Spring rates - too high?
Discussion
I have the older style Gaz Golds on my car, got the refurbed last year and took the opportunity to up the spring rates as it kept bottoming out.
So currently running 450lb front and 375ib rear IIRC.
Car is essentially fast road, and now suffers from being a little too hard/jolty/unsettled over uneven bumps, and (unsure whether connected) the door now rubs against the frame, squeaking continuously over bumpy roads.
Question is do you guys think these spring rates are too hard for our UK roads - or should I be able to run this without problem?
I have the dampers on about 9 clicks from bottom (out of 20ish?) - so prob a little under halfway.
Should I be able to run these and minimise the jolty/unsettled rear by turning the damping down even further - or are 450/375 too hard in peoples opinion..?
I see people talking about running 500/400 (chilli?) on cars that are used on the road - so unsure whether I should get new springs with lower rates, or continue faffing around with damping (or is this futile at these rates?)..?
Car going into garage tomorrow - so trying to get opinions on whether to get them changed while car being serviced...
Thanks,
Dom
So currently running 450lb front and 375ib rear IIRC.
Car is essentially fast road, and now suffers from being a little too hard/jolty/unsettled over uneven bumps, and (unsure whether connected) the door now rubs against the frame, squeaking continuously over bumpy roads.
Question is do you guys think these spring rates are too hard for our UK roads - or should I be able to run this without problem?
I have the dampers on about 9 clicks from bottom (out of 20ish?) - so prob a little under halfway.
Should I be able to run these and minimise the jolty/unsettled rear by turning the damping down even further - or are 450/375 too hard in peoples opinion..?
I see people talking about running 500/400 (chilli?) on cars that are used on the road - so unsure whether I should get new springs with lower rates, or continue faffing around with damping (or is this futile at these rates?)..?
Car going into garage tomorrow - so trying to get opinions on whether to get them changed while car being serviced...
Thanks,
Dom
I run 400/375 springs with the newer Gaz Gold Pros and it feels fine, but i do have mine pretty soft on the road (6 clicks up from the bottom). With the dampers too hard it does feel awful on anything other than new dual carriageway.
So do try softening the dampers off by say 5 clicks this afternoon and see if it improves things.
I don't know the older Gaz Golds, but the newer Pros have a definite point about two clicks wide, around 9 clicks, where they suddenly go from soft to pretty hard. The adjustment is not linear at all.
So do try softening the dampers off by say 5 clicks this afternoon and see if it improves things.
I don't know the older Gaz Golds, but the newer Pros have a definite point about two clicks wide, around 9 clicks, where they suddenly go from soft to pretty hard. The adjustment is not linear at all.
DomV8 I have GGPro's and 400/375
It's far to hard for our roads in my view and softening the dampers may seem to help but very little.
My car shudders over bumps at slow speeds and shakes the thing apart.
If your driving fast there ok but other than that there pants.
Go for less spring rate and it will help but these cars are well known for Skittish attitude anyway!
I owned Jags before this and that's what you call suspension.
I may change mine sometime and keep the harder ones for the track.
They are pretty good around smooth race tracks but that's it.
Regards Alun
It's far to hard for our roads in my view and softening the dampers may seem to help but very little.
My car shudders over bumps at slow speeds and shakes the thing apart.
If your driving fast there ok but other than that there pants.
Go for less spring rate and it will help but these cars are well known for Skittish attitude anyway!
I owned Jags before this and that's what you call suspension.
I may change mine sometime and keep the harder ones for the track.
They are pretty good around smooth race tracks but that's it.
Regards Alun
Hi Dom, yep I'm running 500 front and 400 rear springs, 6 clicks up on the front and 5 on the rear, dampers are Gaz Mono's. I believe the clicks are from hard going toward soft, but I've not played with them since Mat Smith fitted them last October.
The ride is a bit of a bone shaker, although I don't mind this, but since fitting them and having the geo done at the same time she's far more stable through the corners and much less squirmy under hard acceleration... How much of this is down to the damper settings and geo rather than high spring rates is hard to tell... The 500/400 springs came as standard with the Mono's, and as the car is not used as a daily the slow disintegration of my vertebrae is acceptable
I'd probably go softer though if I was planning a long road trip/European type tour in her...
Probably not much help I'm afraid Dom....
Chilli
The ride is a bit of a bone shaker, although I don't mind this, but since fitting them and having the geo done at the same time she's far more stable through the corners and much less squirmy under hard acceleration... How much of this is down to the damper settings and geo rather than high spring rates is hard to tell... The 500/400 springs came as standard with the Mono's, and as the car is not used as a daily the slow disintegration of my vertebrae is acceptable
I'd probably go softer though if I was planning a long road trip/European type tour in her... Probably not much help I'm afraid Dom....
Chilli
I'd say your spot on Chilli. I used mine daily and I got to really dislike the ride.
I had a hoon about the other day and they felt really good, soon as I hit the town, bang crash wollop, I remembered why I disliked them.
For all my, I'm fast bulls
t I'm actually car sympathetic and find it mentally painful to continuously feel the car banging about.
I'm sure my electrical glitches are caused by this also!
Daz those springs wouldn't fit GGP's would they?
I had a hoon about the other day and they felt really good, soon as I hit the town, bang crash wollop, I remembered why I disliked them.
For all my, I'm fast bulls
t I'm actually car sympathetic and find it mentally painful to continuously feel the car banging about.I'm sure my electrical glitches are caused by this also!
Daz those springs wouldn't fit GGP's would they?
Classichims said:
I'd say your spot on Chilli. I used mine daily and I got to really dislike the ride.
I had a hoon about the other day and they felt really good, soon as I hit the town, bang crash wollop, I remembered why I disliked them.
For all my, I'm fast bullst I'm actually car sympathetic and find it mentally painful to continuously feel the car banging about.
I'm sure my electrical glitches are caused by this also!
Daz those springs wouldn't fit GGP's would they?
Yes mate ,there all the same . They were on the rears . Jools has a good selection of quality springs, that`s where i got the 375`s for the front . I put the fronts (325) on the rear then purchased a pair of 375`s from Jools ,mail him ..I had a hoon about the other day and they felt really good, soon as I hit the town, bang crash wollop, I remembered why I disliked them.
For all my, I'm fast bulls
t I'm actually car sympathetic and find it mentally painful to continuously feel the car banging about.I'm sure my electrical glitches are caused by this also!
Daz those springs wouldn't fit GGP's would they?
I can live with my setup but the original factory Nitron setup felt better on the road .
He sells some very nice two way Protech dampers .
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Thursday 29th May 19:16
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Thursday 29th May 19:18
Now I have some experience of our cars I'd go for the best money can buy.
Cheers for that, I'll have a think, so much to Mod and so little spare brown mash right now.
I've still got to get round to removing the rear shocks I've got a damper that doesn't leak but needs to be 3 maybe 4 clicks more than the opposite shock!
There's almost new so I'll contact manufacturer when I've removed them first. Thanks again.
Cheers for that, I'll have a think, so much to Mod and so little spare brown mash right now.
I've still got to get round to removing the rear shocks I've got a damper that doesn't leak but needs to be 3 maybe 4 clicks more than the opposite shock!
There's almost new so I'll contact manufacturer when I've removed them first. Thanks again.
SILICONEKID345HP said:
Yes mate ,there all the same . They were on the rears . Jools has a good selection of quality springs, that`s where i got the 375`s for the front . I put the fronts (325) on the rear then purchased a pair of 375`s from Jools ,mail him ..
I can live with my setup but the original factory Nitron setup felt better on the road .
He sells some very nice two way Protech dampers .
Original Nitron springs felt a bit soft so upgraded to 400 front, 325 rear (Eibach) when had the Nitrons rebuilt (Griff 500). Going to do the ame on the pre-cat (Griff) and get rid of the GGP' which I cant seem to get a setting I'm comfortable with.I can live with my setup but the original factory Nitron setup felt better on the road .
He sells some very nice two way Protech dampers .
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Thursday 29th May 19:16
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Thursday 29th May 19:18
FFG
My sentiments entirely FFG.
I have to say I found them predicable on track other than they were unbalanced at the rears as at the same about of clicks the left was still softer than the right. They seem rock hard on the road yet I was at 18f/18r on a hot track day.
The car was white hot into the turns though and really able to feel the tyre edge. I had the ride height a bit low but it was so balanced, an absolute joy to drive. Airfield so very safe and mega grip even on road tyres?
I was finding the harder I went the more the car dipped into the corners even at those hard settings, heat softening them up!
I have to say I found them predicable on track other than they were unbalanced at the rears as at the same about of clicks the left was still softer than the right. They seem rock hard on the road yet I was at 18f/18r on a hot track day.
The car was white hot into the turns though and really able to feel the tyre edge. I had the ride height a bit low but it was so balanced, an absolute joy to drive. Airfield so very safe and mega grip even on road tyres?
I was finding the harder I went the more the car dipped into the corners even at those hard settings, heat softening them up!
I think Sheel has racing reds, don't know what spring rates but I liked the feel of them.
That's good to know about the monos
It's really punishing the car when there just to hard and tires me out driving it.
Soon as I hit the rocket button even on lanes I'm charging at corners no worries but how often do I do that!
That's good to know about the monos
It's really punishing the car when there just to hard and tires me out driving it.
Soon as I hit the rocket button even on lanes I'm charging at corners no worries but how often do I do that!
FlipFlopGriff said:
I was told to set them from hard not soft as the number of clicks from soft to hard is often different side to side. Certaunly the case on my GGP - 2 more clicks on one side than the other.
FFG
I understand your point but the Monos have only about 13 clicks from hard to soft so 9 down from hard or 4 up from soft is the same imho.FFG
Dom, all this is very interesting, lots of opinions.
But soften the dampers off first before you try changing springs - my money is on your settings being just over the point where they suddenly go very hard. It will take you less than five minutes and might just be all you need. Anti-clockwise on each adjuster knob, by the way.
If not, then get your wallet out for its monthly TVR-related frisking.
But soften the dampers off first before you try changing springs - my money is on your settings being just over the point where they suddenly go very hard. It will take you less than five minutes and might just be all you need. Anti-clockwise on each adjuster knob, by the way.
If not, then get your wallet out for its monthly TVR-related frisking.
I run about half the spring rates that are bandied about here on the Intrax' - 50 kg/cm front and 35 kg/cm rear. This is what Intrax set the car up with on 1K2 Black Titans and although it was a 100% improvement over the tired (106,000 mile) old Bilsteins with the car gliding over potholes instead of crashing into them and a far more positive, 'four square' attitude in corners I felt there was still too much pitch and roll at speed giving a less than settled feel when taking motorway on/off ramps at speed in particular. I had the shocks upgraded to incorporate their ARC (Anti Roll Control) system and now it feels bang on, all the traction, predictability and low speed/bumpy roads composure associated with the low spring rates but now with added front end sharpness and tautness at speed.
My feeling is that for road use, the very high spring rates are a bit of a band aid to overcome the limitations of the suspension and geometry and give the car that modern, crisp, taut feel, with side effects as mentioned in the posts above. With Gaz Golds, Protechs et al I'd settle for a happy medium and accept a bit of compromise on both ends of the operating range.
My feeling is that for road use, the very high spring rates are a bit of a band aid to overcome the limitations of the suspension and geometry and give the car that modern, crisp, taut feel, with side effects as mentioned in the posts above. With Gaz Golds, Protechs et al I'd settle for a happy medium and accept a bit of compromise on both ends of the operating range.
I think there is a bit of confusion here?
Basically you need to mechanically set the dampers from hard, think of setting the valving against the seat so its filly closed then opening it.
However, from a set up point of view you want the springs to do there job so as little damping as possible to just 'control the spring oscillation' hence the setup / dial in from soft.
Maybe the two conflicting idioms have got mixed up (or gone over folks heads) when reading old posts.
Personally I always advocate cycling your adjustment just to keep it free, so something like current setting -> soft -> hard -> soft -> hard -> desired setting, helps getting to know the 'clicks' available as well
If you have to stiffen up the suspension with your dampers, my view is your springs are too weak, stronger springs & less damping will make it less like a brick. Unfortunately I suspect too many have a strange macho belief that stronger springs require more damping????
Basically you need to mechanically set the dampers from hard, think of setting the valving against the seat so its filly closed then opening it.
However, from a set up point of view you want the springs to do there job so as little damping as possible to just 'control the spring oscillation' hence the setup / dial in from soft.
Maybe the two conflicting idioms have got mixed up (or gone over folks heads) when reading old posts.
Personally I always advocate cycling your adjustment just to keep it free, so something like current setting -> soft -> hard -> soft -> hard -> desired setting, helps getting to know the 'clicks' available as well
If you have to stiffen up the suspension with your dampers, my view is your springs are too weak, stronger springs & less damping will make it less like a brick. Unfortunately I suspect too many have a strange macho belief that stronger springs require more damping????
Edited by spend on Friday 30th May 09:22
On a related topic, what would you guys use to lubricate the damper adjuster?
The silly little knobs on my GGPs can be quite a pain to adjust lying on my back at the race circuit, arm at full stretch, 60 year old arthritic fingers going "ouch", and I can feel that they are dirty, gritty and stiff only two months after they were re-built by Gaz.
Would you just give them a blast of WD40, a blast with the air compressor, or is there a better way?
I will be preparing the car at the weekend to take part in the well under-subscribed, and therefore last ever, TVRCC Cadwell Park track day, which is this Monday 2nd June, so can apply whatever is suggested while I have the wheels off checking my brake pads etc.
The silly little knobs on my GGPs can be quite a pain to adjust lying on my back at the race circuit, arm at full stretch, 60 year old arthritic fingers going "ouch", and I can feel that they are dirty, gritty and stiff only two months after they were re-built by Gaz.
Would you just give them a blast of WD40, a blast with the air compressor, or is there a better way?
I will be preparing the car at the weekend to take part in the well under-subscribed, and therefore last ever, TVRCC Cadwell Park track day, which is this Monday 2nd June, so can apply whatever is suggested while I have the wheels off checking my brake pads etc.
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