Numberplate Dilema
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm convinced that my car would run a lot cooler with the front number plate changing. It runs at the normal Griff temperatures of about sensible on a run and then melting hot in traffic
Options are -
Smaller front plate which is illegal
Stick on which is illegal
No plate which is illegal
I have the full compliment of 7 figures on my plate so no option exists for trimmin much off a normal plate.
Who uses which of the above methods and how much difference does it make to running.
Dave
I'm convinced that my car would run a lot cooler with the front number plate changing. It runs at the normal Griff temperatures of about sensible on a run and then melting hot in traffic
Options are -
Smaller front plate which is illegal
Stick on which is illegal
No plate which is illegal
I have the full compliment of 7 figures on my plate so no option exists for trimmin much off a normal plate.
Who uses which of the above methods and how much difference does it make to running.
Dave
Hi Dave
I seem to remember from Steve's book that stick on plates, whilst strictly illegal, will *probably* be overlooked by plod. Many old E Types and the like use them with no problems and should be facing the same regulations! (Steve - please correct me if I'm mistaken)
You can also mount it slightly higher or lower which whilst not (IMO) looking quite as good would allow free flow to the rad.
On a similar note, I'm off to the South of France via Switzerland and Italy. If I remove my front plate to keep the car cooler and throw it in the boot what do the panel think my chances are of not getting a pull?
Italian front plates are tiny anyway and I coud also spin the "it's in the boot mon ami cus it just fell off" story?
It will probably run fine but I'm just curious.
Marco
I seem to remember from Steve's book that stick on plates, whilst strictly illegal, will *probably* be overlooked by plod. Many old E Types and the like use them with no problems and should be facing the same regulations! (Steve - please correct me if I'm mistaken)
You can also mount it slightly higher or lower which whilst not (IMO) looking quite as good would allow free flow to the rad.
On a similar note, I'm off to the South of France via Switzerland and Italy. If I remove my front plate to keep the car cooler and throw it in the boot what do the panel think my chances are of not getting a pull?
Italian front plates are tiny anyway and I coud also spin the "it's in the boot mon ami cus it just fell off" story?
It will probably run fine but I'm just curious.
Marco
Not got a Griffith but a Chimaera, I managed to trim my number plate down by over 1/3 to a much smaller size. Ok, so the reg no is only 2 numbers and one of them is a "1" anyway. However, you can actually trim quite a lot away.
I stuck with what a couple of people said on PH (MadCop I think) - keep the font the same, keep the spacing he same and keep the same edge spacing all the way round. Then this way it is stil in the letter of the law. Though picky plod might be a bit stroppy....
Not stricktly illegal though. Worth a try. Oh, and it makes a BIG difference to cooling. Runs cooler and cools down quicker after being stuck in traffic. Worth doing something.
Cheers,
Paul
I stuck with what a couple of people said on PH (MadCop I think) - keep the font the same, keep the spacing he same and keep the same edge spacing all the way round. Then this way it is stil in the letter of the law. Though picky plod might be a bit stroppy....
Not stricktly illegal though. Worth a try. Oh, and it makes a BIG difference to cooling. Runs cooler and cools down quicker after being stuck in traffic. Worth doing something.
Cheers,
Paul
The stick on ones are illegal but no one seems to care...
I'll be quite controversial here and say before you do anything check that the temp gauage is not overreading by a few degrees before chasing a problem that may or may not exist.
You also don't want to overcool the car too much as that screws up the fuel economy and increases the engine wear. 80-90 should be fine. Anything below that in summer is a bit suspicious...
If the car is melting in traffic (what temp does it get to) then playing with the number plate won't make that big a deal as the bulk of the air is sucked in through the openings at the front due to the angle of the rad and fans. Sure it will help when the car gets moving, but not when stationary.
If the car is overheating, it is usually a sign that something is wrong or not up to scratch. I really do not subscribe to the "they all do that" comment. If they do. I must have been very lucky in that I must have ordered the "I want one that doesn't" option. For the last 8 times...
Borrow/buy a digital IR rmote thermometer and see what the temps really are before doing anything further.
Steve
I'll be quite controversial here and say before you do anything check that the temp gauage is not overreading by a few degrees before chasing a problem that may or may not exist.
You also don't want to overcool the car too much as that screws up the fuel economy and increases the engine wear. 80-90 should be fine. Anything below that in summer is a bit suspicious...
If the car is melting in traffic (what temp does it get to) then playing with the number plate won't make that big a deal as the bulk of the air is sucked in through the openings at the front due to the angle of the rad and fans. Sure it will help when the car gets moving, but not when stationary.
If the car is overheating, it is usually a sign that something is wrong or not up to scratch. I really do not subscribe to the "they all do that" comment. If they do. I must have been very lucky in that I must have ordered the "I want one that doesn't" option. For the last 8 times...
Borrow/buy a digital IR rmote thermometer and see what the temps really are before doing anything further.
Steve
Thanks - not sure its the voice of reason, more the voice of "I've done that and wasted my time".
The temp thing is interesting. The head gasket went on the griff last week and the first indication was the temp creeping up over 90 while poodling back from Supercar Sunday. It was very hot but this was not normal. As the temp approached 100 I stopped and sure enough the mayo on the dip stick and inside the rocker cover was a dead giveaway. Water leaking into the oil. The level was about 2 inches higher as well.
The point is many owners have got to the point where excessive temps like these are almost treated as normality after all it's a TVR and they all do it. I suspect many would have said it is hot, it must be the car instead of stopping. I wonder how much enegine damage is done because owners simply ignore the first tell tales signs because "they all do that, sir".....
Makes you think.
Steve
The temp thing is interesting. The head gasket went on the griff last week and the first indication was the temp creeping up over 90 while poodling back from Supercar Sunday. It was very hot but this was not normal. As the temp approached 100 I stopped and sure enough the mayo on the dip stick and inside the rocker cover was a dead giveaway. Water leaking into the oil. The level was about 2 inches higher as well.
The point is many owners have got to the point where excessive temps like these are almost treated as normality after all it's a TVR and they all do it. I suspect many would have said it is hot, it must be the car instead of stopping. I wonder how much enegine damage is done because owners simply ignore the first tell tales signs because "they all do that, sir".....
Makes you think.
Steve
'You also don't want to overcool the car too much as that screws up the fuel economy and increases the engine wear. 80-90 should be fine. Anything below that in summer is a bit suspicious... '
On a cool or medium day at reasonable speed, mine says about 75, only increasing as speed reduces, eg in town. Markedly different to the old 4.0 which stayed rock steady in all conditions.
How can I check the temp accurately and cheaply, bearing in mind that the moment I stop, the temp will go up.
On a cool or medium day at reasonable speed, mine says about 75, only increasing as speed reduces, eg in town. Markedly different to the old 4.0 which stayed rock steady in all conditions.
How can I check the temp accurately and cheaply, bearing in mind that the moment I stop, the temp will go up.
I used to have a stick on plate fitted to my Eunos before the Griffith. I had the car 2 years and no hassle from plod.
Also our area co-ordinator back then removed his front plate for around 6 months (!!) with no hassle and choose to refit rather than being asked
I fancy no plate as the car would look as TVR intended but I'm not sure I dare risk it.
If I go for smaller plate I'll probably go the full monty picture background, strange font and logo on the plate
Car runs at between 80-90 ish and the fans cut in at around the line. It never seems to stay a steady temperature inn heavy traffic though rather than dropping.
Whilst my car was getting some TLC at Richard Thorpe Racing (Wedge) I had their manual switch fan loom fitted. Is this seperately fused from the normal thermostat circuit. If not theres a risk of failure still if the fuse blows from both fans coming on from the thermostat.
Dave
Also our area co-ordinator back then removed his front plate for around 6 months (!!) with no hassle and choose to refit rather than being asked
I fancy no plate as the car would look as TVR intended but I'm not sure I dare risk it.
If I go for smaller plate I'll probably go the full monty picture background, strange font and logo on the plate
Car runs at between 80-90 ish and the fans cut in at around the line. It never seems to stay a steady temperature inn heavy traffic though rather than dropping.
Whilst my car was getting some TLC at Richard Thorpe Racing (Wedge) I had their manual switch fan loom fitted. Is this seperately fused from the normal thermostat circuit. If not theres a risk of failure still if the fuse blows from both fans coming on from the thermostat.
Dave
quote:
You can not overcool a car with the correct water thermostat and in working order. Otherwise we could not drive in the winter.
It is such a simple basic theory.
The thermostat is not a complete gateway and water will leak into the rad. It also will start to allow water through before the offical opening temp is reached and many of the TVR fitted one have several holes drilled in them to enable some circulation. Yes there is some restriction but it does not mean that the radiator is totally isolated. End result is that the rad can provide some cooling before the engine has got to the stat temp. This can mean that the car runs slightly cooler than it should if the rad cooling is enhanced.
If a car is running cooler and nothing has been done to the car, then this is usually due to a faulty stat sticking open.
Sounds fine. To calibrate the temp gauge. Start car on drive and start engine and measure the temp of the block next to the temp sensor. I used an IR remote point and shoot one. Great for barbecues and working out cloud height BTW. About £70 from Burton Power. As temp gauge incresaes compare with your readings.
Steve
Steve
took my plate off totally whilst on holiday and was pulled by a strolling gendarme at the tolls.
oo ay la plat?
produced it frm behind pasenger seat.
ees kaput!
he waved me on
have now put on sticky one - passed and been passed by many plods with no trub (live near the m5 plod servicing site )
so far no problems - dropped temp a bit therefore keeping fans off more.
I now have samco's on so my water-wetter can go back in which will bring temp down to 75 / 80 on the move
andy griff 500
oo ay la plat?
produced it frm behind pasenger seat.
ees kaput!
he waved me on
have now put on sticky one - passed and been passed by many plods with no trub (live near the m5 plod servicing site )
so far no problems - dropped temp a bit therefore keeping fans off more.
I now have samco's on so my water-wetter can go back in which will bring temp down to 75 / 80 on the move
andy griff 500
I run a stag , which has far more legendary heating problems than a TVR :-) Such discussions go on regulary on the stag mailing list regarding cooling.
What does this have to do with TVR's?
Cooling system has to be up scratch.
1. blocked water galleries in block (casting sand for stags)
2. correct anti corrosion mix for location (no point mixing for -20deg when it only gets to -2deg
3. get rid of trapped air (common prob in stags cause water pump so high)
4. Ensure overflow bottle is empty at cold and check water level through radiator fill bolt.
5. Radiator is OK
6. I have used HPC coatings on the cast iron exhaust manifolds. Keeps them tidy and provides some reduction in heat. (there graphs are impressive) and was tested in NZ by a local performance magazine with some jappaturbothingy.
Whilst I do no swear by it , the temp is rock solid ,tested stationary->10mph in a traffic jam for 2 hours. It cost little more than getting someone to sandblast and spray with exhaust paint.
www.hpcoatings.com/exhaust_coatings.htm
I see they have a french agent
www.hpcoatings.com/contact_us.htm
cheers
Dean
What does this have to do with TVR's?
Cooling system has to be up scratch.
1. blocked water galleries in block (casting sand for stags)
2. correct anti corrosion mix for location (no point mixing for -20deg when it only gets to -2deg
3. get rid of trapped air (common prob in stags cause water pump so high)
4. Ensure overflow bottle is empty at cold and check water level through radiator fill bolt.
5. Radiator is OK
6. I have used HPC coatings on the cast iron exhaust manifolds. Keeps them tidy and provides some reduction in heat. (there graphs are impressive) and was tested in NZ by a local performance magazine with some jappaturbothingy.
Whilst I do no swear by it , the temp is rock solid ,tested stationary->10mph in a traffic jam for 2 hours. It cost little more than getting someone to sandblast and spray with exhaust paint.
www.hpcoatings.com/exhaust_coatings.htm
I see they have a french agent
www.hpcoatings.com/contact_us.htm
cheers
Dean
quote:
You also don't want to overcool the car too much as that screws up the fuel economy and increases the engine wear. 80-90 should be fine. Anything below that in summer is a bit suspicious...
If the car is melting in traffic (what temp does it get to) then playing with the number plate won't make that big a deal as the bulk of the air is sucked in through the openings at the front due to the angle of the rad and fans. Sure it will help when the car gets moving, but not when stationary.
If the car is overheating, it is usually a sign that something is wrong or not up to scratch. I really do not subscribe to the "they all do that" comment. If they do. I must have been very lucky in that I must have ordered the "I want one that doesn't" option. For the last 8 times...
Borrow/buy a digital IR rmote thermometer and see what the temps really are before doing anything further.
Steve
quote:
2. correct anti corrosion mix for location (no point mixing for -20deg when it only gets to -2deg
Whoaa you sponsored by the TVR dealers or something?
I live down sarf. It does get well below -2 at night in winter. It has got down to -6 in Spring! Many owners alaso drive to the frozen north so relying on not encountering a cold snap is like playing Russian Roulette. The higher antifreeze concentration also increase the anticorrosion properties which helps preserve the alloy V8 engine. This is why I really don't like Water Wetter as it works best in plain water and the risk of corrosion and freezing is pretty high.
As many owners seem to fail to check the oil and water more than once a year, I suspect that checking the antifreeze concentration is also forgotten about. I run on a 25-30% mix and it is fine.
Steve
shpub
all you say is so. BUT...
water wetter ( or similar ) does not replace anti-freeze and though it works best NEAT or in a mix with plain water it still works with anti-freeze.
in a normal anti-freeze water mix, its action helps return the thermo-characteristics to normal.
ie anti-freeze is cr*p at heat transfer
water is brill
water wetter is brill
therefore in system-
w/w brll
w/w + water very good
w/w + water + a/f pretty good + safe
water very good + very risky!
----------------------------------------
water + a/f not very good + safe
so the more w/w you put into the system, the greater the heat transfer and the lower running temp.
WITH OR WITHOUT the corect a/f mix
my mix is set to -20 degrees by the way
andy grif 500
ps it also has cleaners and lubricants etc
pps no i dont work for w/w !!
all you say is so. BUT...
water wetter ( or similar ) does not replace anti-freeze and though it works best NEAT or in a mix with plain water it still works with anti-freeze.
in a normal anti-freeze water mix, its action helps return the thermo-characteristics to normal.
ie anti-freeze is cr*p at heat transfer
water is brill
water wetter is brill
therefore in system-
w/w brll
w/w + water very good
w/w + water + a/f pretty good + safe
water very good + very risky!
----------------------------------------
water + a/f not very good + safe
so the more w/w you put into the system, the greater the heat transfer and the lower running temp.
WITH OR WITHOUT the corect a/f mix
my mix is set to -20 degrees by the way
andy grif 500
ps it also has cleaners and lubricants etc
pps no i dont work for w/w !!
quote:
shpub
all you say is so. BUT...
the point I was making was that if the only way to get the car run at the correct temps is to use WW with a 2% A/F mix then there are a lot of risks associated with the mixture freezing and cracking the block. Unless the weather forecast is checked everynight and the car tucked up in bed to keep it warm, this remains a big big risk. Seen many a TVR engine wrecked because the owner topped up with water and weakened the a/f mixture to the point where there wasn't any protection. Along came a frost and goodbye engine.
The other point is why use this stuff when most cars run at the proscribed temps with no problem. If the logic is that the car will run even cooler then I'm afraid that it will increase full consumption and as the ECU requires a temp of at least 90 to start adapting and tuning its memory map, the ECU will run on a less than optimum mapping which can cause other problems in the mid-long term.
WW is no doubt wonderful stuff but us with other cooling techniques if it results in an engine that is cooler than it should be, it is a bad idea. If it brings an engine back down into normality, it is hiding a symptom and not a cure for the fault that is causing the engine to overheat in the first place.
(honest Ociffer): 
Sounds like there is a market for someone to develop a decent water temperature measuring device.
I would not be surprised to find that a lot of owners (me included) spend far too much time eyeing the temp gauge just waiting for the car to burst into geysers of steam (judging by the number of posts) when in fact it could well be a overzealous temp gauge.
However, as my temperature rises, I do notice the car loosing the snappier throttle response it had at 70 when it reaches 90+, the oil pressure reduces and I notice an increase in pinking when on full throttle, so maybe I will still continue with my quest to loose some heat…
At least with a reliable, calibrated temp gauge I could be more confident in making mods and measuring their effect…..
I would not be surprised to find that a lot of owners (me included) spend far too much time eyeing the temp gauge just waiting for the car to burst into geysers of steam (judging by the number of posts) when in fact it could well be a overzealous temp gauge.
However, as my temperature rises, I do notice the car loosing the snappier throttle response it had at 70 when it reaches 90+, the oil pressure reduces and I notice an increase in pinking when on full throttle, so maybe I will still continue with my quest to loose some heat…
At least with a reliable, calibrated temp gauge I could be more confident in making mods and measuring their effect…..
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