Fuel pump priming but no starter motor, advice please!?
Discussion
Gents,
I'm a bit short of time here as I'm supposed to be going away with the car over the weekend. I've just replaced the battery today and with the job done the car is now not starting. The fuel pump primes and I can hear a faint click from the relays when I turn the key. Excuse the lack of research but I'm out this evening and working tomorrow so was hoping someone could point me towards the most likely causes that I can get on to first thing Saturday morning.
Thanks in advance
Tom
I'm a bit short of time here as I'm supposed to be going away with the car over the weekend. I've just replaced the battery today and with the job done the car is now not starting. The fuel pump primes and I can hear a faint click from the relays when I turn the key. Excuse the lack of research but I'm out this evening and working tomorrow so was hoping someone could point me towards the most likely causes that I can get on to first thing Saturday morning.
Thanks in advance
Tom
Have you locked and unlocked the car with the remote fob?
I have to do this on mine if I've disturbed the battery connections to ensure the immobiliser is synchronized.
The other quick thing to try is to switch the 2 silver relays in the loom near the battery. Worked for me to get a friend's 500 going once!
I have to do this on mine if I've disturbed the battery connections to ensure the immobiliser is synchronized.
The other quick thing to try is to switch the 2 silver relays in the loom near the battery. Worked for me to get a friend's 500 going once!
A few thoughts - The alarm can get confused when you fit a new battery. You may not have made good connections when fitting the new battery or its flat.
First reset the alarm - this is easy , just remove the - connection from the battery, wait 5 seconds then put it back on, then immediately press the alarm remote. Car should lock/unlock and alarm is now reset. At the same time you are doing this double check that you have fitted the terminals to the battery nice and tight.
If it still doesnt start try jump leads.
First reset the alarm - this is easy , just remove the - connection from the battery, wait 5 seconds then put it back on, then immediately press the alarm remote. Car should lock/unlock and alarm is now reset. At the same time you are doing this double check that you have fitted the terminals to the battery nice and tight.
If it still doesnt start try jump leads.
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys, I'm hoping it's something like getting the alarm/immobiliser to settle down. But... thinking back, I think I may have just slipped the clamps back on top of the battery terminals and forgotten to tighten them, they still would have been a fairly tight fit though, could it really just be that if it can still run lights, powerful pump etc...?
T
T
TWB86 said:
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys, I'm hoping it's something like getting the alarm/immobiliser to settle down. But... thinking back, I think I may have just slipped the clamps back on top of the battery terminals and forgotten to tighten them, they still would have been a fairly tight fit though, could it really just be that if it can still run lights, powerful pump etc...?
T
It is possible yes.T
Usually you would no doubt push it down firmly and twist it to ensure good contact; and it would work, even without tightening.
But I have seen that just not quite be enough a time or two.
I would be thinking alarm reset too based upon what you have told us so far.
But do tighten those connectors
TWB86 said:
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys, I'm hoping it's something like getting the alarm/immobiliser to settle down. But... thinking back, I think I may have just slipped the clamps back on top of the battery terminals and forgotten to tighten them, they still would have been a fairly tight fit though, could it really just be that if it can still run lights, powerful pump etc...?
T
Yes!T
Hi Tom, I had exactly the same problem with my MG with 2x6 volt batteries behind the seats. Anything but a really solid connection means that everything else works except the starter. (Biggest drain on the battery.) I also found that cleaning the clamps helps, plus plenty of Vaseline. (!) Can you try jumping it from another car to check the starter motor? Also, as said before, try resetting the alarm by disconnect/reconnect.
Really hope you get this sorted before the weekend fella.
Peter
pb450 said:
Yes!
Hi Tom, I had exactly the same problem with my MG with 2x6 volt batteries behind the seats. Anything but a really solid connection means that everything else works except the starter. (Biggest drain on the battery.) I also found that cleaning the clamps helps, plus plenty of Vaseline. (!) Can you try jumping it from another car to check the starter motor? Also, as said before, try resetting the alarm by disconnect/reconnect.
Really hope you get this sorted before the weekend fella.
Peter
Well that's encouraging, with everything working fine before I started hopefully it will just be as simple as going back to those connectors (which in my haste I almost certainly left finger right) and resetting the alarm! It will be my first chance to give the car a proper run out of the city and into the countryside this weekend so I hope it works out!Hi Tom, I had exactly the same problem with my MG with 2x6 volt batteries behind the seats. Anything but a really solid connection means that everything else works except the starter. (Biggest drain on the battery.) I also found that cleaning the clamps helps, plus plenty of Vaseline. (!) Can you try jumping it from another car to check the starter motor? Also, as said before, try resetting the alarm by disconnect/reconnect.
Really hope you get this sorted before the weekend fella.
Peter
PS: to the person who asked, I know it was the battery in the first place because it had deteriorated to 70 something CCA and couldn't turn the engine over!
I'll let you know how it goes, cheers
Does the OP own a multimeter?
If not I can highly recommend purchasing one as it will tell you a lot more than you will ever glean from an internet forum full of well meaning but ultimately guessing contributors.
A few minutes with a multimeter will tell you everything you need to know, which in turn will allow you to fix the problem quicker and more reliably than all the guess work in the world can offer.
Start by properly understanding how the system works (its super simple), then use your test meter to test whats happening or not happening on your car.
Start by not assuming!
For example, just because you have a new battery doesn't mean its not at fault, test it to prove it's good as this is infinitely more reliable than the blind assumption method.
Once you have conclusively confirmed the presence of sufficient volts and amps at source, then and only then should you move onto checking the rest of the system.
Separate in your mind the two separate electrical feeds required to ensure your starter motor turns, then test them separately.
1. High amp starter circuit (big red lead from battery to starter motor)
2. Low amp wire that passes from the sprung position on the ignition switch through the immobiliser to the solenoid that sits on top of the starter motor
You need both working as they should!
If you operate from a starting point of understanding exactly how the system works and test everything in turn in a logical systematic manner using proper test equipment you will diagnose the fault.
It's the difference between phoning NHS direct and going to see your GP in person who will likely refer you to a specialist for further tests if he feels there is a genuine issue requiring further investigation.
A doctor needs to understand the workings of the body first, then lay his hands on the patient and conduct a myriad of tests before he can hope to offer a cure, its exactly the same with your car.
Read this five step guide and use a decent multimeter on your actual car, and it'll be worth more than a thousand responses on this forum.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/starter-...
My advice is.... "use logic and a multimeter, not an internet forum"
Good luck with it
If not I can highly recommend purchasing one as it will tell you a lot more than you will ever glean from an internet forum full of well meaning but ultimately guessing contributors.
A few minutes with a multimeter will tell you everything you need to know, which in turn will allow you to fix the problem quicker and more reliably than all the guess work in the world can offer.
Start by properly understanding how the system works (its super simple), then use your test meter to test whats happening or not happening on your car.
Start by not assuming!
For example, just because you have a new battery doesn't mean its not at fault, test it to prove it's good as this is infinitely more reliable than the blind assumption method.
Once you have conclusively confirmed the presence of sufficient volts and amps at source, then and only then should you move onto checking the rest of the system.
Separate in your mind the two separate electrical feeds required to ensure your starter motor turns, then test them separately.
1. High amp starter circuit (big red lead from battery to starter motor)
2. Low amp wire that passes from the sprung position on the ignition switch through the immobiliser to the solenoid that sits on top of the starter motor
You need both working as they should!
If you operate from a starting point of understanding exactly how the system works and test everything in turn in a logical systematic manner using proper test equipment you will diagnose the fault.
It's the difference between phoning NHS direct and going to see your GP in person who will likely refer you to a specialist for further tests if he feels there is a genuine issue requiring further investigation.
A doctor needs to understand the workings of the body first, then lay his hands on the patient and conduct a myriad of tests before he can hope to offer a cure, its exactly the same with your car.
Read this five step guide and use a decent multimeter on your actual car, and it'll be worth more than a thousand responses on this forum.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/starter-...
My advice is.... "use logic and a multimeter, not an internet forum"
Good luck with it
ChimpOnGas said:
Does the OP own a multimeter?
If not I can highly recommend purchasing one as it will tell you a lot more than you will ever glean from an internet forum full of well meaning but ultimately guessing contributors.
A few minutes with a multimeter will tell you everything you need to know, which in turn will allow you to fix the problem quicker and more reliably than all the guess work in the world can offer.
Start by properly understanding how the system works (its super simple), then use your test meter to test whats happening or not happening on your car.
Start by not assuming!
For example, just because you have a new battery doesn't mean its not at fault, test it to prove it's good as this is infinitely more reliable than the blind assumption method.
Once you have conclusively confirmed the presence of sufficient volts and amps at source, then and only then should you move onto checking the rest of the system.
Separate in your mind the two separate electrical feeds required to ensure your starter motor turns, then test them separately.
1. High amp starter circuit (big red lead from battery to starter motor)
2. Low amp wire that passes from the sprung position on the ignition switch through the immobiliser to the solenoid that sits on top of the starter motor
You need both working as they should!
If you operate from a starting point of understanding exactly how the system works and test everything in turn in a logical systematic manner using proper test equipment you will diagnose the fault.
It's the difference between phoning NHS direct and going to see your GP in person who will likely refer you to a specialist for further tests if he feels there is a genuine issue requiring further investigation.
A doctor needs to understand the workings of the body first, then lay his hands on the patient and conduct a myriad of tests before he can hope to offer a cure, its exactly the same with your car.
Read this five step guide and use a decent multimeter on your actual car, and it'll be worth more than a thousand responses on this forum.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/starter-...
My advice is.... "use logic and a multimeter, not an internet forum"
Good luck with it
Hi Chimp,If not I can highly recommend purchasing one as it will tell you a lot more than you will ever glean from an internet forum full of well meaning but ultimately guessing contributors.
A few minutes with a multimeter will tell you everything you need to know, which in turn will allow you to fix the problem quicker and more reliably than all the guess work in the world can offer.
Start by properly understanding how the system works (its super simple), then use your test meter to test whats happening or not happening on your car.
Start by not assuming!
For example, just because you have a new battery doesn't mean its not at fault, test it to prove it's good as this is infinitely more reliable than the blind assumption method.
Once you have conclusively confirmed the presence of sufficient volts and amps at source, then and only then should you move onto checking the rest of the system.
Separate in your mind the two separate electrical feeds required to ensure your starter motor turns, then test them separately.
1. High amp starter circuit (big red lead from battery to starter motor)
2. Low amp wire that passes from the sprung position on the ignition switch through the immobiliser to the solenoid that sits on top of the starter motor
You need both working as they should!
If you operate from a starting point of understanding exactly how the system works and test everything in turn in a logical systematic manner using proper test equipment you will diagnose the fault.
It's the difference between phoning NHS direct and going to see your GP in person who will likely refer you to a specialist for further tests if he feels there is a genuine issue requiring further investigation.
A doctor needs to understand the workings of the body first, then lay his hands on the patient and conduct a myriad of tests before he can hope to offer a cure, its exactly the same with your car.
Read this five step guide and use a decent multimeter on your actual car, and it'll be worth more than a thousand responses on this forum.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/starter-...
My advice is.... "use logic and a multimeter, not an internet forum"
Good luck with it
Thanks for that and yes, I agree! I do own a multimeter and without the pressure of an impending trip would be going through those steps at my leisure; and I still will be if I need to. However as I described above im very short of time on this occasion, so having a couple of quick checks for likely culprits to do first could well save me some time.
Thanks for the link and the advice.
T
TWB86 said:
Hi Chimp,
Thanks for that and yes, I agree! I do own a multimeter and without the pressure of an impending trip would be going through those steps at my leisure; and I still will be if I need to. However as I described above im very short of time on this occasion, so having a couple of quick checks for likely culprits to do first could well save me some time.
Thanks for the link and the advice.
T
With respect, when it comes to such things checking always works out faster than guessing (unless you happen to be exceptionally lucky).Thanks for that and yes, I agree! I do own a multimeter and without the pressure of an impending trip would be going through those steps at my leisure; and I still will be if I need to. However as I described above im very short of time on this occasion, so having a couple of quick checks for likely culprits to do first could well save me some time.
Thanks for the link and the advice.
T
I understand how tempting it is to try and jump steps when time is tight, the reality is this approach is a false economy.
Take my nine steps to success.
1. Take a deep breath & relax
2. Use your multimeter
3. Go right back to basics
4. Never ever assume
5. Make a list of things to check and in a logical order
6. Be systematic
7. Tick each item off the list as you test it and write down the result
8. Avoid skipping steps at all costs
9. Don't let the pressures of time dictate your thinking
If I was a betting man, I would always put my money on the mechanic that adopts the above methodology over the guy that's hoping to stumble on the short cut answer.
Note.... none of the 9 steps will take long at all, one intensive but methodical 40 minute session following a logical list of tests using your multimeter should be more than sufficient.
With respect, you're already almost a day in asking strangers with no access to the car to guess the problem, ask yourself... "Is this strategy working for me?
In the face of no real solutions coming from the guessing method I'd encourage you to just try my 40 minute logic session instead, then tell me its wasn't the faster approach to locating the true fault & fixing it conclusively.
I wished you luck above which was a bit contradictory of me, forget the luck and start using the inarguable benefits of deploying pure logic
Trust me, it doesn't matter how tight on time you are, it's the only way forward
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 12th December 14:37
In reality, what im going to do in this instance before I get the multimeter out will take 3mins and is only what you'd do to make sure that you were at least starting with a level playing field to diagnose from i.e. sound battery connections and a reset alarm/immobiliser. So we're hardly contradicting each other, it's methodical.
I work in theatre electrics which is a technical industry and when something stops working there are several components to the system that could be at fault, the textbook approach is to work your way up the power chain from unit to supply. However when your experience tells you that the circumstances and symptoms suggest such and such you go there first, im just drawing on the experience of others in this case.
Aaaanyway, I appreciate the advice and the time taken to give it and I don't disagree with you in principle! I'll report back on how it goes. Enjoy your weekend folks.
I work in theatre electrics which is a technical industry and when something stops working there are several components to the system that could be at fault, the textbook approach is to work your way up the power chain from unit to supply. However when your experience tells you that the circumstances and symptoms suggest such and such you go there first, im just drawing on the experience of others in this case.
ChimpOnGas said:
With respect, you're already almost a day in asking strangers with no access to the car to guess the problem, ask yourself... "Is this strategy working for me?
Well, yes really. It's take a total of about 10mins of my time while i cant go anywhere near the car to type questions and read responses and its jogged my memory on something I've likely forgotten do, so i'd say its time well spent.Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 12th December 14:37
Aaaanyway, I appreciate the advice and the time taken to give it and I don't disagree with you in principle!
I'll report back on how it goes. Enjoy your weekend folks.
ChimpOnGas said:
Does the OP own a multimeter?
If not I can highly recommend purchasing one as it will tell you a lot more than you will ever glean from an internet forum full of well meaning but ultimately guessing contributors.
A few minutes with a multimeter will tell you everything you need to know, which in turn will allow you to fix the problem quicker and more reliably than all the guess work in the world can offer.
Start by properly understanding how the system works (its super simple), then use your test meter to test whats happening or not happening on your car.
Start by not assuming!
For example, just because you have a new battery doesn't mean its not at fault, test it to prove it's good as this is infinitely more reliable than the blind assumption method.
Once you have conclusively confirmed the presence of sufficient volts and amps at source, then and only then should you move onto checking the rest of the system.
Separate in your mind the two separate electrical feeds required to ensure your starter motor turns, then test them separately.
1. High amp starter circuit (big red lead from battery to starter motor)
2. Low amp wire that passes from the sprung position on the ignition switch through the immobiliser to the solenoid that sits on top of the starter motor
You need both working as they should!
If you operate from a starting point of understanding exactly how the system works and test everything in turn in a logical systematic manner using proper test equipment you will diagnose the fault.
It's the difference between phoning NHS direct and going to see your GP in person who will likely refer you to a specialist for further tests if he feels there is a genuine issue requiring further investigation.
A doctor needs to understand the workings of the body first, then lay his hands on the patient and conduct a myriad of tests before he can hope to offer a cure, its exactly the same with your car.
Read this five step guide and use a decent multimeter on your actual car, and it'll be worth more than a thousand responses on this forum.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/starter-...
My advice is.... "use logic and a multimeter, not an internet forum"
Good luck with it
^^ What he said!If not I can highly recommend purchasing one as it will tell you a lot more than you will ever glean from an internet forum full of well meaning but ultimately guessing contributors.
A few minutes with a multimeter will tell you everything you need to know, which in turn will allow you to fix the problem quicker and more reliably than all the guess work in the world can offer.
Start by properly understanding how the system works (its super simple), then use your test meter to test whats happening or not happening on your car.
Start by not assuming!
For example, just because you have a new battery doesn't mean its not at fault, test it to prove it's good as this is infinitely more reliable than the blind assumption method.
Once you have conclusively confirmed the presence of sufficient volts and amps at source, then and only then should you move onto checking the rest of the system.
Separate in your mind the two separate electrical feeds required to ensure your starter motor turns, then test them separately.
1. High amp starter circuit (big red lead from battery to starter motor)
2. Low amp wire that passes from the sprung position on the ignition switch through the immobiliser to the solenoid that sits on top of the starter motor
You need both working as they should!
If you operate from a starting point of understanding exactly how the system works and test everything in turn in a logical systematic manner using proper test equipment you will diagnose the fault.
It's the difference between phoning NHS direct and going to see your GP in person who will likely refer you to a specialist for further tests if he feels there is a genuine issue requiring further investigation.
A doctor needs to understand the workings of the body first, then lay his hands on the patient and conduct a myriad of tests before he can hope to offer a cure, its exactly the same with your car.
Read this five step guide and use a decent multimeter on your actual car, and it'll be worth more than a thousand responses on this forum.
http://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/starter-...
My advice is.... "use logic and a multimeter, not an internet forum"
Good luck with it
One thing to try which is quite neat and helpful.
Put the head lights on main beam and then try to start the car.
If the lights dim a lot then the starter is draining the battery and the pd across the lights has of course dropped.
This would indicate that the starter solenoid is firing but there is insufficient pd to crank the engine.
If the lights do not dim then there is no additional current draw, and hence the starter solenoid is not firing.
It's a quick test and will point you somewhere in the right direction BUT it won't tell you why!
Other tests:
very long jump lead from battery to starter (you'll need to get under the car for this one) (is the main lead fried?)
very long cable from starter solenoid to battery (another under car test)
Arsing about with a multimeter on a warm summer night is not too bad, not nice in -5C!
Good luck!
Well, there was a happy ending, if a little embarrassing! When i got back into the car i saw it straight away, a wire had come off the back of one the relays! (groan!) Thats what happens when you're rushing working in the dark. It wasnt one of the relays i could hear/feel clicking with the fuel pump and when the key was turned but a third one, so some more learning to do there!
Anyway, the weekend went ahead as planned and i had a great time getting the car out in to the countryside for its first proper trip which even managed to include a bit of roof off running back into the city in the sun this afternoon.
Thanks to everyone who offered help and advice, here are a couple of pics of the car on its return...
Cheers
Anyway, the weekend went ahead as planned and i had a great time getting the car out in to the countryside for its first proper trip which even managed to include a bit of roof off running back into the city in the sun this afternoon.
Thanks to everyone who offered help and advice, here are a couple of pics of the car on its return...
Cheers
Reminds me of the time long long ago, (actually in the 1970's) when I did a service on the MGB (might have been a Midget) and being young and full of enthusiasm to do everything right, I changed points and condenser and rotor arm. (For the younger audience these were all part of a cars ignition system, now superseded by an ECU costing many more times ).
Could I get the b'st'd to start afterwards?
Stripped everything over and over again, nothing. Had to ring the then GF to say wasn't out to "play" that night.
Well there was a little insulating washer below the points post or should have been, and no matter how many times I put the points back together, I put them back in the wrong order.....
Could I get the b'st'd to start afterwards?
Stripped everything over and over again, nothing. Had to ring the then GF to say wasn't out to "play" that night.
Well there was a little insulating washer below the points post or should have been, and no matter how many times I put the points back together, I put them back in the wrong order.....
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