TorqueV8's TorqueFlow

[JimTC]

Hi,

Anyone fitted TorqueV8's TorqueFlow system to their Chimaera?

Keen to know whether it helps with the 'shunting' issue.

Many thanks.

http://www.torquev8.com/products.html

Edited by JimTC on Friday 30th January 11:04

[db484bhpv8]

Yes it does what it says on the tin.
Eann will tune out the shunting and the AFR will be spot on so more mpg to boot.
Combined with inlet improvements you should see a significant boost in bhp.

[macdeb]

^^^^

[Mellow Yellow]

My latest Griff has TF500 fitted, no shunting whatsoever and I really notice the increase in mpg. Downside for me is I'm a long way away if I have a problem with it, you also don't get the expected increase in volume when you drop a cog (or even two), cherry bombs will probably address the latter

[SILICONEKID345HP]

Is he still doing the Torque flow ?

[V8 GRF]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Is he still doing the Torque flow ?

Yes as well as his turbo installation. Just check his website

[blitzracing]

Mellow Yellow said:

My latest Griff has TF500 fitted, no shunting whatsoever and I really notice the increase in mpg. Downside for me is I'm a long way away if I have a problem with it, you also don't get the expected increase in volume when you drop a cog (or even two), cherry bombs will probably address the latter

Sorry chaps- we need to look at some straight facts here as to how the ECU and AFM work. Firstly Bosch designed to ECU to keep the mixture clamped to maintain an AFR or 14.7:1, (catalysts set up) and an engine in a half decent (unaltered) state should run like this without issues. However if the car is badly set up in the first place or say has fouled injectors, that causes the AFR to be a long way out, you could frig about with the AFM output to alter the fuel load points used by the ECU, and reduce the amount of correction the ECU has to make to keep the mixture in line, and on the whole, less correction means less shunting. If you want to have zero correction, you need to run the non catalyst fuel map (with the correct chip) and then you can tweak the low speed mixture with the pot on the side of the AFM to suit the engine for best drive-ability , not to suit your catalysts or the environment. The point being here is no manufacturer in their right mind would loose MPG over something as simple as an AFM design or fuel map- so if you are seeing big improvements in MPG its because the car was running out of spec' in the first place, and the mixture control has been improved by altering the AFM output to mask the change in engine spec' since it left the factory.

The next point is increased power- now a bigger AFM tube is less restrictive, plus a bigger throttle plate is allow more air in for any given throttle movement, so yes more air is a good thing- but that then raises the issue of how to get more fuel in to go with more air or you will horribly lean. In the past a new chip was fitted that was simply a chip from a larger engine, (or you can boost the fuel pressure) but that throws out the whole fuel mapping at lower RPM, so you now have to re adjust the AFM output to pull it back to suitable load points in the fuel map. Think of it this way- normally you map a car by altering the fuel map in the chip, not altering the output of your sensors to try and get the map you have to work- not thats stopped people altering sensor outputs when the ECU is difficult to map. However with the work done on the 14CUX in the last couple of years its now perfectly possible to remap the ECU with Tunerpro and a Moats Ostridge Eprom emulator for not huge amounts of money, you just need a rolling road / road sessions and a gas analyser. It is possible to use the lambda outputs to measure the correct mixture if road testing if you dont have a gas analyser to hand. I dont know if a mapping service is now being offered by Torqueflow, but its by far the best way of doing things.

In general AFM terms, there are units by both Bosch and the Lucas 20AM that are much larger than the Lucas 5AM, that are relatively straight forward to fit, but then require a remap- that I think is currently around £250 (plus an AFM) from kits and classics. Putting a larger throttle plate in will simply give more power for given throttle movement, but Id suspect the peak power wont change much due to other restrictions in the inlet tract limiting airflow.Putting a bigger AFM on a 5 ltr engine can liberate 10-15 BHP- but no change on a 3.9 as this does not outflow the standard AFM.

Edited by blitzracing on Friday 30th January 17:16

[SILICONEKID345HP]

blitzracing said:

Sorry chaps- we need to look at some straight facts here as to how the ECU and AFM work. Firstly Bosch designed to ECU to keep the mixture clamped to maintain an AFR or 14.7:1, (catalysts set up) and an engine in a half decent (unaltered) state should run like this without issues. However if the car is badly set up in the first place or say has fouled injectors, that causes the AFR to be a long way out, you could frig about with the AFM output to alter the fuel load points used by the ECU, and reduce the amount of correction the ECU has to make to keep the mixture in line, and on the whole, less correction means less shunting. If you want to have zero correction, you need to run the non catalyst fuel map (with the correct chip) and then you can tweak the low speed mixture with the pot on the side of the AFM to suit the engine for best drive-ability , not to suit your catalysts or the environment. The point being here is no manufacturer in their right mind would loose MPG over something as simple as an AFM design or fuel map- so if you are seeing big improvements in MPG its because the car was running out of spec' in the first place, and the mixture control has been improved by altering the AFM output to mask the change in engine spec' since it left the factory.

The next point is increased power- now a bigger AFM tube is less restrictive, plus a bigger throttle plate is allow more air in for any given throttle movement, so yes more air is a good thing- but that then raises the issue of how to get more fuel in to go with more air or you will horribly lean. In the past a new chip was fitted that was simply a chip from a larger engine, (or you can boost the fuel pressure) but that throws out the whole fuel mapping at lower RPM, so you now have to re adjust the AFM output to pull it back to suitable load points in the fuel map. Think of it this way- normally you map a car by altering the fuel map in the chip, not altering the output of your sensors to try and get the map you have to work- not thats stopped people altering sensor outputs when the ECU is difficult to map. However with the work done on the 14CUX in the last couple of years its now perfectly possible to remap the ECU with Tunerpro and a Moats Ostridge Eprom emulator for not huge amounts of money, you just need a rolling road / road sessions and a gas analyser. It is possible to use the lambda outputs to measure the correct mixture if road testing if you dont have a gas analyser to hand. I dont know if a mapping service is now being offered by Torqueflow, but its by far the best way of doing things.

In general AFM terms, there are units by both Bosch and the Lucas 20AM that are much larger than the Lucas 5AM, that are relatively straight forward to fit, but then require a remap- that I think is currently around £250 (plus an AFM) from kits and classics. Putting a larger throttle plate in will simply give more power for given throttle movement, but Id suspect the peak power wont change much due to other restrictions in the inlet tract limiting airflow.

Putting a bigger AFM on a 5 ltr engine can liberate 10-15 BHP- but not change on a 3.9 as this does not outflow the standard AFM

Edited by blitzracing on Friday 30th January 17:04

Edited by blitzracing on Friday 30th January 17:09

To make it short and sweet things have moved on .

[blitzracing]

The Basic sensor inputs and mapping process have not on the 14CUX , please enlighten me with what's new. I the last torqueflow I saw was at the South West TVR day down at Neil Garner about 18 months ago- the build quality has improved vastly over that of the originals, but as they say you can not change the laws of physics.

[JimTC]

Thanks for all the very useful comments.
Jim