Discussion
absolutely p--sed off stop at garage fill up ,car wont start, stupid alarm thing doors lock unlock still wont go ten bl--dy minutes sat there trying to get car to start embarrassing ,finally red faced off I go .how is meta alarm meant to operate ,full pump engages but engine will not turn .I unlock car get in shut door put key in ignition press fob turn key NOTHING what am I doing wrong.all suggestions welcome ,even how to bypass bl--dy thing.
paul ds said:
absolutely p--sed off stop at garage fill up ,car wont start, stupid alarm thing doors lock unlock still wont go ten bl--dy minutes sat there trying to get car to start embarrassing ,finally red faced off I go .how is meta alarm meant to operate ,full pump engages but engine will not turn .I unlock car get in shut door put key in ignition press fob turn key NOTHING what am I doing wrong.all suggestions welcome ,even how to bypass bl--dy thing.
Paul...calm down....calm down! <<scouse accent mode off>>It sounds to me as though you are experiencing the infamous "HOT-START PROBLEM".
If the fuel pump is pressurising system at key ON, then problem looks like power to starter motor. The immobiliser should chop power to fuel pump and starter circuits.
The usual riposte to the situation you describe is to fit a mod-wise hot start kit. This interposes a full size relay in the starter circuit - rather than using the internal (micro ?) relay in the META immobiliser electronic box...which TVR used (in their wisdom). This allows a decent current to reach the starter. I believe the small META relay fails/sticks open, because it's undersized. (Some folks give the dash top a clout to help it close!!)
HOWEVER, having said all the above...the starter on TVRs lives in a hot, dirty environment. The motor has probably not had any maintenance for at least 15 years. TVRs, due to grp body, retain the engine heat to a much greater degree than a steel bodied car. Therefore, as a 1st step, drop the starter off and clean it up/re grease/perhaps replace brushes/check solenoid operation. While you're under the car, check and clean the relevant wiring...check with a multi meter that you're getting a good voltage at the connections.
If the problem persists...then yes, you may have to go the hot start kit route, which by-passes the undersized relay in the META system entirely.
Nick
The alternative is a lot more expensive - have the alarm and immobiliser replaced with a revised Meta system with none of the standard faults by Carl Baker (www.tvruk.tv) for around £550-600. It's a day's work, but you get fail-proof starting, a key mounted plipper for the boot release, and a minute to start the car (as against the standard 15 seconds).
I had mine done when I had already installed the hot start mod, but the alarm was beginning to fail as well - I would come out of the house in the morning to find the driver's side indicator on (on, not flashing) and the battery all but flat. So I needed a full new system. You might get away with just a new immobiliser.
The other possible issue, not mentioned above, is that sometimes the live lead to the starter motor is simply knackered - it goes over the bell housing I believe, and so is constantly exposed to heat.
If your battery is located in the boot and has a longer cable run, it can accentuate this version hot-start problem, as electrical resistance rises with temperature and distance - which can be one of the reasons for the hot start issue in the first place. Old knackered live leads to the starter can simply drain away too muck current when hot.
If you suspect this, next time you go out, take a jack and a good quality long red jump lead with you. If the car fails to start when hot (for heaven's sake, don't park it in a puddle or do this in a monsoon!), leap out, jack up the driver's side and attach one end of the jump lead to the live starter terminal. It's about level with the drive'r door I think. Throw the cable under the car and connect the other end to the battery. Now try to start it. Practice at home first, so that you can do it quickly and so not let the 10-15 minutes cooling period elapse.
I had mine done when I had already installed the hot start mod, but the alarm was beginning to fail as well - I would come out of the house in the morning to find the driver's side indicator on (on, not flashing) and the battery all but flat. So I needed a full new system. You might get away with just a new immobiliser.
The other possible issue, not mentioned above, is that sometimes the live lead to the starter motor is simply knackered - it goes over the bell housing I believe, and so is constantly exposed to heat.
If your battery is located in the boot and has a longer cable run, it can accentuate this version hot-start problem, as electrical resistance rises with temperature and distance - which can be one of the reasons for the hot start issue in the first place. Old knackered live leads to the starter can simply drain away too muck current when hot.
If you suspect this, next time you go out, take a jack and a good quality long red jump lead with you. If the car fails to start when hot (for heaven's sake, don't park it in a puddle or do this in a monsoon!), leap out, jack up the driver's side and attach one end of the jump lead to the live starter terminal. It's about level with the drive'r door I think. Throw the cable under the car and connect the other end to the battery. Now try to start it. Practice at home first, so that you can do it quickly and so not let the 10-15 minutes cooling period elapse.
QBee said:
If you suspect this, next time you go out, take a jack and a good quality long red jump lead with you. If the car fails to start when hot (for heaven's sake, don't park it in a puddle or do this in a monsoon!), leap out, jack up the driver's side and attach one end of the jump lead to the live starter terminal. It's about level with the drive'r door I think. Throw the cable under the car and connect the other end to the battery. Now try to start it. Practice at home first, so that you can do it quickly and so not let the 10-15 minutes cooling period elapse.
Do remember to put the car in neutral and remove the king lead from the coil prior to doing the live feed test with the front of the car on stands!!! 
In fact your first test could be the earth. Simply connect a jump lead to the negative terminal of the battery in the Chim and then the other end to a clean earth on the chassis or engine block. If it starts then, you know you have an earthing issue.
As for the live feed test, you could use the battery from your daily driver rather than mess around in the footwell, but remember the above... The last thing you want is to be under a car on stands when it starts up, especially if it's in gear!
paul ds said:
thanks for all your comments but I have fitted the hot start kit so it is not this causing the issues I am having
Yes it could still be this!The hotstart kit uses the original feed to switch the new "hotstart" relay, the original relay is already weakened/near failing by the time the hot start issue rears its ugly head. The original relay may now be all but dead and therefore not providing the required feed to switch the hotstart relay.
Adding a few 12v LED's along the circuit will show you where the electric stops and help identify where the problem is.
Paul, I've had a similar problem in the past, same symptoms as you and I was convinced it was immobiliser or hot start related. It turned out to be a failing starter motor. Sometimes, the starter would fail to disengage from the flywheel. New starter solved the problem.
I also had a failed fuel pump which I initially blamed on the immobiliser. It seems to be the first thing we suspect, but in my case at least it had been fine.
I also had a failed fuel pump which I initially blamed on the immobiliser. It seems to be the first thing we suspect, but in my case at least it had been fine.
ukdj said:
Yes it could still be this!
The hotstart kit uses the original feed to switch the new "hotstart" relay, the original relay is already weakened/near failing by the time the hot start issue rears its ugly head. The original relay may now be all but dead and therefore not providing the required feed to switch the hotstart relay.
Adding a few 12v LED's along the circuit will show you where the electric stops and help identify where the problem is.
That is what I was told by Carl, when I called him when my immobliser started to pack up, the first thing he said was how long ago did you fit the hot start kit? I hadn't even told him I had it fitted. The hotstart kit uses the original feed to switch the new "hotstart" relay, the original relay is already weakened/near failing by the time the hot start issue rears its ugly head. The original relay may now be all but dead and therefore not providing the required feed to switch the hotstart relay.
Adding a few 12v LED's along the circuit will show you where the electric stops and help identify where the problem is.
It first rears its head as a hot start issue, so you fit the kit, but by that time it is only buying you a bit extra time as the relay in the immobiliser is already on its way out.
I had a replacement starter motor, and a prototype Leven heat shield fitted, then the Hot Start kit as a precaution. Didn't play up for a while after that, then the immobiliser died. Had an updated one fitted by Carl. Never had any problems since, can't see me having a hot start issue again
A new 2kw starter motor fixed mine. See also posts above. Now Spins 5L engine like a top 'Dervish'. Also had a hot start kit and a bypassed Meta, previously done. See also GJR and Supraman above. 2kw starter motor from London and Essex Autoelectrics.
Edited by EGB on Thursday 4th September 09:18
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