Am I being thick or...? Camshaft change issues
Discussion
Guys, calling-in collective knowledge.
I have just refitted the new camshaft into the engine block and I have a problem with the assembly.
- First picture will show you the new camshaft installed:
- Second picture shows the holding plate installed with the two screws:
- Third picture shows the camshaft wheel installed and pushed against the stop:
You will notice that the two bolts go through the vernier holes and prevent any rotation.
- Fourth picture shows the complete assembly with spacer, timing gear, washer and bolt torqued to 50Nm:
Same situation. Rotation is not possible because of the bolts passing through the vernier.
I have tried the same assembly with the old camshaft, outside of the block and have the same result.
Obviously, there must be a part missing somewhere but can't see it in the workshop manual or in my batch of parts taken from the engine.
What exactly am I missing here?
Thanks
Philippe
I have just refitted the new camshaft into the engine block and I have a problem with the assembly.
- First picture will show you the new camshaft installed:
- Second picture shows the holding plate installed with the two screws:
- Third picture shows the camshaft wheel installed and pushed against the stop:
You will notice that the two bolts go through the vernier holes and prevent any rotation.
- Fourth picture shows the complete assembly with spacer, timing gear, washer and bolt torqued to 50Nm:
Same situation. Rotation is not possible because of the bolts passing through the vernier.
I have tried the same assembly with the old camshaft, outside of the block and have the same result.
Obviously, there must be a part missing somewhere but can't see it in the workshop manual or in my batch of parts taken from the engine.
What exactly am I missing here?
Thanks
Philippe
QBee said:
I know absolutely nothing, but Shirley the vernier wheel must be upside down?
Maybe you know nothing but you nailed it.I did dismantle the vernier wheel for cleaning and re-assembled it the wrong way around.
The central part with the woodruf key must be inserted with the sleeve pointing towards the block in order to act as the spacer I am missing.
It is now corrected, torqued to spec and I am now at 116° ATDC first measurement.
Let's continue....
I didnt think you could fit a vernier with a serpentine cam as it does exactly the problem you've got, fouls on the cam retainer.
For that reason I use a sprocket from John eales that has multiple keyways so you can set the timing that way. also has the advantage nothing can come loose.
One engine builder i spoke to said just leave the cam retainer out, but that buggers the sprokets really quickly as the cam does move
For that reason I use a sprocket from John eales that has multiple keyways so you can set the timing that way. also has the advantage nothing can come loose.
One engine builder i spoke to said just leave the cam retainer out, but that buggers the sprokets really quickly as the cam does move
Graham said:
I didnt think you could fit a vernier with a serpentine cam as it does exactly the problem you've got, fouls on the cam retainer.
Graham, that vernier wheel comes standard with the 5l engine.The center section which transmits the movement to the camshaft isn't symetrical as opposed to the toothed outer part.
Therefore, if you refit the inner ring the other way around, you don't have enough clearance between the vernier and the bolts.
Fortunately, I did just scratch the vernier's surface. Could have been a much costlier issue if I had attempted starting the engine like it was....
Graham said:
I didnt think you could fit a vernier with a serpentine cam as it does exactly the problem you've got, fouls on the cam retainer.
For that reason I use a sprocket from John eales that has multiple keyways so you can set the timing that way. also has the advantage nothing can come loose.
One engine builder i spoke to said just leave the cam retainer out, but that buggers the sprokets really quickly as the cam does move
I fitted the three way cam gear set but from memory this was reversible so that you had more variations on lining up the teeth and therefore getting the timing as near as dammit spot on.For that reason I use a sprocket from John eales that has multiple keyways so you can set the timing that way. also has the advantage nothing can come loose.
One engine builder i spoke to said just leave the cam retainer out, but that buggers the sprokets really quickly as the cam does move
Of course I could be wrong, my memory isn't what it used to be.
Just to add i used the retaining plate .
Graham said:
I didnt think you could fit a vernier with a serpentine cam as it does exactly the problem you've got, fouls on the cam retainer.
For that reason I use a sprocket from John eales that has multiple keyways so you can set the timing that way. also has the advantage nothing can come loose.
One engine builder i spoke to said just leave the cam retainer out, but that buggers the sprokets really quickly as the cam does move
I fitted the three way cam gear set but from memory this was reversible so that you had more variations on lining up the teeth and therefore getting the timing as near as dammit spot on.For that reason I use a sprocket from John eales that has multiple keyways so you can set the timing that way. also has the advantage nothing can come loose.
One engine builder i spoke to said just leave the cam retainer out, but that buggers the sprokets really quickly as the cam does move
Of course I could be wrong, my memory isn't what it used to be.
Just to add i used the retaining plate .
Edited by phazed on Monday 11th January 20:01
Calling in again collective knowledge.
I have progressed with the camshaft change and have set it up at 111° ATDC.
The TDC has been found using a dial gauge in the plug hole of cylindre 1 according to the graph here attached (from Steve Heath's Bible):
I have then taken the measurement on cam #3 from camshaft front (inlet of cylinder #1) and set it at the right value.
Then, I have checked that no colision happens on all eight piston.
Refitted the timing cover, water pump.
Now, I am trying to identify the TDC marks on the crankshaft pulley.
Using the dial gauge again, I have found a TDC which is completely different from the indent on the pulley (see attached pictures).
What I have found:
What the indent tells me:
Have you guys had a similar situation when reassembly your motor? Is such a difference normal or am I missing something again?
Thanks for your inputs.
I have progressed with the camshaft change and have set it up at 111° ATDC.
The TDC has been found using a dial gauge in the plug hole of cylindre 1 according to the graph here attached (from Steve Heath's Bible):
I have then taken the measurement on cam #3 from camshaft front (inlet of cylinder #1) and set it at the right value.
Then, I have checked that no colision happens on all eight piston.
Refitted the timing cover, water pump.
Now, I am trying to identify the TDC marks on the crankshaft pulley.
Using the dial gauge again, I have found a TDC which is completely different from the indent on the pulley (see attached pictures).
What I have found:
What the indent tells me:
Have you guys had a similar situation when reassembly your motor? Is such a difference normal or am I missing something again?
Thanks for your inputs.
Hi,
the problem is the balancer has been painted, covering all the engraved timing marks. The indent on the balancer is not TDC, it is approximately 34 degrees away from TDC. Where your pointer is aligned with the scratch in orange paint on the balancer looks about right for TDC. I would remove the balancer and strip it of paint to reveal the timing marks refit and check.
Ozstyle
the problem is the balancer has been painted, covering all the engraved timing marks. The indent on the balancer is not TDC, it is approximately 34 degrees away from TDC. Where your pointer is aligned with the scratch in orange paint on the balancer looks about right for TDC. I would remove the balancer and strip it of paint to reveal the timing marks refit and check.
Ozstyle
Yeah as Ozstyle says ignore that indent. I would littly rub with a wire brush around the area that you think is TDC. On mine it it has a -12, -6, 0, 6, 12 degree marks. I could barely make mine out as it had started to rust, but once I had cleaned it up with a brass brush it was readable.
UPDATE: idle speed too high.
Right guys..... Everything is back in its own place, the engine is timed with a strob light and it runs...! Success!
It took me three attempts to get the engine to start but it did eventually.
I've run the engine at 200rpm for 20 min in order to bed the camshaft in.
But now, my idle speed is at 1600 rpm and it won't come down.
The search function didn't return any meaningful info.
How can I get idle speed down?
Thanks
Philippe
Right guys..... Everything is back in its own place, the engine is timed with a strob light and it runs...! Success!
It took me three attempts to get the engine to start but it did eventually.
I've run the engine at 200rpm for 20 min in order to bed the camshaft in.
But now, my idle speed is at 1600 rpm and it won't come down.
The search function didn't return any meaningful info.
How can I get idle speed down?
Thanks
Philippe
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