SP12's, wheel spacers and wheels studs

[PJ57]

Hey all.
Having run my chim for a several months on the SP12's, I thought I'd try some wheel spacers as the fronts seemed to be inset further than the rears in the arches.
Also the car suffered from tramlining problems through the steering (even after full polly bush and suspension set up).
I've fitted 5mm spacers, which has dramatically improved the look for the front end, but even better, the car handles far better and the tramlining issue has pretty much disappeared. Great result as the tramlining was always blamed on the lower profile front tyres, and assumed to be part and parcel of running bigger wheels.

The question is whether I need to run longer wheel studs on the 5mm spacers?
If so, the only ones I can find are M12x1.5 Spline 13.1mm with a length of 63mm, as below

http://www.superforma.co.uk/wheel-spacers/accessor...

Would these be too long vs the stock 47mm with only 5mm spacers? as was hoping to go 52mm, but cant find them with 13.1 spline sizes.

Any ideas where to get them from if I actually need to go with longer studs?

Thanks

Edited by PJ57 on Wednesday 30th December 12:42

[SILICONEKID345HP]

Sell the sp12`s and fit standard wheels . That is the answer..

[simonwedge]

I used these extended ones on my Griff http://www.burtonpower.com/catalogsearch/result/?q... . You can always cut them down if they're too long. Be warned though, it's easy enough to knock the old ones out but it's a barsteward job to get the new ones into the hub. I ended up taking the front uprights off the car so could get them in a vice and drift the new studs in - you'll need to get the geo reset afterwards though.

Simon

[AceOfHearts]

5mm is not that much. How many turns do the wheel nuts still get on the studs?

[QBee]

I have been running my Ford fit 17 inch wheels (ET38) on standard studs with 5mm spacers for years. You only need longer studs if you have 7mm or wider spacers.

Doubting Thomas, a good friend of mine, questioned my judgement at a track day last year, so we took one nut off, and then put it back on, counting the turns.
IIRC it was 12 turns with 5mm spacers. 6 turns or more is all you need to be safe.

But always torque them up properly, however many turns of thread you have. Having put a wheel back on my trailer last summer with an impact gun, I was distracted and forgot to torque the nuts up the last little bit with the wheel wrench. 100 miles later the wheel came clean off on the A429 in the Cotswolds................with my TVR on the trailer. I won't be forgetting again.

[ianwayne]

Since even the standard wheels are of different size, width and offsets front to rear, there seem to be many many differing opinions and results.

I fitted 17" wheels all round to my Chimaera in the summer for a few months but changed my mind in the end. I used the standard wheel nuts on wheels with ET38 offset without a problem.

I had used 5mm spacers on the front wheels of the 17" wheels to stop fouling the lower arms.

After refitting the Estoril wheels, I retained the 5mm spacers & used them on the rear as an experiment. I think the handling is slightly better (?) although I have no evidence but 'feel' to support this.

[sapper]

PJ57 said:

Hey all.
Having run my chim for a several months on the SP12's, I thought I'd try some wheel spacers as the fronts seemed to be inset further than the rears in the arches.
Also the car suffered from tramlining problems through the steering (even after full polly bush and suspension set up).
I've fitted 5mm spacers, which has dramatically improved the look for the front end, but even better, the car handles far better and the tramlining issue has pretty much disappeared. Great result as the tramlining was always blamed on the lower profile front tyres, and assumed to be part and parcel of running bigger wheels.

The question is whether I need to run longer wheel studs on the 5mm spacers?
If so, the only ones I can find are M12x1.5 Spline 13.1mm with a length of 63mm, as below

http://www.superforma.co.uk/wheel-spacers/accessor...

Would these be too long vs the stock 47mm with only 5mm spacers? as was hoping to go 52mm, but cant find them with 13.1 spline sizes.

Any ideas where to get them from if I actually need to go with longer studs?

Thanks

Edited by PJ57 on Wednesday 30th December 12:42

What tyres are you using?
I've just ordered as set of SP12s, and more looking atAD08Rs as I've been advised that some tyres suffer with tram lining

[QBee]

sapper said:

What tyres are you using?
I've just ordered as set of SP12s, and more looking atAD08Rs as I've been advised that some tyres suffer with tram lining

Matt Poxon (Mpoxon) is on AD08Rs and loves them as far as I am aware. Email him, he's a really friendly PHer, his only error was buying a Grief, not a Chimaera..
I had a look at AD08Rs. They have a B rating for wet grip - way better than most tyres, yet make good track tyre.

If you have ordered from ACT, they will be 7.5 inch fronts and 8 inch rears, I think. I will check tomorrow, but think mine are.
I have had 215/45 17 on the front and 235/40 18 on the rear. I will post up a link to a suitable width chart when I am back at my computer - this is my iPad.

[PJ57]

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I checked the wheel nuts, fun in the dark
The rears without any spacers are 10 full turns, but the front's with the spacers are 7 full rotations. Is it worth going a bit longer on the studs as it's pretty close to 6?

The tyres came on the wheels when I bought them second hand, Dunlop's on the front. I will double check the sizes and which Dunlop tyre they are tomorrow when it's lighter.

[PJ57]

Nah. I did go to stock wheels, and the handling was good, but running almost stock ride height, they look a little lost in the arches. Would go stock id I was lowering the car though.
If I could find larger (17-18in) 5 spoke wheels with a similar look to stock, I would defiantly consider a change.

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Sell the sp12`s and fit standard wheels . That is the answer..

[SILICONEKID345HP]

PJ57 said:

Anyone after some 16" and .7" tyres ?all have 8mm tread.

[sapper]

QBee said:

Matt Poxon (Mpoxon) is on AD08Rs and loves them as far as I am aware. Email him, he's a really friendly PHer, his only error was buying a Grief, not a Chimaera..
I had a look at AD08Rs. They have a B rating for wet grip - way better than most tyres, yet make good track tyre.

If you have ordered from ACT, they will be 7.5 inch fronts and 8 inch rears, I think. I will check tomorrow, but think mine are.
I have had 215/45 17 on the front and 235/40 18 on the rear. I will post up a link to a suitable width chart when I am back at my computer - this is my iPad.

Cheers mate

[swanny71]

PJ57 said:

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I checked the wheel nuts, fun in the dark
The rears without any spacers are 10 full turns, but the front's with the spacers are 7 full rotations. Is it worth going a bit longer on the studs as it's pretty close to 6?

The tyres came on the wheels when I bought them second hand, Dunlop's on the front. I will double check the sizes and which Dunlop tyre they are tomorrow when it's lighter.

Never had tramlining issues when they were on mine Phil, fronts are (or were) 215/40/17 Dunlop SP Sport Max.

I've got Conti Sport Contact 3's in the same size on my new wheels and they do feel nicer than the Dunlop's did, might be worth trying some of those?

[QBee]

For road use, many Chimaera drivers seem to like Uniroyal Rainsport 3s.
I have them on my Saab and they are wonderful.
And A rated for wet grip.

[QBee]

PJ57 said:

Thanks for all the replies guys.
I checked the wheel nuts, fun in the dark
The rears without any spacers are 10 full turns, but the front's with the spacers are 7 full rotations. Is it worth going a bit longer on the studs as it's pretty close to 6?

The tyres came on the wheels when I bought them second hand, Dunlop's on the front. I will double check the sizes and which Dunlop tyre they are tomorrow when it's lighter.

They are easy enough to change. Sounds like some you need studs about 5-8mm longer ideally.
I run my SP12s (ET 25 front, 33 rear) without spacers. I run my Team Dynamics Monza Rs (ET38) with 5mm spacers, all without stud length issues. Perhaps my studs are longer? No idea why they shoud be.

[Pupp]

If the SP12s are the correct ones for the car (and not TD generics), I'd be a little wary of messing about with spacers as considerable efforts were taken by the originators to optimise the offsets for the geometry. There was quite a lot of info on here about the lengths gone to and the resulting ETs that were settled on but, annoyingly, I cannot turn it up now.

I'd suspect something else as the cause of excessive tramlining before the wheel spacing TBH, my experience was that the wheels with new T1Rs were a real leap forward in terms of attaining stable and predictable steering (after awful performance on stock wheels).

[PJ57]

swanny71 said:

Never had tramlining issues when they were on mine Phil, fronts are (or were) 215/40/17 Dunlop SP Sport Max.

I've got Conti Sport Contact 3's in the same size on my new wheels and they do feel nicer than the Dunlop's did, might be worth trying some of those?

Thanks matey, hope all good with you.
The Dunlop SP's are still one the wheels, along with the Conti's on the rear.
Will look to change the fronts, as will be an easy win. TBH, the conti's seem to give better grip, so would be a good shout.

Strangely the wheels seem to sit further in the arches at the front compared to the stock ones, but I'll have a look at re-setting the suspension if they worked fine with you.
All the suspensions been changed, including dampers and poly-bushing.
I think Woody set the front at 1 degrees negative on the front, which may be exaggerating the things perhaps?

[PJ57]

Cheers folks. Will look at changing the tyres and re-set the camber, hopefully that will help