Steering problem?

[sparky11]

Hi guys,

I've had this problem for about a week now - it was sort of intermittent but now appears to have moved in for good!

Basically, the steering won't 'return' once you've turned the wheel, it actually needs to be conciously brought back to the straight ahead position. Now, obviuously, I don't drive everywhere letting the wheel slide through my hands, but it obviously ain't right! It does appear to have got much heavier as well - though there is no groaning or other noises i'd associate with knackered steering.

Thing is, it doesn't use a lot of PAS fluid (I do a v.small top up about once a month) but when I checked the fluid on Saturday it did appear 'milky' - can water get in and foul the fluid? Is it easy enough to drain and change?

Any other ideas?

Oh, and I cleaned the stepper motor and that hasn't fixed it......

Thanks in advance,

Mark

[shpub]

Knackered steering column UJs or steering geometery problems can cause a lack of self centering.

Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk

[sparky11]

Cheers Steve,

That sounds reasonable, but would they go that quickly? Its only happened in the past week and was totally fine before that - and I havent hit anything!!

Mark

[fatboychim]

It can happen quickly, especially if you've been out in the wet recently and dirt is caked in the u/j's. It can be accompanied by a notchy feel to the steering.

Cleaning both U/J's with light spray oil (i use clipper oil) then baffing them full of grease sorted mine out. I do them regularly and they are still fine a year later.There is also a grease nipple on the underside of the steering rack.

[M@H]

The thing that makes a car return to center is the Toe in angle, if it's set neutral then the car really won't bother trying much. Has anyone "adjusted" your tracking..?

Cheers,
Matt.

[sparky11]

Cheers guys, given me a few things to check.

Should probably also mention that it seems fine at speed, it only seems to materialise at low speed i.e roundabouts and junctions.

Its my daily driver so it has been out in the wet a lot recently.

No, it hasn't been 'adjusted'!! I've been VERY careful!!!

Mark

[peter miller]

Hi mark,
A seized suspension or track rod ball joint could cause this problem.I had this once,and it showed the same symptoms as you describe.(eg, you can continue driving around a bend with your hands off the steering wheel). Also with Power steering, a stiff joint could be very bad without you noticing it, due to the power assistance.
It may be worth jacking the car to take the weight off the wheels to see if you can move the steering freely by hand,and if not, use a process of elimination to pinpoint the problem.
But whatever you do, check it out soon, as in my case the bottom ball joint actually popped apart while I was driving, causing the wheel to separate itself from the suspension. Luckily I was only travelling at walking pace at the time.

best of luck

Peter

>> Edited by peter miller on Tuesday 18th January 00:02

[taylormj4]

Amazing,
I was just going to post this as a problem with my 450.
Only difference is I have just replaced the seal on the input shaft of my steering rack as it was leaking.

Everything was fine after repairs. Then started to get some slightly stiff spots and now its getting really heavy throughout.

I did mark all of the shafts and UJs to make sure they all went back correctly. I cleaned them all up with WD40 and then covered in grease.

Do I need to lubricate the joints before greasing then?
I thought they must be machine joints that didn't need external greasing - perhaps I've chased it all out with the WD40? Oh pants!

Matt

[M@H]

taylormj4 said:

- perhaps I've chased it all out with the WD40? Oh pants! Matt

Mmmmm.... sounds likely.. its an excellent de-greaser afterall. Bad luck.

[sparky11]

OK, I perused the Bible last night and, after a cursory look this morning it would indeed appear that the steering U/J's are dry as a nuns chuff, as it were.

I gave them a quick soak in WD-40 and, on my short drive to work, there does appear to be a slight improvement.

Question I have now is what sort of grease can I now pack them with and where can I get it from?

Or.... as they are so dry already is it just better to replace?

Will still check suspension at weekend but this looks good to be going on with.

Thanks so far,

Mark

[M@H]

I'd use some spray grease to get it inside them and flush out the WD40, then pack around them with LM grease or similar, then get some cheap steering rack gaitors and some cable ties and make some gaiter covers for the joints themselves. That should sort them out for years

[taylormj4]

Hi,
I've just made a worrying discovery....

I lubricated the UJs with some spray 3-in-1 oil containing PTFE to chase out the WD40 - seems OK.

However moving the steering around with the power steering off, there is a horrible creaking noise coming from the steering column. Sounds like a creaking door hinge! :confuse:
I stripped off all of the cowling and the column switches but can't tell whether it's coming from the knuckle joint or the top column bearing or somewhere else. Could I have damaged the steering column whilst hammering the UJs off (they were a bit seized onto the intermediate shaft - although I was hammering away from the rack so as not to collapse it).

Has anyone had any experience with this?
A new steering column is over 400 pounds!
Help! In saving myself the cost of getting a steering rack seal changed, have I cost myself a new column?

[taylormj4]

Sparky,
Sorry, meant to add to the above...I hope you don't mind me coming in on your topic with a few questions?

Cheers,
Matt

[sparky11]

Matt,

Nah, mate, its all good stuff.

Coming from a Supra that never needed anything more than tyres and filters its quite nice to get me hands dirty again!

I kinda like stuff that I can see working and see how to fix. A lot better than this modern sealed crap.

I shall probably change my mind when stuck at the side of the road in a downpour, though....

Mark

[Paul (93 Chim)]

Yep, have got the same problem, mine was fine until I left it in an airport carpark for 2 weeks. When I was driving home I found the steering doing exactly the same. I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know how I get on. I have checked out the balljoints, suspension etc. today and they are all ok.

[Martin_S]

M@H said:

The thing that makes a car return to center is the Toe in angle, if it's set neutral then the car really won't bother trying much. Has anyone "adjusted" your tracking..? Cheers, Matt.

No it doesn't. Toe-in takes up any 'slack' in the suspension components and has the effect of stabilizing the steering feel a little, but it has no significant effect on self centring.

Self-centring is down to caster angle, steering axis offset and (a small amount) due to the self-aligning torque generated by the tyres themselves.

The steering axis offset cannot be at fault - even an impact with a kerb could't change it. Caster angle could be reduced if the suspension took a knock, but it is unlikely. Tire pressures can effect the self-aligning torque of the tyres, but you check your tyre pressures every week, don't you?

Best bet, as others have said, is that something (steering UJ?) is seized.

[chimtvr]

im more interested in the groaning noise and milky looking fluid sounds to me like the pump and the milky look is usually air mixed in with the fluid due to the failing pump check the fluid again after an hour or so see if the milkyness has gone then try bleeding the rack by turning lock to lock listen carefully to the groaning see if its coming from the pump or rack

[shpub]

taylormj4 said:

Hi, However moving the steering around with the power steering off, there is a horrible creaking noise coming from the steering column. Sounds like a creaking door hinge! :confuse:

Does it make the same noise with the PAS on? Without the pump running trying to move the steering makes puts an incredible strain on the steering components including the column.

[taylormj4]

shpub said:

Does it make the same noise with the PAS on? Without the pump running trying to move the steering makes puts an incredible strain on the steering components including the column.

Yes , but not anywhere near as badly.
The noise is generated by gently rotating the steering wheel backward and forward around certain spots.

Matt

[M@H]

Martin_S said:

M@H said: The thing that makes a car return to center is the Toe in angle, if it's set neutral then the car really won't bother trying much. Has anyone "adjusted" your tracking..? Cheers, Matt. No it doesn't. Toe-in takes up any 'slack' in the suspension components and has the effect of stabilizing the steering feel a little, but it has no significant effect on self centring.

fair enough I know what you are saying, however I took my last S Series from not centering at all, to centering very nicely by dropping the ride height. This had the effect of taking the toe in from neutral (well about .5 deg toe out) to negative (all measured before and after) but couldn't have affected the castor as no shimming was played with..

Cheers,
Matt.