Fuel Pump replacement - 98 Chim 450
Discussion
Hi all,
anyone know if the Lucas type 4FP replacement Fuel pump is suitable for my 450. shes totally standard, so nothing better than standard required.
Mine has started making a high pitched whine that gets louder and louder the longer the engine runs to the point you can hear it over the engine after 30 minutes!!!
cheers as always guys.. loking forward to your thoughts
Reb.
anyone know if the Lucas type 4FP replacement Fuel pump is suitable for my 450. shes totally standard, so nothing better than standard required.
Mine has started making a high pitched whine that gets louder and louder the longer the engine runs to the point you can hear it over the engine after 30 minutes!!!
cheers as always guys.. loking forward to your thoughts
Reb.
There are a lot of in-line fuel pumps out there that will do the job, you certainly dont need a loony 044.
However in my opinion you are better off paying a the premium for a genuine Bosch item as the quality & reliability is always exceptional.
Just make sure you're not buying a fake as there are lots of snide Bosch fuel pumps out there, check the box label & pump, what you're looking for is "Made in The Czech Republic".
Oddly if you see "Made in Germany" it'll probably be a fake, the vast majority of genuine Bosh pumps are actually made in Czechoslovakia and the fakers didn't understand this.
My pump was screaming on low fuel so I went hunting for a genuine Bosch replacement and managed to find a new Czech built one on Ebay for £95.
It was actually listed for a Porsche 911 & 928 but fits perfectly and is the exact same pump all the TVR specialists sell these days for the Cerbera & T cars, the flow is 25% higher than the one TVR fitted to the Chimaera but obviously the pressure at the rail is governed by the FPR so there's no issue fitting it to a Chim.
The pump works great, its more or less totally silent in operation even on a low fuel tank, and as you'd expect there's no change in AFRs since fitting it.
Bosch had a habit of discontinuing pump part numbers and replacing them with new ones because often each number relates to a specific car, when the manufacturer ceased making the car often (but not always) Bosch deleted the part number.
To add to the confusion many Bosh pumps with different part numbers are completely interchangeable; hose fittings, physical dimensions, flow & pressures all being exactly the same.
So it can all become very confusing, I recommend you start looking for a 0 580 254 957 which flows 128 litres per hour or a 0 580 254 967 & 0 580 254 053 which both flow a perfectly acceptable 175 litres per hour.
All of the above three pumps will fit a Chimaera and work really well, just make sure your flow is 80 - 100 litres per hour or more and the dimensions are as follows:
Inlet: 12MM (3/8")
Outlet: M12 x 1.5
Length: 180mm
Dia: 60mm
Electrical connection -/+: M4/M5
EFI fuel systems circulate as much as 200 litres per hour of fuel at pressures between 2.5 - 3.5 bar, all these Bosch fuel pumps are “Positive Displacement” type pumps, this means that the pump cannot produce pressure unless its acting upon a restriction.
They are not good at pulling fuel but brilliant at pushing it, this is why some manufactures also fitted a lift pump in the bottom of the petrol tank to supply the inlet port of the high pressure pump, this isn't really necessary in a Chimaera and gravity is normally
sufficient.
The only restriction in the system should be the fuel pressure regulator, the regulator controls the system pressure not the pressure ability or flow volume capacity of the fuel pump
However, it's also worth noting the higher flow pumps can draw more amps, so given the original TVR fuel pump wiring is a bit marginal anyway you are well advised to upgrade the earth & live feed if you intend to use a gruntier pump, a relay closer to the pump is also not a bad idea.
Finally I fitted an inline check valve on the positive pressure side of the pump between the pump & fuel filter, this gives zero restriction in the direction of flow but just ensures there's always a good volume of fuel within the pump even after a long layup.
Two things kill fuel pumps... dirt & running the pump dry, to protect the pump from dirt you may choose to fit a proper pre-pump filter, something TVR neglected to do, just make sure it isn't a restriction to the gravity feed to the pump.
To ensure the pump never runs dry, fit that check valve & at all costs avoid running out of fuel, it should also be noted these pumps are cooled by the fuel itself passing through them and your petrol tank is acting as a heat sink.
So if you want a quiet pump.. once again you're well advised to make sure your tank level never gets too low.
However in my opinion you are better off paying a the premium for a genuine Bosch item as the quality & reliability is always exceptional.
Just make sure you're not buying a fake as there are lots of snide Bosch fuel pumps out there, check the box label & pump, what you're looking for is "Made in The Czech Republic".
Oddly if you see "Made in Germany" it'll probably be a fake, the vast majority of genuine Bosh pumps are actually made in Czechoslovakia and the fakers didn't understand this.
My pump was screaming on low fuel so I went hunting for a genuine Bosch replacement and managed to find a new Czech built one on Ebay for £95.
It was actually listed for a Porsche 911 & 928 but fits perfectly and is the exact same pump all the TVR specialists sell these days for the Cerbera & T cars, the flow is 25% higher than the one TVR fitted to the Chimaera but obviously the pressure at the rail is governed by the FPR so there's no issue fitting it to a Chim.
The pump works great, its more or less totally silent in operation even on a low fuel tank, and as you'd expect there's no change in AFRs since fitting it.
Bosch had a habit of discontinuing pump part numbers and replacing them with new ones because often each number relates to a specific car, when the manufacturer ceased making the car often (but not always) Bosch deleted the part number.
To add to the confusion many Bosh pumps with different part numbers are completely interchangeable; hose fittings, physical dimensions, flow & pressures all being exactly the same.
So it can all become very confusing, I recommend you start looking for a 0 580 254 957 which flows 128 litres per hour or a 0 580 254 967 & 0 580 254 053 which both flow a perfectly acceptable 175 litres per hour.
All of the above three pumps will fit a Chimaera and work really well, just make sure your flow is 80 - 100 litres per hour or more and the dimensions are as follows:
Inlet: 12MM (3/8")
Outlet: M12 x 1.5
Length: 180mm
Dia: 60mm
Electrical connection -/+: M4/M5
EFI fuel systems circulate as much as 200 litres per hour of fuel at pressures between 2.5 - 3.5 bar, all these Bosch fuel pumps are “Positive Displacement” type pumps, this means that the pump cannot produce pressure unless its acting upon a restriction.
They are not good at pulling fuel but brilliant at pushing it, this is why some manufactures also fitted a lift pump in the bottom of the petrol tank to supply the inlet port of the high pressure pump, this isn't really necessary in a Chimaera and gravity is normally
sufficient.The only restriction in the system should be the fuel pressure regulator, the regulator controls the system pressure not the pressure ability or flow volume capacity of the fuel pump
However, it's also worth noting the higher flow pumps can draw more amps, so given the original TVR fuel pump wiring is a bit marginal anyway you are well advised to upgrade the earth & live feed if you intend to use a gruntier pump, a relay closer to the pump is also not a bad idea.
Finally I fitted an inline check valve on the positive pressure side of the pump between the pump & fuel filter, this gives zero restriction in the direction of flow but just ensures there's always a good volume of fuel within the pump even after a long layup.
Two things kill fuel pumps... dirt & running the pump dry, to protect the pump from dirt you may choose to fit a proper pre-pump filter, something TVR neglected to do, just make sure it isn't a restriction to the gravity feed to the pump.
To ensure the pump never runs dry, fit that check valve & at all costs avoid running out of fuel, it should also be noted these pumps are cooled by the fuel itself passing through them and your petrol tank is acting as a heat sink.
So if you want a quiet pump.. once again you're well advised to make sure your tank level never gets too low.
Interesting post Dave. How do you go about boosting the live feed. Do you connect an extra live cable directly from the battery to the pump and then earth to the chassis? Where and how do you connect the relay... Just an idiots guide ( this wire goes here, this connects here etc) like you excellent live feed mod to the starter.
Chuffmeister said:
Interesting post Dave. How do you go about boosting the live feed. Do you connect an extra live cable directly from the battery to the pump and then earth to the chassis? Where and how do you connect the relay... Just an idiots guide ( this wire goes here, this connects here etc) like you excellent live feed mod to the starter.
Daz likes to answer that one so I'll leave it to him, he's got a natty little wiring diagram no doubt he'll be posting before the evening is out.Mine was all sorted properly when the boys from Lloyd Specialist Developments fitted the Canems system and their very neat associated wiring.
ChimpOnGas said:
Daz likes to answer that one so I'll leave it to him, he's got a natty little wiring diagram no doubt he'll be posting before the evening is out.
Mine was all sorted properly when the boys from Lloyd Specialist Developments fitted the Canems system and their very neat associated wiring.
Fitted my Relay in the boot(hidden behind the top panel above the petrol tank) . ,re routed the existing pump live in the boot for switch live . and a new nice thick cable from the battery to the relay ..Mine was all sorted properly when the boys from Lloyd Specialist Developments fitted the Canems system and their very neat associated wiring.
I now have a full 12volts supplied by a nice thick cable .
I have a Lucas/Bosche pump fitted to the cerbera good for 450hp ,the 044 pump caused me a`lot of problems .
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Monday 30th June 22:24
Cheers for this Daz.
What size fuse are you using? 30amp?
Also have you got the model number of the relay and the connector? The only four pin connectors I can find on EBay are from Hong Kong, so will take about a month to arrive! A link would be really useful.
Finally, what size cable did you use?
Cheers
Chuffy
What size fuse are you using? 30amp?
Also have you got the model number of the relay and the connector? The only four pin connectors I can find on EBay are from Hong Kong, so will take about a month to arrive! A link would be really useful.
Finally, what size cable did you use?
Cheers
Chuffy
Edited by Chuffmeister on Tuesday 1st July 12:20
View this page https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/70/...
Use the following cable for the relay coil circuit
Use the following cable for the main relay supply that connects to terminal 30 and same cable for terminal 87 to pump
View this page https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/179...
Use this type of relay socket
View this page https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/169...
Use this type of relay
And last but not least, wire in a 20 Amp rated fuse close to where the power supply is picked up
Use the following cable for the relay coil circuit
Use the following cable for the main relay supply that connects to terminal 30 and same cable for terminal 87 to pump
View this page https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/179...
Use this type of relay socket
View this page https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/169...
Use this type of relay
And last but not least, wire in a 20 Amp rated fuse close to where the power supply is picked up
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