't want to alter the dials in my dash itself
2. I do want to be alerted to either temperature or pressure going out of range (I have tried to look at the pressure gauge while braking hard and throwing the car into a tight left-hander, but not managed it so far, but have never caught sight of the pressure being less than 30 psi on the standard TVR gauge at full chat on track).
3. I want to get the boss(es) for the sensors welded into the new sump while it is being made, not after i have fitted it.
So please can the esteem
A. Where, and how, to mount the gauge so that it is both visible to me but doesn't muck up the layout of the standard dash and
B. If it is possible to have two oil pressure gauges connected at the same time, and if so where would you position the digital sensors?
C. What temperature and pressure settings you would advise for the warning lights?
QBee said:
OK, so paranoia is setting in.
My car has been running fine on track days, even on the hottest days with me giving it a full plate of beans, the water temperature stays at 90 or below.
The recent thread on baffleddrivers sumps convinced me to order one, with 1.5 litres of extra oil capacity, on the grounds that if I blow several grands worth of V8D engine I will be right royally pissed off with myself , but I draw the line at an oil cooler without further evidence that it is needed.
A well respected member of the 5.5 litre Chimaera track day community is planning to fit a combined digital oil temperature and pressure gauge in his car. Excellent idea, the piece of kit he is proposing not only gives instant read-outs (if you have the time to look), but you can programme warning lights to alert you should the pressure or temperature get beyond what you decide to be a safe working range.
Three things are bothering me:
1. I don't want to alter the dials in my dash itself
2. I do want to be alerted to either temperature or pressure going out of range (I have tried to look at the pressure gauge while braking hard and throwing the car into a tight left-hander, but not managed it so far, but have never caught sight of the pressure being less than 30 psi on the standard TVR gauge at full chat on track).
3. I want to get the boss(es) for the sensors welded into the new sump while it is being made, not after i have fitted it.
So please can the esteeminged collective advise me on:
A. Where, and how, to mount the gauge so that it is both visible to me but doesn't muck up the layout of the standard dash and
B. If it is possible to have two oil pressure gauges connected at the same time, and if so where would you position the digital sensors?
C. What temperature and pressure settings you would advise for the warning lights?
You already have a oil pressure gauge so why not junk the clock and fit this ,is the take off what Phazed as used ok for oil temp ?My car has been running fine on track days, even on the hottest days with me giving it a full plate of beans, the water temperature stays at 90 or below.
The recent thread on baffled
, but I draw the line at an oil cooler without further evidence that it is needed.A well respected member of the 5.5 litre Chimaera track day community is planning to fit a combined digital oil temperature and pressure gauge in his car. Excellent idea, the piece of kit he is proposing not only gives instant read-outs (if you have the time to look), but you can programme warning lights to alert you should the pressure or temperature get beyond what you decide to be a safe working range.
Three things are bothering me:
1. I don't want to alter the dials in my dash itself
2. I do want to be alerted to either temperature or pressure going out of range (I have tried to look at the pressure gauge while braking hard and throwing the car into a tight left-hander, but not managed it so far, but have never caught sight of the pressure being less than 30 psi on the standard TVR gauge at full chat on track).
3. I want to get the boss(es) for the sensors welded into the new sump while it is being made, not after i have fitted it.
So please can the esteem
A. Where, and how, to mount the gauge so that it is both visible to me but doesn't muck up the layout of the standard dash and
B. If it is possible to have two oil pressure gauges connected at the same time, and if so where would you position the digital sensors?
C. What temperature and pressure settings you would advise for the warning lights?
How do you wire pressure and temp ,this one looks good
Edited by SILICONEKID346HP on Sunday 2nd March 11:57
Thanks Daz, I didn't know there was a TVR standard oil temperature gauge. Good to know.
The Spa Design kit does look good, I agree, and they do a combined oil pressure and temperature gauge like the one you showed, complete with warning lights and sensors.
That's the one chosen by our mutual fiend.
I think that I probably need a digital gauge, as I need to be aware of something flashing
if I have even a short-lived loss of pressure.
And frankly, at a track like Cadwell with very little straight, warning lights for overheating would also be useful. There are straights, but I tend to spend my time on them getting past Porsches
The Spa Design kit does look good, I agree, and they do a combined oil pressure and temperature gauge like the one you showed, complete with warning lights and sensors.
That's the one chosen by our mutual fiend.
I think that I probably need a digital gauge, as I need to be aware of something flashing
if I have even a short-lived loss of pressure. And frankly, at a track like Cadwell with very little straight, warning lights for overheating would also be useful. There are straights, but I tend to spend my time on them getting past Porsches
QBee said:
Some oily stuff
I understand that you would like to monitor more than the standard gauges allow, and that one might also want the accuracy of 'mechanical' gauges, and I am very sympathetic to keeping the dash original.I accomplished all of this in my MG Midget by simply mounting a gauge panel under the standard dashboard. An option I appreciate is not open to you, so...
I am thinking Cerbera style instrument pod on the steering column underside?
One question though; I know it has been discussed, but I have not seen anyone give a solid reason for not using a thermostatic take-off for an oil cooler.
I used them on my MGs (1500s) to great effect and no disasters.
With a thermostatic control you know the oil is being cooled only when needed.
Full kits are readily available for RV8 based engines ( Brown & Gammons as one example), so why not simply install one for peace of mind?
Anyone have an answer? Why not use thermostatic control on your oil cooler?
ETA
You might also note the dual oil/temp gauge fitted to the Cerb dash
Edited by Goaty Bill on Sunday 2nd March 11:38
Goaty Bill said:
QBee said:
Some oily stuff
some Cerb dash and oil cooler stuffI like the steering wheel pod idea, and might be able to get my mitts on a Cerb one, Cerbera dual instrument is also a good idea, if it goes high enough for oil temperature (that one on the pic is water temp?) . Showing what i don't know here
QBee said:
My TVR expert is quite nervous of cooling the oil when not needed.....as am I. On a cold day at 70 on the A1 I can see the water temp rarely get above 60 degrees, and my toes are frozen, and that's without the benefit of an oil cooler.
I like the steering wheel pod idea, and might be able to get my mitts on a Cerb one, Cerbera dual instrument is also a good idea, if it goes high enough for oil temperature (that one on the pic is water temp?) . Showing what i don't know here
The remote stat on the sandwich plate takes care of that !I like the steering wheel pod idea, and might be able to get my mitts on a Cerb one, Cerbera dual instrument is also a good idea, if it goes high enough for oil temperature (that one on the pic is water temp?) . Showing what i don't know here
You can order the oil temp gauge which looks standard from caerbont or Speedy cables ,we could have a bulk order .
I don`t want flashing lights ,just keep it looking standard by removing the clock .
I`m wondering if they could adapt the clock
http://www.caigauge.com/
QBee said:
My TVR expert is quite nervous of cooling the oil when not needed.....as am I.
SILICONEKID346HP said:
The remote stat on the sandwich plate takes care of that !
^^^What he said too
Thermostatic sandwich plate, or similar oil take off.
The oil only travels through the cooler when it reaches a specific temperature.
I use an SPA dual gauge to monitor oil temperature, with the sensor in the gallery where the LR oil cooler would return - readings from there regularly exceed water temps on the oem gauge by significant amounts when caning it. I have seen 120 deg C on frequent occasions on warm days so for extended track use would think a cooler would be useful but maybe unnecessary for normal road use.
Although supposed to be 52mm dia, the SPA gauges will not fit the TVR dash apertures; at least not the later ally bezel Caerbont style ones. Will need opening up by a good couple of mm which is not an easy task if you want to keep veneer intact. Have to do this again soon as an intercooler in and out temp gauge will be replacing my backward running clock.
SPA quality is top notch however.
Although supposed to be 52mm dia, the SPA gauges will not fit the TVR dash apertures; at least not the later ally bezel Caerbont style ones. Will need opening up by a good couple of mm which is not an easy task if you want to keep veneer intact. Have to do this again soon as an intercooler in and out temp gauge will be replacing my backward running clock.
SPA quality is top notch however.
Pupp said:
... with the sensor in the gallery where the LR oil cooler would return...
As I've tried to highlight (too many times) the sensor in the sump is pretty much a waste of time, unless you just want to impress folks with the number of gauges you have...I still think it makes far more sense to move the pressure sensor to the bung in the side of timing cover (where Gary has fitted his temp sensor) and fit the temp sensor underneath in place of the pressure sensor (keeping the relatively expensive pressure sensor away from the road crap / exhaust heat etc..).
This all goes out of the window if you are sensible & use water oil cooling, which seems expansive but by the time you start buying sandwich plates, stats, pipes , cooler , brackets doesn't work out any more expensive and has the added benefits of warming the oil.
Would it be a good idea to ask the Morgan race boys what there doing if anything Anthony!
Surely if its track use that's worrying you they'll know what if anything is required.
I've watched the Morgan's racing and there not slow, if they are using oil coolers/ temp gauges then fair enough.
Other than to monitor things is it really necessary.
All I know is when I asked my engine builder about a drop in pressure he asked does the oil warning light illuminate, I said no. He shrugged his shoulders and said nothing to worry about!
Remember he's giving a 5 year warrantee and I was going to trackday the car regularly as he knew!
Its a great idea to have the extra monitoring but if your flying there's no chance of looking at gauges into or around corners anyway, if you can glance at your dials your going to slow, lol
Anthony bell the guy who's doing the sumps, he works with the Morgans, if your getting extra capacity I think he's going to say its needless, I might be wrong mind.
This is very important and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but those Morgans race very very hard!
Surely if its track use that's worrying you they'll know what if anything is required.
I've watched the Morgan's racing and there not slow, if they are using oil coolers/ temp gauges then fair enough.
Other than to monitor things is it really necessary.
All I know is when I asked my engine builder about a drop in pressure he asked does the oil warning light illuminate, I said no. He shrugged his shoulders and said nothing to worry about!
Remember he's giving a 5 year warrantee and I was going to trackday the car regularly as he knew!
Its a great idea to have the extra monitoring but if your flying there's no chance of looking at gauges into or around corners anyway, if you can glance at your dials your going to slow, lol
Anthony bell the guy who's doing the sumps, he works with the Morgans, if your getting extra capacity I think he's going to say its needless, I might be wrong mind.
This is very important and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but those Morgans race very very hard!
Alun450 said:
Anthony bell the guy who's doing the sumps, he works with the Morgans, if your getting extra capacity I think he's going to say its needless, I might be wrong mind.
This is very important and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but those Morgans race very very hard!
I emailed him to ask if he could weld in a boss - to which his answer was "yes - what size?". But I didn't ask the question - "is it necessary?"This is very important and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but those Morgans race very very hard!
I will give him a call.
Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I actually like the differences of opinion, as a full discussion around the subject is really useful. As you can tell, I am not just in two minds, I am in several
I had assumed that the oil temp sensor would go in the sump, and I don't actually know where the oil pressure sensor presently resides, so will check. After reading Spend's take on the positions I am more keen than ever to get it right and his idea of reversing them seems to make sense. Pupp's remarks about oil temperatures are the reason why I run 10w60 oil, as my understanding was that it would be better capable of dealing with the higher temperatures seen when on track and so maintaining pressure.
Diverting to the oil cooler debate, rather than waste people's time going over it all again, I will go back to the previous thread to read up on the pros and cons of water/oil cooling against air/oil cooling. I have already been advised by my TVR guy (let's call him "Mat Smith" for want of a better name) that an air/oil cooler is only any good if the air is actually forced to pass through it, and I have yet to get my head around how putting more heat into the, already hot, water cooling system does the engine any favours. So it's reading time for me
The three questions this immediately begs for me -
1. If I throw the towel in and go for an oil cooler of some description, I would seem to be doing everything i can for the engine, so do i still need a gauge?
2. What, ball-parkianly speaking, are the total installed costs of the two versions of an oil cooler?
3. Is it possible to get programmable warning lights on their own, without gauges, to alert me to low oil pressure or high oil and/or water temperature? I realise I already have a Mission Impossible oil warning light, which tells me that my engine will self-destruct in five seconds.
ukdj said:
Anthony,
Rather than add another gauge why not add a flashing LED to the spare lamp holder at the bottom of the tacho, it would be relatively simple electronics to hook up once you have the sender in place and will be in your line of vision.
Regards
UKDJ
Thanks - another good thought. Rather than add another gauge why not add a flashing LED to the spare lamp holder at the bottom of the tacho, it would be relatively simple electronics to hook up once you have the sender in place and will be in your line of vision.
Regards
UKDJ
QBee said:
... and I have yet to get my head around how putting more heat into the, already hot, water cooling system does the engine any favours...
That's ill-conceived flawed logic...Water is hot when the car is not moving ~ at which stage oil is cool as engine is not laboured...
Oil is hot when making haste, at which stage coolant is normally fine due to rushing air...
So they actually compliment each other, and in fact oil/water cooling will reduce any of the transient peaks when the different situations cross by lowering the stored latent heat capacity from many of the parts.
Using water/oil cooling will only increase the rad load if you are a rolling road / traffic light queen, but arguably the flip side will be that you ensure your oil is warmed better..
The only thing I dont like is the flow being 'stopped dead' in the block by the stat & would always advise upgrading to a cerb style remote 'full bypass' stat on any engine of note.
Thank you for the explanation. I understand it better now, and I think my only concern would be when i am running at max temps, which is either at full chat on the track, or stuck at roadworks or in town traffic - I do use my TVR whenever possible and for 12,000 miles a year. 
There seem to be about 75 water/oil coolers on the Burton Power website linky, its now just a case of working out which one, but I guess that depends on capacity (larger presumably better) and pipe sizes, which i can get from the bible. Whereabouts would you link it into the two systems?
There seem to be about 75 water/oil coolers on the Burton Power website linky, its now just a case of working out which one, but I guess that depends on capacity (larger presumably better) and pipe sizes, which i can get from the bible. Whereabouts would you link it into the two systems?
Edited by QBee on Sunday 2nd March 15:24
Im interested in this as thinking of putting an oil temp guage in the racer. I drivr yhe car bloody hard but can always make time to look at the guages (straights and bends where poss) and as I had oil pressure issues last year where it was falling away when engine not under load once hot Im now a bit more nervous lol... People must make time to look (even glance) at guages or risk big damage lol... We have them all set so at a glance everything should be straight up!
We have a remote filter where pressure switch is taken from. Need to think on best placr for oil temp takeoff...
We have a remote filter where pressure switch is taken from. Need to think on best placr for oil temp takeoff...
Do you have an alley rad Anthony? When I had mine fitted I also had new fans, got stuck on M40 for about an hour last summer, panic setting in yet the gauge stayed at 90, fans cut in a few times but cut off just as quick as soon as the traffic slowed I put heater on, hot, after 40 mins only marginally hotter although I'd nearly blown my own head gasket. Tongue hanging out. I digress,
If the water temp stays cool then so does the engine,,,,, I hope!
When I first got the car and sat in traffic within 5 mins the heater was much hotter.
My alley rad seems really efficient and the car never goes above 90.
As you know I've not had chance to track the car since last year but when I did even after 20 odd mins then coming back into pits I always open bonnet. Engine was no hotter than normal, I was going flat out all the way down that run way, its about 6 miles long isn't it, lol. Clocked 155 loads of times 160 once!
I told Dom how I drove it and he was saying so what go and do as many trackdays as you like!!!!
If we need oil coolers they'll all be trying to get us buying them!
Weirdly I do wonder because most performance cars have coolers so ??????
Maybe the 5.0L is different, cold feet???? Something's not right there, even with the alley rad and in - temps my car would come up to temp no problems and running at speed makes little difference. Metal rad, the temp went up and down more often than I liked, bad for my nervous disposition, ( eye twitching) lol lol .
If the water temp stays cool then so does the engine,,,,, I hope!
When I first got the car and sat in traffic within 5 mins the heater was much hotter.
My alley rad seems really efficient and the car never goes above 90.
As you know I've not had chance to track the car since last year but when I did even after 20 odd mins then coming back into pits I always open bonnet. Engine was no hotter than normal, I was going flat out all the way down that run way, its about 6 miles long isn't it, lol. Clocked 155 loads of times 160 once!
I told Dom how I drove it and he was saying so what go and do as many trackdays as you like!!!!
If we need oil coolers they'll all be trying to get us buying them!
Weirdly I do wonder because most performance cars have coolers so ??????
Maybe the 5.0L is different, cold feet???? Something's not right there, even with the alley rad and in - temps my car would come up to temp no problems and running at speed makes little difference. Metal rad, the temp went up and down more often than I liked, bad for my nervous disposition, ( eye twitching) lol lol .
Alun, I get cold legs and feet on a motorway at 6am in February - as many others have found too. The engine just never gets above an indicated 60-65 degrees unless you stop for five minutes in traffic, and so the heater is luke warm. The five litre does generally run hotter than the 4 litre, in my experience, different engines in same car, but mine never goes above 90, the fans cut in and keep things sane.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff